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Top Dem picks Huntsman

ptif219 said:
You mean he is not a Washington insider that will give us more of the same we have had for the last 20 years or so
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Yes yes, hope and change from an "outsider" without much Washington insider experience who told us lack of executive experience didn't matter. This show sounds familiar.
 
While state governments across the country are rejecting or repealing onerous cap-and-trade environmental regulations, Huntsman is a climate-change Republican who backed radical emissions limits and “green job” fantasies. Just like McCain 1.0 did.

While state governments across the country follow Arizona’s immigration-enforcement model and Washington repeatedly rejects mass-amnesty programs in the face of 9 percent unemployment, Huntsman supports the costly DREAM Act, an illegal-alien bailout with a wider “path to citizenship.” Just like McCain 1.0 did.

While state governments reined in middle-class entitlement spending and Washington turned to means-testing, Huntsman turned SCHIP’s government-funded health plan for low-income children into a universal health-insurance mandate. McCain 1.0 was for SCHIP before he was against it.
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Jon Huntsman: McCain on Wheels - Michelle Malkin - National Review Online

AND he's a DREAM Act supporter?

I did not know this. That's a nail in the coffin right there.
 
ptif219 said:
You forget his spending. Cherry picking he is known as a moderate so yes he is left leaning or liberal if you prefer or he would not be called moderate. He offers nothings for conservatives just more of the same failed policies
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I don't forget his spending. The Cato institute report your own link referenced ranks him as the 5th best Governor in the country in regards to fiscal issues. Yes, they criticize his spending as a problem compared to the top people, but its like saying Greg Maddux had an attrocious fast ball and couldn't swing the bat well or saying Shaq sucks at free throws. Its true, and its a knock, but its trying to pick at something small because overall he's pretty good but you gotta find something to critique.

His spending was slightly higher than roundly regarded as conservative governor Palin and was LOWER than roundly regarded as conservative governor Pawlenty. His spending as percentage of GDP also went down during his tenure.

I'm not forgetting his spending, his spending comparitive to other "conservatives" is at best mildly questionable.

But yes, he offers nothing for conservatives. You keep saying that. I am happy to know you aren't for securing the border first, lower taxes, business friendly policies, being a staunch ally to Israel, lowering the percentage of government spending comparitive to GDP, and other such things. Happy to learn those aren't conservative issues.
 
ptif219 said:
Cain was lobbyist so he may know more that you think
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WHAAAAAT?

I thought you said he's a Washington outsider. I thought we didn't need more Washington Insiders. Yet now you're telling me he's got experience because he was the epitome of a Washington insider as a LOBBYIST.

You're going all over the place.
 
Jeezy said:
A lobbyist FOR THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY. Not really a political cause there, huh chief?

And hey, if he's a lobbyist doesn't that make him an insider? So which is it, ptif? Is he a Washington outsider or a lobbyist?

Every position the man has held relates to pizza and food. He has zero policy-making experience.
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A loobyist is not part of the washington insiders as much as they are salesman
 
Zyphlin said:
Huntsman was rated higher than both Governors running currently for the Republican nomination and the presumed candidate Palin when it comes to taxes and lowering them.

Huntsman spending was slightly higher than Palin's (1.2bil compared to 0.8bil), slightly lower than Pawlenty's (1.2bil compared to 1.5bil), and all of them fail in comparison strikingly to Romney whose states spending went up on average 0.1 billion a year under his watch.

Huntsmans GDP went up 8% per year, besting Palin's 1.5% but falling a bit behind Pawlenty's 12%. Both Huntsman and Pawlenty lowered government spending as a percent of GDP by 2% compared to when they took office, while Palin grew hers by 2%. I didn't have GDP info for Romney.

So really, unless we're calling Pawlenty someone whose not good for "lower spending" I don't see how we could say Huntsman isn't.

As far as Entitlements, Huntsman has came out in favor of the Ryan Budget plan which significantly changes one of our largest entitlement programs to make it more cost effective.
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No link I see. Keep trying but Huntman is a liberal and this country does not need another liberal that wants cap and trade and universial healthcare and will continue to spend.
 
MrVicchio said:
How can a man that supports Obamacare/UHC style healthcare and Cap and Trade be considered a fiscal conservative?
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So you're telling me putting support behind non-conservative issues a handful of times means on can not possibly be that type of conservative regardless of anything else they do?

This is your stance? Just want to make certain so I can hold you to that.

That to me, is why cannot be the candidate, I want Obamacare, GONE, I want this madness of "Cap and Trade" or other business killing greenie bull****, buried into teh ash heap of history where they belong.
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Here's my thing on Cap and trade. You're going off years old comments concerning the specific federal level cap and trade, and one thing he did at a state level. On the flip side, you're ignoring a ton of evidence suggesting that he doesn't pass legislation that kills business, but rather has a STERLING record of supporting business and promoting an environment that creates business.

The man policies grew his states GDP by I believe 8.5 billion a year, almost triple the normal growth for the U.S. His state, even with the green law he signed onto, was ranked routinely in the top 3 and at times as the number one state in the entire country to start a business in. His tax laws were considered extremely business family and he's stated and made good on the fact that economic development was one of this top goals.

To me, results and actions matter more to me than one off possibly political posturing quotes made years ago or the analysis of some random writer in the media. And the mans track record is not with KILLING business, but expanding them.
 
Zyphlin said:
Yes yes, hope and change from an "outsider" without much Washington insider experience who told us lack of executive experience didn't matter. This show sounds familiar.
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It is I want a conservative not another liberal. If you want a liberal just vote democrat
 
Zyphlin said:
I don't forget his spending. The Cato institute report your own link referenced ranks him as the 5th best Governor in the country in regards to fiscal issues. Yes, they criticize his spending as a problem compared to the top people, but its like saying Greg Maddux had an attrocious fast ball and couldn't swing the bat well or saying Shaq sucks at free throws. Its true, and its a knock, but its trying to pick at something small because overall he's pretty good but you gotta find something to critique.

His spending was slightly higher than roundly regarded as conservative governor Palin and was LOWER than roundly regarded as conservative governor Pawlenty. His spending as percentage of GDP also went down during his tenure.

I'm not forgetting his spending, his spending comparitive to other "conservatives" is at best mildly questionable.

But yes, he offers nothing for conservatives. You keep saying that. I am happy to know you aren't for securing the border first, lower taxes, business friendly policies, being a staunch ally to Israel, lowering the percentage of government spending comparitive to GDP, and other such things. Happy to learn those aren't conservative issues.
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Look at post # 102. He is a liberal keep trying but it will not work.


Huntsman's Liberal Policies as Governor Pose Challenge - FoxNews.com
 
Zyphlin said:
WHAAAAAT?

I thought you said he's a Washington outsider. I thought we didn't need more Washington Insiders. Yet now you're telling me he's got experience because he was the epitome of a Washington insider as a LOBBYIST.

You're going all over the place.
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A lobbyist is not the same as owing people for votes
 
MrVicchio said:
Jon Huntsman: McCain on Wheels - Michelle Malkin - National Review Online

AND he's a DREAM Act supporter?

I did not know this. That's a nail in the coffin right there.
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I'm sorry, but Malkin is going to have to provide some kind of evidence of this to show she's not just echo chambering. This is like the article that ptif posted earlier that claimed he was for amnesty, and then provided no proof.

I can find nothing showing Huntsman supporting the dream act other than a bunch of people essentially linking to each other stating he supports the dream act. The only two things I have of any record that he's stated about immigration are that:

He's threatened to veto a measure that would repeal in-state college tuition for the children of illegal immigrants...not, not illegal immigrant children, but children of illegals. While we may not like the law, the law now is that children born in this country to illegal immigrants are citizens, and we shouldn't be denying citizens rights granted to others based on the wrong doings of their parents.

He's also stated he hates the thought of a border fence and that it to an extent repulses him because its not consistent with the image projected by America. At the very same time though he said that situation we are in today leaves us without a choice and that we have got to secure our border before we even begin to discuss what happens with those here illegally. He thinks there's a better way then simply sending 12 million people back as the only option, but that we must secure the border FIRST.

Those are the only two actual views he's publicly stated or legislative action he's actually taken. In my research thus far I have found ZERO quotes from him directed towards support of amnesty nor the dream act.

If Malkin has some kind of actual quote or something to link to other than this echo chamber ffect going around I'd love to hear it.
 
ptif219 said:
A lobbyist is not the same as owing people for votes
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Weren't you accusing me earlier of moving the message?

First it was that he wasn't a washington insider, now its that he doesn't owe people votes?
 
Ive got a thought for you, if Huntsman wins and we get more conservative legislators in the Senate and possibly the house (house unlikely, Senate probably), Huntsman will get nothing but conservative proposals. I dont see him backing away from those kinds of bills and I do think he will appoint conservative judges and rein in things like EPA and ATF and possibly make some major needed changes at treasury and the Fed.

With Huntsman, I think the legislature will set the agenda but executive regulation needs to be trimmed a ton, I think Huntsman can and will do that.
The healthcare thing doesnt thrill me, however.
 
Zyphlin said:
I can find nothing showing Huntsman supporting the dream act other than a bunch of people essentially linking to each other stating he supports the dream act.
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...but he also said the following.

"I hate the thought of a fence on the border. As an American, the thought of a fence to some extent repulses me, because it is not consistent with the image that we projected to the rest of the world. But the situation is such today that I don't think we have a choice, and before we begin the conversation of processing 11 or 12 million undocumented workers, we've got to secure the border. There's got to be an alternative rather than sending people back. That's unrealistic," he said.
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So wait...it's possible to have MORE THAN ONE SOLUTION TO THE IMMIGRATION ISSUE? Has the world gone mad?!?:roll:
 
ptif219 said:
It is I want a conservative not another liberal. If you want a liberal just vote democrat
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Actually I want a fiscal conservative, so I'll be voting for a fiscal conservative in the primary thank you very much. If you don't like the nomination, go vote third party just as I will if I'm not happy with the nominee.

Sorry ptif, your decree of who is or isn't a liberal doesn't mean jack ****.
 
Zyphlin said:
So you're telling me putting support behind non-conservative issues a handful of times means on can not possibly be that type of conservative regardless of anything else they do?

This is your stance? Just want to make certain so I can hold you to that.
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A "couple of things"?
These are BIG things Z, not little things. Notice, not once have I brought up his gay marriage stance.

Cap and trade, that's huge. His "government run healthcare" stance, that's huge. His support for the DREAM ACT, that's huge. These aren't small issues Z.

Zyphlin said:
Here's my thing on Cap and trade. You're going off years old comments concerning the specific federal level cap and trade, and one thing he did at a state level. On the flip side, you're ignoring a ton of evidence suggesting that he doesn't pass legislation that kills business, but rather has a STERLING record of supporting business and promoting an environment that creates business.
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Years old?
From the story: " 'It hasn't worked,' he says now, ‘and our economy's in a different place than five years ago.' Until it recovers, he adds, ‘this isn't the moment' to keep trying."

Huntsman may not be particularly troubled by the change, though, because he is in good company in the GOP field: His fellow former Republican governors have done the same.

Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney similarly supported a regional cap-and-trade system in New England, but he backed away from it in his recent book, "No Apology: Believe in America." Former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty also has offered a mea culpa on the issue, which he volunteered again at last week's miniature Republican debate in South Carolina.
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RealClearPolitics - Huntsman Backs Away From Cap and Trade

He was for it, then the economy tanked, now he's against it.. till the economy picks back up.
Zyphlin said:
The man policies grew his states GDP by I believe 8.5 billion a year, almost triple the normal growth for the U.S. His state, even with the green law he signed onto, was ranked routinely in the top 3 and at times as the number one state in the entire country to start a business in. His tax laws were considered extremely business family and he's stated and made good on the fact that economic development was one of this top goals.
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I applaud his tax stance, and think he has the right on it there.
BUT...

Unfortunately, his record is not nearly as good on the spending side of the ledger. During his time in office, he proposed spending hikes in excess of 6 percent annually, well above the growth in Utahans’ personal income. In fact, measured in terms of percentage growth, Huntsman was one of the biggest-spending governors in the nation.
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Scoring Huntsman - Michael Tanner - National Review Online

Zyphlin said:
To me, results and actions matter more to me than one off possibly political posturing quotes made years ago or the analysis of some random writer in the media. And the mans track record is not with KILLING business, but expanding them.
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I look at the man's actions and his stated intent. He signed up on Cap and Trade, then he says it's not the right time for it. Ergo, he's FOR Cap and Trade, just not right now.
He made some real tax changes, but was, a big spender.

He supports Government run healthcare, and I cannot back a candidate that does, nor do I support someone that backs the DREAM Act.


I bring these links up merely to show a difference of opinion on his record, you see sunshine and rainbows, I see duplicity.
 
Jeezy said:
...but he also said the following.

So wait...it's possible to have MORE THAN ONE SOLUTION TO THE IMMIGRATION ISSUE? Has the world gone mad?!?:roll:
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Can't see the video, which may be why I couldn't find anything as I've been having to look at writing. What'd he say in the video?

And I agree, we can't just deport 12 million people. It'd be far to costly and require to much of an expansion of government to manage it.

However, we could absolutely as we secure the border and after ramp up our enforcement of the laws, crack down on businesses employing them, and pass laws that limit their access to public services all of which discourages their staying in this country. We can create a more streamlined and simple immigration process and work visa program to lower the available jobs to them and incentive to come over. Then if we are actually enforcing our laws and we've actually secured our borders and we've actually reworked our policy then we can possibly look at a path to citizenship of some sort for those still here.

And for anyone that claims "OMG YOU CAN'T BE CONSERVATIVE IF YOU SUPPORT THAT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM" I do hope I never hear the word Reagan ever leave their mouth when talking about conservatism.
 
Zyphlin said:
I'm sorry, but Malkin is going to have to provide some kind of evidence of this to show she's not just echo chambering. This is like the article that ptif posted earlier that claimed he was for amnesty, and then provided no proof.

I can find nothing showing Huntsman supporting the dream act other than a bunch of people essentially linking to each other stating he supports the dream act. The only two things I have of any record that he's stated about immigration are that:

He's threatened to veto a measure that would repeal in-state college tuition for the children of illegal immigrants...not, not illegal immigrant children, but children of illegals. While we may not like the law, the law now is that children born in this country to illegal immigrants are citizens, and we shouldn't be denying citizens rights granted to others based on the wrong doings of their parents.

He's also stated he hates the thought of a border fence and that it to an extent repulses him because its not consistent with the image projected by America. At the very same time though he said that situation we are in today leaves us without a choice and that we have got to secure our border before we even begin to discuss what happens with those here illegally. He thinks there's a better way then simply sending 12 million people back as the only option, but that we must secure the border FIRST.

Those are the only two actual views he's publicly stated or legislative action he's actually taken. In my research thus far I have found ZERO quotes from him directed towards support of amnesty nor the dream act.

If Malkin has some kind of actual quote or something to link to other than this echo chamber ffect going around I'd love to hear it.
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Check link on post 102

They're likely to cringe at others, including his support of cap and trade as a response to climate change, his backing of civil unions for gay couples, and his support for in-state tuition for illegal immigrants.


Read more: Huntsman's Liberal Policies as Governor Pose Challenge - FoxNews.com
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Zyphlin said:
Weren't you accusing me earlier of moving the message?

First it was that he wasn't a washington insider, now its that he doesn't owe people votes?
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A lobbyists is not the same as the lifelong insider politicians but keep trying
 
Zyphlin said:
Can't see the video, which may be why I couldn't find anything as I've been having to look at writing. What'd he say in the video?

And I agree, we can't just deport 12 million people. It'd be far to costly and require to much of an expansion of government to manage it.

However, we could absolutely as we secure the border and after ramp up our enforcement of the laws, crack down on businesses employing them, and pass laws that limit their access to public services all of which discourages their staying in this country. We can create a more streamlined and simple immigration process and work visa program to lower the available jobs to them and incentive to come over. Then if we are actually enforcing our laws and we've actually secured our borders and we've actually reworked our policy then we can possibly look at a path to citizenship of some sort for those still here.

And for anyone that claims "OMG YOU CAN'T BE CONSERVATIVE IF YOU SUPPORT THAT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM" I do hope I never hear the word Reagan ever leave their mouth when talking about conservatism.
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Do you know what the DREAM ACT is Z? Go look it up. It's a horrible mess is what it is.

I will note that not once have I ever said he isn't conservative, I've said his positions are not the right ones in areas that matter. Quit with the strawman please Z.
 
Zyphlin said:
Actually I want a fiscal conservative, so I'll be voting for a fiscal conservative in the primary thank you very much. If you don't like the nomination, go vote third party just as I will if I'm not happy with the nominee.

Sorry ptif, your decree of who is or isn't a liberal doesn't mean jack ****.
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You are the one claiming to be conservative but defending the liberal Huntsman and will not even accept Fox news. If Fox is wrong show me proof

Romney and Huntsman on Illegal Aliens | Center for Immigration Studies
 
Zyphlin said:
Can't see the video, which may be why I couldn't find anything as I've been having to look at writing. What'd he say in the video?
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He says, "I support the DREAM act." Verbatim.
 
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