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Tennessee Trumps Wiconsin: Kills Teacher Collective Bargaining. Dead.

Conservatives: "Yaa workers rights being thrown out the window! Who needs worker say in the workplace!?"
 
Goshin said:
By restore discipline I mean put the teachers and the Principal back in charge of the students. Restore the authority of teachers to beat that ass as necessary. The ones who are past caring, past fixing and won't stop disrupting other's ability to learn... permanent expulsion and that without delay.
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Nope - not the answer. No one's laying a hand on my children but ME. I birthed them from tween my loins. . . they didn't.
 
zimmer said:
Hooray!
Step by step, state by state... The ball of sobriety is rolling.
Along the way we need to eliminate the DoE.

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Union power should be limited. Teachers are no more special than any other employee in this country. I support peoples ability to join a union. That said it should not be mandatory to pay union dues or join a union and teachers should just as easily fired as any other employee on the planet.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Conservatives: "Yaa workers rights being thrown out the window! Who needs worker say in the workplace!?"
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This bill does not destroy someone's ability to join a union. And seeing how most places do not have unions workers rights are not being squashed. Some of the union's power might be stripped but that is only because the unions caused this themselves.
 
jamesrage said:
Teachers are no more special than any other employee in this country.
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Except that they care for your children and shape their minds for 8 hours a day.

That makes them just like the cashier at 7/11?
 
Misterveritis said:
Why, in your opinion, would that occur?

Are shoes made only for the rich? Are clothes made only for the rich? Is food made only for the rich? Are cell phones made only for the rich? Are TV sets made only for the rich? Are automobiles made only for the rich?

Or can one find a variety of goods, and services to meet each individual's needs and income? Please explain to me why you think education would be any different than all of the other goods and services that are provided in an astonishing range of prices and features?
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None of those things are as valuable as an education.
 
FilmFestGuy said:
Except that they care for your children and shape their minds for 8 hours a day.

That makes them just like the cashier at 7/11?
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Yes and just like a 7/11 cashier they are paid to do a service.If they screw up on providing that service they should be easily fired and replaced. They are not chosen by God, they are not saints nor are they irreplaceable. They can and should be easily fired and replaceable just like any other employee on the planet. A day care worker takes care of kids for eight hours a day, a baby sitter takes care of kids for a few hours or more a day. A community college teaches young adults. A private school teacher teaches and cares for kids eight hours a day. They should not be put on some pedestal
 
jamesrage said:
Yes and just like a 7/11 cashier they are paid to do a service.If they screw up on providing that service they should be easily fired and replaced. They are not chosen by God, they are not saints nor are they irreplaceable. They can and should be easily fired and replaceable just like any other employee on the planet. A day care worker takes care of kids for eight hours a day, a baby sitter takes care of kids for a few hours or more a day. A community college teaches young adults. A private school teacher teaches and cares for kids eight hours a day. They should not be put on some pedestal
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And if each parent paid a teacher as much as they paid a babysitter per hour, a teacher would make about $150,000 a year.

And, yes, if they screw up, they should be fired. That part, I'll agree with. But continuing to undervalue the work they do is only going to decrease the quality of people we have teaching our children.

If you think your staff sucks, do you try to replace them by offering their replacements even less incentive to take the job?
 
DemonMyst said:
If parents want to send their kids to public schools.. They will support it.. Otherwise they can pay for private school.. Goshin is so correct!! Our children today have no discipline.. I remember the days of a big thick paddle hanging on the wall.. Having your hand smacked with a ruler.. Parent't aren't teaching their children discipline at home.. They need to learn it somewhere..
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Slap a child's hand with a ruler? You and what army? Our dismal Chicago schools are war zones. Until our system is willing to lose their per-pupil subsidy for these troublemakers and throw their asses outa' school...set up armed perimeters and get the good kids safely to and from school...the only thing ruler-slappin's gunna do is turn those slapped into rabid dogs and require hazard pay for teachers.

Motivation and positive reinforcement, Demon, not punishment.
 
FilmFestGuy said:
And if each parent paid a teacher as much as they paid a babysitter per hour, a teacher would make about $150,000 a year.
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You must have some pretty expensive baby sitters where you live. Even if you paid a teacher 20 dollars an hour for 8 hours a day,5 days a week, for a year that doesn't even come close to 50 thousand a year.

Of course 20 dollars an hour is generous.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061116104426AA8qy91
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_money_does_a_babysitter_make_an_hour

And, yes, if they screw up, they should be fired. That part, I'll agree with. But continuing to undervalue the work they do is only going to decrease the quality of people we have teaching our children.
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I do not undervalue the work anyone does. I do not give a **** if they are teacher, fireman, convenience store clerk, garbage man, septic sewer cleaner, gardener/landscaper, police officer. What I do not do is put someone on a pedestal.


If you think your staff sucks, do you try to replace them by offering their replacements even less incentive to take the job?
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Telling the repacements they can be just as easily fired anyone else is not less of an incentive to take a job.
 
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MaggieD said:
Slap a child's hand with a ruler? You and what army? Our dismal Chicago schools are war zones. Until our system is willing to lose their per-pupil subsidy for these troublemakers and throw their asses outa' school...set up armed perimeters and get the good kids safely to and from school...the only thing ruler-slappin's gunna do is turn those slapped into rabid dogs and require hazard pay for teachers.

Motivation and positive reinforcement, Demon, not punishment.
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That's why you start with kindergarten and work your way up that way kids see this as the norm.
 
jamesrage said:
Yes and just like a 7/11 cashier they are paid to do a service.If they screw up on providing that service they should be easily fired and replaced. They are not chosen by God, they are not saints nor are they irreplaceable. They can and should be easily fired and replaceable just like any other employee on the planet. A day care worker takes care of kids for eight hours a day, a baby sitter takes care of kids for a few hours or more a day. A community college teaches young adults. A private school teacher teaches and cares for kids eight hours a day. They should not be put on some pedestal
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I'm gonna go ahead and say people who shape the nation (teachers) and defend it (police and firefighters) are a little more special than 7/11 workers. It's pretty ridiculous that you don't realize the importance of and respect given to a job increase according the influence they have on society.
 
I realize that its not that big of an issue but your baby sitter figure is skewed because it does not account for the sheer number of children that a teacher deals with. If those quoted prices in your links are for, say, 3 children in an hour at $10 dollars, why would it not be $100 an hour for 30 children in the classroom? At 8 hours a day, for 5 days a week, thats $4000. If a teacher works 35 weeks in a year after breaks, they would deserve $140,000 a year for "babysitting".
 
zimmer said:
You look back to the one room school house and how well educated those kids were. I wish I could find a test from around the turn of the century for an 8th grade class. My bet is most grads today couldn't pass it. The reason is precisely as described above.

No teachers unions then, no opulent school, no BS classes... just a room full of kids from multiple classes, a teacher that had control and expected results, and a three-holer out back. And if the kid was being a jerk, the parents most likely would have swatted him one, allowed the teacher to too and told him to knock it off.

Here is a test for 8th grade grads in 1895:
Dumbing Down: Then And Now
and for transparency: snopes.com: 1895 Exam

... and then we have this today:


Funny if it weren't so sad.

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Teachers unions are a wonderful thing, along with ED.
 
Misterveritis said:
Next important big step. Get the government completely out of the business of education. It is extra-constitutional. It is dangerous.
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I dont think it is dangerous...just not efficient. Prior to NCLB the driving factor was keepingt butts in seats so the state could get that federal doughnut. After NCLB the schools ignored the intent and taught to the test. Teachers have been forced to deal with disrespectful little cretins that have no business being in school. They teach to the lowest common denominator. Half their time is spent on special interesst and social indoctrination programs. Little Johnny cant do basic math but at least he can tell you which month is celebrated for each nationality or about Jimmy's two mommies. **** teachers are protected byt unions. In New York and California they STILL have teachers on paid furlough while they are being investigated for improper conduct. And people want to whine and cry because states have finally come to the realization we simply cant afford to continue to pay for a failed system.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Conservatives: "Yaa workers rights being thrown out the window! Who needs worker say in the workplace!?"
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Public sector union bloodsuckers? Isn't that the real issue? No business owner wants to deal with union members and union thuggery. And the taxpayer should never be subjected to public sector unions. Fortunately we are seeing some states take back the state from the unions and the democrats.
 
VanceMack said:
I dont think it is dangerous...just not efficient.
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Please help me with this. Where can I find this authority in the US Constitution? Which section? Which paragraph? Which sentence?
I think we should return to Constitutional government.
 
Misterveritis said:
Public sector union bloodsuckers? Isn't that the real issue? No business owner wants to deal with union members and union thuggery. And the taxpayer should never be subjected to public sector unions. Fortunately we are seeing some states take back the state from the unions and the democrats.
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Doesn't getting rid of Teachers Unions just increase the power of the government? I thought Conservatives were against government having more power.
 
Misterveritis said:
Public sector union bloodsuckers? Isn't that the real issue? No business owner wants to deal with union members and union thuggery. And the taxpayer should never be subjected to public sector unions. Fortunately we are seeing some states take back the state from the unions and the democrats.
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Taxpayers exchange taxes for labor - you have no right to what public workers do with their own property (their money).
 
rocket88 said:
Doesn't getting rid of Teachers Unions just increase the power of the government? I thought Conservatives were against government having more power.
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This is why it is so important to understand the basics. Unions make deals with politicians to increase their pay and benefits. We call these politicians democrats. The union members are paid with tax payer dollars. Union members pay mandatory dues to union thugs, I mean leaders. The unions then use the taxpayer dollars to help politicians get elected. We call those politicians democrats. The democrats make deals with the unions to increase their pay and benefits. The union members are paid with taxpayer dollars...
So eliminating the unions is like cleaning the rats nest out from under your house.
 
theplaydrive said:
Taxpayers exchange taxes for labor - you have no right to what public workers do with their own property (their money).
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What? The government forces me to labor for the benefit of others two days out of every week. Every week. When Union thugs and democrat thug get together for the benefit of themselves to the detriment of the taxpayer then it is time for the unions to go.

Why do you think unions and union movements were so important to the Soviet Union, and democrats alike? Isn't because they stand against merit and achievement?
 
Misterveritis said:
What? The government forces me to labor for the benefit of others two days out of every week. Every week. When Union thugs and democrat thug get together for the benefit of themselves to the detriment of the taxpayer then it is time for the unions to go.
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1. What do you mean the government forces you to labor?
2. Taxpayers exchange taxes for labor - you have no right to tell public workers what to do with their private property.

Why do you think unions and union movements were so important to the Soviet Union, and democrats alike? Isn't because they stand against merit and achievement?
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No. I suggest you study the history of unions in this country.
 
rocket88 said:
Doesn't getting rid of Teachers Unions just increase the power of the government? I thought Conservatives were against government having more power.
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over the populace yes.


in making public workers accountable for their actions no.
 
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