• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

A gay teen describes her experience at a Utah brainwashing facility

These subhuman vermin need to die slowly, and their names need to be forgotten.
 
An interesting story based on her account.

Assuming this were true, it doesn't really do much but stir emotions and anger. If true, then yes that is unfortunate for her.

Then again, we all use our own accounts and the accounts of others to indirectly support and advance our political ideas.
 
MistressNomad said:
I love when people try to say we don't persecute gay people in this society. Stories like this break my heart and make me wonder how these people can live with themselves.
Click to expand...

Just because theres no other way to put it, anybody that says that or thinks that is an absolutle ignorant, clueless, blind moron. :D
 
Several things need to be said. First, the facility she was at was run by World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. They have a long record of being subject to lawsuits, most of which(but not all) don't succeed. The facility itself is Cross Creek Programs. I can find no evidence yet that either targets being gay as a reason to work with a child.

The report is simply her word. Without some sort of backing, it really is impossible to say that she was sent there due to her sexuality. Further, she does not actually say it was for that, she just kinda thought it might be. It does not pay to jump to conclusions however.

Lastly: that is painful reading, and if even only a small part of it is true, I admit to wishing bad things to happen to those who perpetrated it, those who turned a blind eye, those who defend the program, and most of all to parents who would actually put their children through it.
 
As Redress said, we don't know for sure.

Do you think all accounts are true and never exaggerated?

I don't. Do you?
 
Interesting. I dealt with that particular Cross Creek Program about 15 years ago... at least it seems to be the program that I recall dealing with. Admittedly, this was 15 years ago, and I have only a very vague memory of it, and it certainly could have changed, but I remember it being a very solid residential boarding school.
 
Reading over Cross Creek's website, I am struck how vague it is. No details on treatment, no details on what they treat, not much of anything. I find that worrying though possibly understandable.
 
Redress said:
Reading over Cross Creek's website, I am struck how vague it is. No details on treatment, no details on what they treat, not much of anything. I find that worrying though possibly understandable.
Click to expand...

That's what I remember about them, way back. I watched their video, and it was vague, too. I saw the client a few years later... after she left, and she had only good things to say, though.
 
Redress said:
Several things need to be said. First, the facility she was at was run by World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. They have a long record of being subject to lawsuits, most of which(but not all) don't succeed. The facility itself is Cross Creek Programs. I can find no evidence yet that either targets being gay as a reason to work with a child.

The report is simply her word. Without some sort of backing, it really is impossible to say that she was sent there due to her sexuality. Further, she does not actually say it was for that, she just kinda thought it might be. It does not pay to jump to conclusions however.

Lastly: that is painful reading, and if even only a small part of it is true, I admit to wishing bad things to happen to those who perpetrated it, those who turned a blind eye, those who defend the program, and most of all to parents who would actually put their children through it.
Click to expand...

The fact that it's been through so many lawsuits provides reason for suspicion in itself. And the fact that those didn't succeed doesn't mean it didn't happen.

There are endless reports of child molestation and other abuses in The Family (a Christian cult). I actually met someone who escaped The Family, which prompted me to look into them.

Yet they never seem to get pinned. And in fact, they run the C Street Center that a lot of politicians frequent. Including some, like Ensign, accused and/or convicted of some pretty serious crimes.

Is their political power why they keep escaping scrutiny? Probably. I just find it hard to believe hundreds of cases of such abuse are all lies.
 
If anything in that report is factual, it is utterly appalling. Teenagers are emotionally vulnerable and insecure at the best of times, and gay teenagers are tormented by their own feelings of guilt and shame heaped upon them by a cold, judgmental society. My heart goes out to this child.
 
MistressNomad said:
The fact that it's been through so many lawsuits provides reason for suspicion in itself. And the fact that those didn't succeed doesn't mean it didn't happen.

There are endless reports of child molestation and other abuses in The Family (a Christian cult). I actually met someone who escaped The Family, which prompted me to look into them.

Yet they never seem to get pinned. And in fact, they run the C Street Center that a lot of politicians frequent. Including some, like Ensign, accused and/or convicted of some pretty serious crimes.

Is their political power why they keep escaping scrutiny? Probably. I just find it hard to believe hundreds of cases of such abuse are all lies.
Click to expand...

I certainly did not mean to imply that there was not strong evidence that Cross Creek and WWASPS are vile organizations. However, strong evidence is not the same thing as conclusive evidence.
 
Cross Creek is a place for troubled teens. . . I got the feeling that this person still has serious issues they need to seek help for. Naturally, we're reading this person's interpretation of the experiences through their view - not the view of the parent or others so questions like "what problems were present to necessitate enrolling you in Cross Creek" go without answer via this link and from this person's story of events.
 
After reading this article I think I'm a bit more inclined to believe the girl in the OP's link....

When asked about his success, and about the criticism surrounding the school network that he created, he makes reference to his fervent Mormon faith.

God is the key to his accomplishments, he says, and Satan is stirring up his foes.

"We're here getting kids off drugs and other evils," Lichfield said during a rare interview at the headquarters of the World Wide Assn. of Specialty Programs and Schools. "We're here connecting kids with their families. We're here getting kids in touch with their higher source.

"Do I believe, being a God-believing person, that the adversary to all good is going to sit back and let that happen without a major unleashing of dark forces? No, I don't."
Click to expand...

LA Times ~ Key to His Schools' Success? It's God, Founder Says

Sorry but anyone that speaks like this (in an interview no less, where thousands...if not millions of people will view it) you can be sure that they transfer thier beliefs into everything that they start/do. And all that implies.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Cross Creek is a place for troubled teens. . . I got the feeling that this person still has serious issues they need to seek help for. Naturally, we're reading this person's interpretation of the experiences through their view - not the view of the parent or others so questions like "what problems were present to necessitate enrolling you in Cross Creek" go without answer via this link and from this person's story of events.
Click to expand...

You cannot be serious
This incident disgusts me. Although I didn't read the entire story, I did read parts of it, and made me wondering why these organizations are still existent
 
Numerous former students or their parents have filed lawsuits against WWASPS, its personnel, or individual schools. Most have been settled out of court or dismissed for procedural reasons. For example, a 2005 lawsuit filed in California on behalf of more than 20 plaintiffs was dismissed because the judge found that California lacked jurisdiction. In June 2007, Utah attorney Thomas M. Burton told a reporter that six suits he had filed against WWASPS on behalf of his clients had been dismissed on procedural grounds.
Click to expand...

So apparently these guys are good at arguing their way out of ever having to defend themselves in the first place.

On August 31, 2007, Randall Hinton was convicted of one count each of third degree assault and false imprisonment, for mistreating students at the WWASP-affiliated Royal Gorge Academy, of which he was manager and co-founder.
Click to expand...

...But apparently they haven't escaped them all.

The fact that most of the cases haven't been dismissed due to the weakness of the case itself makes me further suspicious.

World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apparently the organization has closed down, but still technically exists until they finish squirming out of all their lawsuits. :roll:
 
Last edited:
John McCAin was tortured..

Does anyone know for sure??

What motive does this girl have to lie?? While I believe in the principle of innocent until proven guilty.. I don't think we should blow off her report as untrue and do nothing.. I mean based on the logic of some of you.. Why on earth is a witness even valueable in court.. Because you just don't know for sure!!
 
Proud South Korean said:
You cannot be serious
This incident disgusts me. Although I didn't read the entire story, I did read parts of it, and made me wondering why these organizations are still existent
Click to expand...

Without any information on this person's life and situation other than their blog entry I cannot possibly draw a deep conclusion about the validity, facts, truth or real story - I side with parents when the child in question is possibly *really* messed up.

For all we know this person's making *everything up* beginning to end just for ****s and giggles.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Without any information on this person's life and situation other than their blog entry I cannot possibly draw a deep conclusion about the validity, facts, truth or real story - I side with parents when the child in question is possibly *really* messed up.

For all we know this person's making *everything up* beginning to end just for ****s and giggles.
Click to expand...


Certainly there seems to be some reason to be suspicious of WWASP and Cross Creek's methods, due to all the lawsuits... but forming an opinion based on one account by an anonymous and admittedly troubled teen on the internet would probably be rather premature judgement.

I find it particularly hard to believe that she was led through an airport with a belt around her chest and an "escort" towing her along by it, without a cop or security noticing and having a problem with that.

If her account is accurate, it certainly does sound very harsh, yes. I wouldn't think that most parents would resort to something so extreme, though, unless their teen was literally self-destructing before their eyes.

Hard to know what to think about it.
 
I've read other accounts over the years of other places like Cross Creek, where gay teens are sent to be "de-gayed". The experiences they suffer through are equally harsh and degrading. Too much of this country still sees homosexuality as a defect to be cured, and causes tremendous harm to these poor kids in acting on their own petty fears. Gay teens are "troubled" because the culture in which they live brings down so much trouble upon them.
 
Considering some of the horror stories I've heard when working with our local stonewall youth program or teen council, this isn't that shocking.
 
To judge without facts, and let your biases be your eyes... To make political claims based off an unproven scenario...

...how grand that must be.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom