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Democrat scores upset in Medicare-focused House race

I don't use the police in your city. Nor do the overwhelming majority of Americans.

When criminals are taken off the street everyone gains. We all use police.

Safe water isn't a joke. When was the last time someone in America died of water poisoning that wasn't from a backyard well? It may not be the best of the best, but it is safe. People die all the time in 3rd world countries from undrinkable water.

The water is filled with poisons that they have to measure just so. If they do it wrong, they basically have to turn the water off until they fix the balance. There is no way to know if they have the measurements right or if we should be dealing with the chemicals at all.

The infrastructure requires for phone and internet connections to the extent we have now is enormous. Defunding it would leave vast areas of the country without any sort of connection. They couldn't call the police if they tried.

Why is that? Are you saying that the private companies are running businesses they can't afford? Why should they exist if that is so? Shouldn't they be pushing something they can afford to provide?

I didn't fail at anything. Unsafe drinking water, no crime deterence, no education, and no medicine = the standard mode of operation for a 3rd world country.

They are conditions that are present in third would countries not what makes them a third world country.
 
- Nope. A city or state like what you're proposing would be pretty isolated. Makes no difference to me.

- That testing is WHY the water is safe. We do have a way of knowing, which is whether or not people get sick and die from it. And they don't.

- No. I'm saying they couldn't afford it if they had to support the entire infrastructure.

- I never claimed it was cause or affect for a country being undeveloped. Just that it is the standard mode of operation.
 
- Nope. A city or state like what you're proposing would be pretty isolated. Makes no difference to me.

Why would it be isolated? If money for infrastructure disappeared other solutions would pop up.

- That testing is WHY the water is safe. We do have a way of knowing, which is whether or not people get sick and die from it. And they don't.

That is measuring on if the measurements you use now kill people as we speak, but it doesn't deal with long term effects. Which is part in figuring out if something is safe or not.

- No. I'm saying they couldn't afford it if they had to support the entire infrastructure.

The infrastructure model is still broken and needs serious reconsidering, Right? Why are tax payers paying to help a business with a failed business model? For self benefit? Wouldn't it better to not prop up businesses to start out with so they can create what we wish? It seems to me that all it does is further the need for government involvement in the situation, when we could of just accepted it as a bad idea and waited for a better more stable solution. What cellphones should of taught the country when dealing with these things is that these kind of situations are temporary and things move on pretty quickly.

- I never claimed it was cause or affect for a country being undeveloped. Just that it is the standard mode of operation.

So why does it matter? Just because something is present in a certain condition that is brought about by other actions and reasons just means what exactly? Why mention it? A country deals with wealth, wealth brings about caring for your life and conditions. When it is rich, people care for the environment and each other, when its not everyone is trying to get by and will do anything to do it. Sadly people take things to far in rich countries and end up back at the beginning...but that is the loop.
 
Why would it be isolated? If money for infrastructure disappeared other solutions would pop up.

Because such a society would have nothing to offer. The only interaction we would have is sending you aid. You can't compete in the world we live in without some sort of public pooling. You drop off the list of competitive nations immediately.

That is measuring on if the measurements you use now kill people as we speak, but it doesn't deal with long term effects. Which is part in figuring out if something is safe or not.

Time does. Time says our water is safe. Even if everything in it isn't the best thing in the world for us, it's a hell of a lot better than unclean water.

The infrastructure model is still broken and needs serious reconsidering, Right? Why are tax payers paying to help a business with a failed business model? For self benefit? Wouldn't it better to not prop up businesses to start out with so they can create what we wish? It seems to me that all it does is further the need for government involvement in the situation, when we could of just accepted it as a bad idea and waited for a better more stable solution. What cellphones should of taught the country when dealing with these things is that these kind of situations are temporary and things move on pretty quickly.

You don't get how this works. First of all, communication systems started out as a one- option system - Bell. Private business bought parts of the network. They pay their taxes for that system too, and they improve and build on top of the government-supported system. All of this they are capable of sustaining. There is no problem. Second, I don't think it is broken. I just think that governments should use all of the money they collect for infrastructure ON infrastructure. If they did, we would have no problems. Because we actually do collect enough money for it. Again, there is no problem. It's a great system. People choose their service, based on their needs and location, and the government is basically the ground work and border control making sure these systems can work together. It's just that the tax money for it is being re-directed into other things. It shouldn't be. That is the only problem.

So why does it matter? Just because something is present in a certain condition that is brought about by other actions and reasons just means what exactly? Why mention it? A country deals with wealth, wealth brings about caring for your life and conditions. When it is rich, people care for the environment and each other, when its not everyone is trying to get by and will do anything to do it. Sadly people take things to far in rich countries and end up back at the beginning...but that is the loop.

It matters because that is he kind of society you are asking for. Obviously you don't want to live in it, but everyone else should?

Actually, no, historically people don't care for each other. What you are claiming is just not reality. You can wish it to be rainbows and butterflies all you like, but it isn't. Heavily deregulated countries are poor, violent, uneducated, and have terrible standards of living. Pretty much universally.

Notice how every single developed country has an organized and fairly strong code of regulation. Much stronger than what you seem to be ok with. The kind of thing you seem to be ok with is what 3rd world countries have.

I know it looks good on paper, but try looking at it in reality.
 
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Because such a society would have nothing to offer. The only interaction we would have is sending you aid. You can't compete in the world we live in without some sort of public pooling. You drop off the list of competitive nations immediately.

Business would come and things would get better. We would beat everyone on the list.


Time does. Time says our water is safe. Even if everything in it isn't the best thing in the world for us, it's a hell of a lot better than unclean water.

Not really. Questions have been raised by connections between the water and things like the raising of cancer in the country.

You don't get how this works. First of all, communication systems started out as a one- option system - Bell. Private business bought parts of the network. They pay their taxes for that system too, and they improve and build on top of the government-supported system.

No, I understand that very well. However, when they sold the parts they were no longer government, but private, and since private companies can't possibility work the system without government help. All it really means is the system is badly planned.

It matters because that is he kind of society you are asking for. Obviously you don't want to live in it, but everyone else should?

Why wouldn't I live in it? If I ask for something I generally want it. Why ask for it if I didn't?

Actually, no, historically people don't care for each other. What you are claiming is just not reality. You can wish it to be rainbows and butterflies all you like, but it isn't.

What I meaning is that people will care for people once their concerns are dealt with. This is proven by the generality of people in rich countries where the poverty level is low. You are looking for a solution that meets your qualifications and I never said it did such. Will they all care? No, but I never said they would. I was saying is that people care when their times are well, its them first, and then everyone else.

Heavily deregulated countries are poor, violent, uneducated, and have terrible standards of living. Pretty much universally.

Which is mostly caused by the government and lack of wealth, not the lack of what you talk about.

Notice how every single developed country has an organized and fairly strong code of regulation. Much stronger than what you seem to be ok with. The kind of thing you seem to be ok with is what 3rd world countries have.

Regulation equals less freedom by the very definition. Less economic freedom can't possibly lead to a better world. It just leads to an illusion of one. You can get many of the same results though simple laws and courts and that is something I can agree with.

I know it looks good on paper, but try looking at it in reality.

I think I am. What I support has never been done and you comparing it to a third would country is not accurate.

..and isn't this entire post of yours moving the goal post a bit?
 
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History says you're wrong. Every country on earth says you're wrong. Why do you think you're right? You haven't explained it.

These questions about water are raised, but no study with decent methodology proves true harm. Most of the places these questions are coming from are tinfoil hat-wearers who believe it's a government mind control plot.

Private industry existing atop goverment infrastructure is the universal rule. It's not badly planned - it's necessary in a fast-paced, highly competitive, highly communicative society. Every company's land, plumbing, communication infrustrcture, roads they use for transport, etc, is all built on a government platform. They can't exist in a meaningful capacity without it because fractured industry and landscape does not work in a developed country. It's not competitive.

There is no country that I am aware of that is largely de-regulated where poverty levels are low. Please find one and correct me if I am wrong. Qualifications for this include private infrastructure and governance. You can claim it all you want, but history books and the world economy disagree. All evidence says that what happens is that a tiny percentage get rich, and the vast majority become destitutely poor.

There is balance in all things. Communications companies actually have tons of freedom to innovate and add features and control pricing since they don't have the worry about the ground work. There is nothing wrong with the groundwork. It goes everywhere. So they get to cover as much as of that as they desire to aim for, in whatever way they aim to. The free market decides who is best.

And here's where we get to the overarching point. When the basics, the questions of survival, are taken care of, the freedom for human innovation is limitless. People don't have to spend all day worrying about how they're going to eat, or if they'll freeze to death at night (though unfortunately some still do in America - funnily enough, the rate of this depth of poverty is lower in more regulated countries).

My goal post has not move. I have been consistently rebutting your basless and fanciful claims. You say you think it will just be utopia (without giving me any reason other than that you think it), yet I can't think of a single example in history of your kind of government leading to that. And certainly not in modern history where competitiveness depends on connectivity and assured thresholds of education.
 
What I support has never been done and you comparing it to a third world country is not accurate.

The reality is that individuals who satisfy their lower order needs e.g., survival, aspire toward progressively higher order ones. That is human nature. It is no accident that societies that migrate from little more than an existential struggle also evolve toward policies whose goals extend beyond mere survival. It is no accident that the arrangement you suggest has never been implemented.

Societies have concluded that government should provide certain social welfare functions, the major differences being how extensive (can be a problem if they grow to unsustainable levels financially and in terms of administration) and in what fashion (can also be a problem e.g., the pay-as-you go design is inherently flawed in the face of demographic shift toward a relatively older population). Fiscal consolidation will need to address both aspects of the nation's social welfare system. It almost certainly will not eliminate it.

A similar situation exists with rspect to foreign policy. As a nation's power grows (political, economic, and military), especially in a world that is becoming ever more interconnected (trade, capital, information flows), it has a growing number of overseas interests and also has international allies. While it must be careful to avoid overreach, abdication (even non-interventionism aka "soft isolationism" that embraces trade, but nothing else in foreign policy) also undermines its interests and security. It must find a careful balance based on a combination of its ideals, critical interests, and allies.
 
Just so you guys don't think I'm running away, I'm posting to tell you I will come back to respond later tonight. For now, I have to go to work. See you later.
 
Because people like you believed it was a death panel. You believed it because it was repeated over and over and over again despite being proven to be false. Hell, it wasn't even something that would be done "by a government agency" like you described in this thread, but you still believe that to be true. It was a conversation between you and your doctor, the same way people already do it. The only change is that the bill would have allowed medicare to foot the bill for that consultation with your doctor. If you chose to get it. It wasn't even mandatory.

Ok what exactly is end of life counciling then...
 
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Discussions on pain management, hospice, living wills, etc. These discussions already happen. The provision was to cover the expense.

Wanna hear something funny?
GOP Supported End-of-Life Counseling in 2003 Medicare Bill | Swampland

The link the article takes you to the GOP-supported bill to do basically the same thing as Obama was proposing that got labeled "the death panel."

IMO, when it comes to Medicare's fiscal challenges, there will need to be an open and honest debate concerning the program's benefit structure, copayments, eligibility criteria (i.e., age, possible means testing, etc.). At the same time, policy makers will need to recognize that a significant degree of Medicare's problems (and also the broader issue of health care access) are the result of larger structural problems in the nation's health care system itself, specifically the industry's excessive cost growth problem that already provides substantive rationing of care. Health care expenditures cannot increase at a multiple of nominal GDP indefinitely. Ultimately, foreigners will stop subsizing a growing share of U.S. health care via channels such as lending to the federal government, financing the current account deficit, etc. Hospitals, in particular, are a leading generator of health inflation, with the price of hospital services increasing, on average, more than twice the rate of consumer prices (a more than decade-long trend that persists).

A fairly large menu of reform options exists, both on the demand and supply side, even as demand for many medical services is relatively inelastic. The incentive structure concerning technology procurement based on a cost effectiveness assessment (technology purchased in its infancy is typically far more expensive than later on and its benefits are marginally better than those of alternatives based on extensive research in disruptive technologies) will need to be addressed. Today, the U.S. does not utilize cost effectiveness analysis in its reimbursement and tax policies related to the deployment of new technologies. Yet, the IMF has found that inefficient technology utilization may account for up to half of medical care inflation in the U.S. Patient cost-sharing will also need to be increased (that's where means-testing might have to play a role to balance cost recovery against access to medical care). Supply side approaches e.g., making it far easier for international medical institutions and foreign medical practioners to provide services in the U.S., will also need to be considered even if established interests try to maintain an artificial ceiling on suppliers of such services. Those artificial ceilings inhibit competition and undermine consumer welfare. Drug reimportation should also be permitted. Current law that precludes what would amount to an arbitrage opportunity due to price disparities across borders, is also anti-competitive. Medicare, like any other large entity, should use the leverage associated with its size to negotiate volume discounts and other savings with suppliers of medical services, with the range of suppliers being expanded to include international suppliers.
 
Basically what this vote shows is that old folks want the money the voted themselves from our pockets, and our children's futures be damned.

**** the old people, they created this mess. They sat around and did nothing while these programs just become more and more unsustainable, and now they demand to get what they were promised in return for their votes.

It's time to take the country back from the brink, the brink these "old folks" made happen.

"Screw the old people". You gotta love those compassionate conservatives.
 
+1 Screw the old people.

Intergenerational justice time. Those old bastards have been hogging the good life for decades and now they want to party forever and ever, with cable and internet. I say we put 'em ta work.
 
if something isn't done imminently to restructure medicare it will very soon cease to exist in its present form

it's been two years since the party in power produced a budget in the united states senate and by all accounts it doesn't look like it's gonna deliver this year either

do nothing and medicare will die

harry reid---let's do nothing

leadership?

party on, pals
 
While that may be true, the fact remains that a dem scored 48% in a district where a dem should not have scored more than 35%.

The Dem still got less than 50% of the vote. If you want to see if repudiation of Paul Ryan's privatization of medicare exists, this is not the race for it. Now there IS a special election in New Hampshire's 2nd district coming up, where Anne Kuster is running against Republican incumbent Charlie Bass. If Kuster upsets Bass there, then I would have to agree that the Republicans are in deep trouble, and that Paul Ryan's bill is the reason for it.
 
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History says you're wrong. Every country on earth says you're wrong. Why do you think you're right? You haven't explained it.

What do you want to know more about? I haven't said much on what my platform is and yet you have placed on a map and are sure of its placement.

These questions about water are raised, but no study with decent methodology proves true harm. Most of the places these questions are coming from are tinfoil hat-wearers who believe it's a government mind control plot.

That is because no studies have really been done all that well on it. I however have no reason to believe that poisons are ok in low doses over a long period of time. It sounds illogical to me.

Private industry existing atop goverment infrastructure is the universal rule. It's not badly planned - it's necessary in a fast-paced, highly competitive, highly communicative society. Every company's land, plumbing, communication infrustrcture, roads they use for transport, etc, is all built on a government platform. They can't exist in a meaningful capacity without it because fractured industry and landscape does not work in a developed country. It's not competitive.

That is more a instrument of how it is now though. There is no reason to believe that I can see that the infrastructure you speak of is a essential part of society in order to make society work. Saying it as so with no supporting evidence like you did is not very convincing.

There is no country that I am aware of that is largely de-regulated where poverty levels are low. Please find one and correct me if I am wrong. Qualifications for this include private infrastructure and governance. You can claim it all you want, but history books and the world economy disagree. All evidence says that what happens is that a tiny percentage get rich, and the vast majority become destitutely poor.

Lets ignore that you are obviously changed the topic and you clearly do not know my stance but you decree that you in fact do, which is clearly and loudly blatantly false and focus only on your lack of understanding of the world in which we live. You think that deregulation in which I call for has actually happened, and that my friend is false so comparing it to history is a falsity. Second, in all countries that have huge populations of poor they do not have the conditions in which I call for, in the system that I wish to be in place. Their cultures are weak, their understanding of freedom is limited, and their will is limited but all of this can be fixed, but in order to really get there they have to move more to a free market system with economic freedom in place. All of them are not good comparisons to what I decree.

There is balance in all things. Communications companies actually have tons of freedom to innovate and add features and control pricing since they don't have the worry about the ground work. There is nothing wrong with the groundwork. It goes everywhere. So they get to cover as much as of that as they desire to aim for, in whatever way they aim to. The free market decides who is best.

Control pricing they do not have. If they price too high the government will cry, that is not freedom as it should be. Its control, pure and simple. As for the free market, a market in which the government is involved is not free, but it might still be a market. A free market driven solution wouldn't include the government in the solution, it wouldn't allow a failed model to be exist in the name of some sort of game it offers. The model in which you seek is a net lose, not only in price, but in freedom and in fair competitive forces. The gains it gives should be offered in a reasonable, real world solution that market can manage, not a solution in which needs help to exist and makes a special exception to a field because of gains. This just holds up what you wish and holds down everyone else. Not freedom at all, not fair at all, and I dare say not good for the country.

And here's where we get to the overarching point. When the basics, the questions of survival, are taken care of, the freedom for human innovation is limitless. People don't have to spend all day worrying about how they're going to eat, or if they'll freeze to death at night (though unfortunately some still do in America - funnily enough, the rate of this depth of poverty is lower in more regulated countries).

The rate of poverty has nothing to do with regulations and everything like I said to do with wealth. That comes from the market. When the wealth is high and the market is healthy poverty is lower.

My goal post has not move. I have been consistently rebutting your basless and fanciful claims. You say you think it will just be utopia (without giving me any reason other than that you think it), yet I can't think of a single example in history of your kind of government leading to that. And certainly not in modern history where competitiveness depends on connectivity and assured thresholds of education.

You went from talking of a view issues to talking of my entire platform. That is a goal shift. Second, my type of government has actually been(pretty much) tried once, but it failed due to demands of the people and modern liberalism spreading the globe. It however was doing well before that came to be.

The reality is that individuals who satisfy their lower order needs e.g., survival, aspire toward progressively higher order ones. That is human nature. It is no accident that societies that migrate from little more than an existential struggle also evolve toward policies whose goals extend beyond mere survival. It is no accident that the arrangement you suggest has never been implemented.

They ask for help, which is human nature instead of looking into themselves. Yes, I understand this well. I have formed my policies in fixing this problem. You can call them imperfect if you wish, you can them mean, you can them cruel, but you can't say your ideas have handing them survival is better. I had them the tools, I had them the path, I do not hand them the results in which they plead for. I do this through the private means of production, through protection of rights, and freedom. The three and only three tools people need and throughout history have not had. I admit that paths are hard, I admit that the government needs to make sure they stay open, but I will do nothing greater. I believe in the basic footprint that founders wanted to leave to the world, but never could manage to make people understand. If you wish to call me a dreamer, or naive, go right ahead, but I assure of one thing, what we are doing is not working.

Societies have concluded that government should provide certain social welfare functions, the major differences being how extensive (can be a problem if they grow to unsustainable levels financially and in terms of administration) and in what fashion (can also be a problem e.g., the pay-as-you go design is inherently flawed in the face of demographic shift toward a relatively older population). Fiscal consolidation will need to address both aspects of the nation's social welfare system. It almost certainly will not eliminate it.

This is the fundamental problem in social order. When the country was founded a big step was taken and a responsibility was given to the people. This gave way to the possibility that the people would solve social issues and with empowerment of the private means of production there was real hope that (classic)liberalism and the power of the idea it gave birth too was going to take hold. Predictably people like Marx where born and the idea liberalism and the power of social justice took hold again and all the progress that could of been was never to be. Instead we regressed back to what we were doing for 2000 years, not solving our social problems, not allowing freedom, and using government for fix the world. I don't believe in regression and believing in government as you guys do is regressive in nature and doesn't allow the possibility of real meaningful growth as individual people.



A similar situation exists with rspect to foreign policy. As a nation's power grows (political, economic, and military), especially in a world that is becoming ever more interconnected (trade, capital, information flows), it has a growing number of overseas interests and also has international allies. While it must be careful to avoid overreach, abdication (even non-interventionism aka "soft isolationism" that embraces trade, but nothing else in foreign policy) also undermines its interests and security. It must find a careful balance based on a combination of its ideals, critical interests, and allies.

I have been trying to figure out what you want but I just don't appear to have the ability to do it, sorry. Can you talk in more direct means for me?

See you soon.
:rantoff:

A bit late bit here I am. :)
 
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I have been trying to figure out what you want but I just don't appear to have the ability to do it, sorry. Can you talk in more direct means for me?

My point is that when it comes to effective policy, principle and proportion are inseparable. In the absence of proportion, principled policy can tend to extremes. In the absence of principle, proportionate policy can lead to stagnation. In the face of rising fiscal challenges, a course that embraces the status quo or one that aims to wholesale eliminate programs/services that enjoy broad public support would both be ruinous. The former would lead to a debt crisis. The latter would lead to political and social instability. Difficult and courageous choices on the spending and tax side will be required to address the nation's fiscal challenges. Those difficult decisions should not be evaded. Simplistic ideas that one can do nothing and simply "grow" one's way out of the imbalances or that one can magically make a large chunk of the federal government disappear will lead nowhere. No matter how they are packaged, they are evasions of the serious choices that need to be made.
 
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the big 3, according to most the insiders, are charlie cook, larry sabato and stan greenberg

but truly i have found both rcp's jay cost and sean trende more helpful

here's trende's look at ny26, in a certain context

special elections since obama's inauguration:

hawaii 1, may of 2010, obama's home district, republican charles djou beat a divided pair of dems propelled by boss inouye's little inside snit

djou lost his seat back to blue in november

pennsylvania 12, jonestown, also may of 10, jack murtha's seat, dem mark critz held it by seven by running against obamacare, and he's still there today

new york 23, november, 09, the same nite chris christie and bob mcdonnell stormed trenton and richmond---it was the famous dede scozzafava scrap, dem and working families party candidate bill owens beat tea drinker doug hoffman by 2

new york 20, gillibrand's seat, march of 09, hudson river valley, upstate---dem scott murphy beat jim tedisco by half a percent

trende concludes: since 1990, the party that has netted the most special election seats has gone on to lose membership in the next ensuing general 58% of the time

RealClearPolitics - Quick Thoughts on NY-26

fyi
 
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