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'Genderless' Child Ignites Firestorm in Canada

Harry Guerrilla said:
The use of "naturally" is dubious.
English developed the gender modifiers "naturally" therefor it is natural.
It is my assumption based on their actions.

Gender exists because of the division of labor, that has brought humanity to were it is.
For some reason, I just don't think it's wrong. ;)
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Actually, primates exhibit gender roles similar to those of humans. Studies have been conducted where gender specific toys (toys with wheels, dolls, etc.) have been given to young chimps. The females tended to play with all the toys but the males exhibited greater interest in the wheeled toys.

Nothing these people have done or said would contradict the notion that gender is both biologically influenced and socially influenced. They have simply chosen not to let society influence the child and to let biology run its course. You are making groundless assumptions.
 
Dix said:
Storm's oldest brother wears a pink dress and long pigtails and the 2nd oldest brother is often mistaken for a girl. I would call that "influence".
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I think that's quite a leap. As shown earlier, gender identity is inborn. Just because you're raised as a gender doesn't mean you'll identify with it. Even if you do, you may identify as a greater or lesser degree.

Since there are actual differences in brain chemistry and formation in transsexuals (usually of the opposite sex) it may have a genetic component. We just don't know.
 
Dix said:
Storm's oldest brother wears a pink dress and long pigtails and the 2nd oldest brother is often mistaken for a girl. I would call that "influence".
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Where did you read this?
 
Dix said:
Storm's oldest brother wears a pink dress and long pigtails and the 2nd oldest brother is often mistaken for a girl. I would call that "influence".
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And there is nothing wrong with that, as long as it is what they(the kids) want to do.
 
CriticalThought said:
Actually, primates exhibit gender roles similar to those of humans. Studies have been conducted where gender specific toys (toys with wheels, dolls, etc.) have been given to young chimps. The females tended to play with all the toys but the males exhibited greater interest in the wheeled toys.

Nothing these people have done or said would contradict the notion that gender is both biologically influenced and socially influenced. They have simply chosen not to let society influence the child and to let biology run its course. You are making groundless assumptions.
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Society is part of human biology.
We don't exist as individuals in a vacuum. :doh
 
Couldn't find this story on the front pages of any of our major news websites.

Here's a story that is vastly more interesting though...

Halifax man spends 12 years typing out numbers to 1M - CTV News

With a stroke of the keys, Danny Johnson put the final touches on his numerical opus Saturday.


The 61-year-old Halifax-area man typed up the spelling of every number from one to one million on electrical typewriters, resulting in 20,000 pages.


"I feel great because I accomplished something I set out to do 12 years ago," Johnson said.


Started in August 1999, the project raised $300,000 for Sir Frederick Fraser School, a Halifax school for the visually impaired.


"We are so honoured really, to be part of this special time for Danny," said Bert Tulk, the school's superintendent.


Thirteen typewriters and dozens of ribbons were used in Johnson's 10-hour typing days.


The project was originally supposed to take only five years, but Johnson was forced to slow his pace when he was sidelined with carpal tunnel syndrome.


"When you stop to think about it, it's a very boring type of project to undertake," he said.


Johnson is the second person to have typed the written form of one million out. The first was an Australian named Les Stewart who only had the use of one finger and took 16 years to finish.
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I will say however, that this is just as bad.

They called parents who make choices for their children 'obnoxious', instead telling their children to challenge how they're expected to look and act based on their sex.
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Not exactly a way to gain empathy by indicting the overwhelming majority of the human population.
 
Fiddytree said:
I will say however, that this is just as bad.

Not exactly a way to gain empathy by indicting the overwhelming majority of the human population.
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I don't see how that's bad at all. There's a lot of senseless, shaming baggage that goes along with believing whatever a society tells you to. It's also a poor recipe for intellectual growth.

May not be popular, but that doesn't make it wrong.
 
Your Star said:
Well what else is there to do in Canada?
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Climb this mountain:

mountain-rundle.jpg


Can't wait to do it, but I have to wait for the snow to melt :(
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Try this one out.

If gender were a social construct, then why do transgender people exist?

...everyone is now blown away.
clint.gif
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Gender refers to two things: biological gender and gender roles. The confusion usually occurs when folks don't realize that the term can refer to EITHER of these things. Biological gender refers to ones chromosones. Gender roles refer the sociatal construct of how men and women each behave. These construct are changable, whereas biology is not.

Transgenderism is far more complex and fits somewhere in between these two definitions. Chromosonally, transgenders are either male or female, and nothing, SRS or HRT alters this fact. However, there is evidence that, biologically, the brains of transgenders operate more like those of the gender opposite to what their chromosones are; there is also some evidence that the timing of hormonal production in the womb may be one of the causes of transgenderism. Much of this research is very new, so it is not conclusive.
 
Oh, and as to the issue in the OP. Parents are stupid, however, if they are saying that they will not impose gender roles on their child, and let he/she chose their own direction, I see little problem with that. If they are going to encourage the child to reject their own biological gender, I would think that some psychological damage might occur, perhaps creating GID in the child.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Gender refers to two things: biological gender and gender roles. The confusion usually occurs when folks don't realize that the term can refer to EITHER of these things. Biological gender refers to ones chromosones. Gender roles refer the sociatal construct of how men and women each behave. These construct are changable, whereas biology is not.

Transgenderism is far more complex and fits somewhere in between these two definitions. Chromosonally, transgenders are either male or female, and nothing, SRS or HRT alters this fact. However, there is evidence that, biologically, the brains of transgenders operate more like those of the gender opposite to what their chromosones are; there is also some evidence that the timing of hormonal production in the womb may be one of the causes of transgenderism. Much of this research is very new, so it is not conclusive.
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I'm not convinced that gender behavior and self identification are subject to choice anymore than hetero or homosexuality.

I very much in the camp that a person is born, predisposed to accept the behavior of a certain gender and that through learned observation of their predisposed gender + some evolutionary instinct, they express the typical gender behavior.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Oh, and as to the issue in the OP. Parents are stupid, however, if they are saying that they will not impose gender roles on their child, and let he/she chose their own direction, I see little problem with that. If they are going to encourage the child to reject their own biological gender, I would think that some psychological damage might occur, perhaps creating GID in the child.
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Yea that's what I was getting at, to truly not effect their child's "natural" gender development, they would have to remain completely neutral, not supporting nor rejecting any typical behavior set by a certain gender.

Where most/all children learn part of their gender development through an adult.
It's idiotic.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I'm not convinced that gender behavior and self identification are subject to choice anymore than hetero or homosexuality.

I very much in the camp that a person is born, predisposed to accept the behavior of a certain gender and that through learned observation of their predisposed gender + some evolutionary instinct, they express the typical gender behavior.
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In bold. You just SAID that it's a choice right there... some is learned.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Yea that's what I was getting at, to truly not effect their child's "natural" gender development, they would have to remain completely neutral, not supporting nor rejecting any typical behavior set by a certain gender.

Where most/all children learn part of their gender development through an adult.
It's idiotic.
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I can pretty much agree with this.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
In bold. You just SAID that it's a choice right there... some is learned.
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Sure some is learned, but I think it is biological.
We humans are communal, we have long childhoods for a reason, to pass on successful information to new generations from the older.
It's a biological development, to continue human survival.
 
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