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'Genderless' Child Ignites Firestorm in Canada

Well, a 4-month-old baby isn't being told much of anything.

Gender and sex are different. Sex is the physical presentation of a person. Gender is their internal identity.

The child shouldn't be told what their gender is. Most people have a gender that is consistent with their sex. Some don't. Either way is fine.

Internal gender identity is a popular myth, MistressNomad. It is a belief. It cannot be scientifically proven. Belief is the death of intelligence. I may wish myself Japanese, but it is not so. I may wish I had no gender but it is not so. I may wish myself an animal, but it is not so. A dog may wish itself a cat, but it is not so. It is internal confusion that locks both religion, and science.

The child should also not be told what its gender isn't. If the child is a female, do not lie to it by telling her she is a boy or tenderness. Who are you to say that? What do you know?

Some of the other posts, to me, seem merely annoying. I will not bother putting them through their paces.
 
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"To be free of societal norms". That is their motive. Every action has a reason.

What else can be free of societal norms? Naked resorts, man babies, people who permanently ink every inch of their bodies including whites and iris of the eye..

It appears to be a desire for attention.

Wow... somebody is living in 1523.
 
It definitely doesn't sound like they are looking for attention. They did an interview with a newspaper (doesn't say if they initiated interview or if someone else pointed the reporter in their direction) but they turned down further interviews specificially saying that they didn't want the attention. We'll see if they do more interviews in the future, but it is too earlier to claim that they are looking for attention without knowing why they did the first interview.

I deem that a fair response.
 
Wow... somebody is living in 1523.

The wise speak because they have something to say; fools because they have got to say something.
 
Internal gender identity is a popular myth, MistressNomad. It is a belief. It cannot be scientifically proven. Belief is the death of intelligence. I may wish myself Japanese, but it is not so. I may wish I had no gender but it is not so. I may wish myself an animal, but it is not so. A dog may wish itself a cat, but it is not so. It is internal confusion that locks both religion, and science.

The child should also not be told what its gender isn't. If the child is a female, do not lie to it by telling her she is a boy or tenderness. Who are you to say that? What do you know?

Some off the other posts, to me, seem merely annoying. I will not bother putting them through their paces.

Actually it kinda can. Whether or not an intersexed child assigned a gender at birth will grow up to agree with that gender can be predicted by its hormonal levels.

But even if it were a myth, who cares? Who cares if someone wants to be the opposite gender as their sex, or no gender at all? Seriously, what difference does it make? Confusion and shame within transexuals and androgyns is brought on by societal targetting. In societies that don't think it's a big deal, this confusion and shame dissapates.

The child isn't being told anything. That's the point. Whether the parents will resist its gender expression when it gets older remains to be seen. And if that were the case, I agree that would be wrong. If the child is female sexed, and grows up wanting to be a girlie girl, whatever. If the child is male sexed, and grows up wanting to be a girlie girl, whatever. If the child grows up to want to be a girlie girl and the parents insist that it remain genderless, that is wrong.
 
Internal gender identity is a popular myth, MistressNomad. It is a belief. It cannot be scientifically proven. Belief is the death of intelligence. I may wish myself Japanese, but it is not so. I may wish I had no gender but it is not so. I may wish myself an animal, but it is not so. A dog may wish itself a cat, but it is not so. It is internal confusion that locks both religion, and science.

The child should also not be told what its gender isn't. If the child is a female, do not lie to it by telling her she is a boy or tenderness. Who are you to say that? What do you know?

Some off the other posts, to me, seem merely annoying. I will not bother putting them through their paces.

But the things that we associate with being for a specific gender are usually things that can easily be changed, such as wearing certain kinds of clothing, growing hair out in certain places and shaving hair from other places, walking a certain way, talking a certain way, liking certain movies, colors, or activities. All of these are things that, although in some ways may be associated with only one gender, can be taken on by a member of the other gender without any actual physical alterations required. In fact, even adding fake breast doesn't require permanent physical alterations.

Even if they want the physical alterations, how is it any different than someone without a gender identity disorder who wants to enhance their apperance through surgery? Are they hurting you in any way by wanting to live as the opposite gender? Are they hurting someone else? If they are happy with their decision, let it be their decision.

I have learned a lot over the last 8 years since my brother told us that he wanted to be a woman (not nearly enough, in my own opinion, but more than many people, especially those who don't personally know anyone who suffers from GID or is transgendered). My brother is happy dressing in women's clothing and walking around as a woman. He is more secure in himself as a woman.
 
Seems a little sad, though, to have to refer to a child as "it".
 
Seems a little sad, though, to have to refer to a child as "it".

How about just referring to the child as "child" or by his/her name, Storm? So they limited how other people and they can refer to their child, big deal. As long as however people refer to the child, it isn't degrading, then there should be no harm.
 
As long as they are not lying to the child or encouraging the child to identify as having a gender other than the one with which he or she was born I see no issue with this. In fact, I applaud the idea of raising a child without placing them into the some traditional gender role that only serves as a form of social oppression. People should not be slaves to the concept of gender in any way.

When I have children I fully intend to raise them without imposing some archaic concept of what boys and girls should be like. Instead I would encourage them to be uniquely them and not just assume they have to be a certain way because society tells them there is something wrong with them behaving one way while having x sexual organ.
 
How about just referring to the child as "child" or by his/her name, Storm? So they limited how other people and they can refer to their child, big deal. As long as however people refer to the child, it isn't degrading, then there should be no harm.

He/she are appropriate terms but, as the parents do not want "it" referred to by those terms, "it" is the appropriate alternative. You want to be different and make the news, that's fine but having their child referred to as "it" is just going to have to be one of the consequences.
 
I am a little surprised more people are are not concerned about the possible out come later for this child. I really didn't expect the responses.

If you Google: "effects of raising a child gender neutral" you will find this is not the first time this has come up.

I also want to point out that all I did was give my opinion I never said anything should be done about it. I was voicing my personal concern.
 
People are just going to know those? I've never heard of them.

Nope, which is why I mentioned them. :) Like I said, they are in limited use. An agreed-upon gender-neutral pronoun has not yet been established. So, if you don't want to use "it," you can use one of those.
 
They are stupid and will likely fail.
I'm pretty well convinced that gender is biological.

You're right. But not enforcing what that gender should be doesn't harm the child. It just frees them from expectation of exactly what kind, and how much, gender expression they have.
 
Shouldn't they have the freedom to raise their child as they wish? Or should the government tell them what to do?

I believe that this is the point. However, at what point does raising a child as one wishes conflict with the rights that the child has under the Constitution? I believe that the discussion should be centered around this point. Where is the line to be drawn? I would say that, as long as the child is not deprived of his / her inherent Constitutional rights, then the parents are not breaking any laws.
 
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They are stupid and will likely fail.
I'm pretty well convinced that gender is biological.

So, you're suggesting boys and girls are actually different, biologically and otherwise? That's crazy talk.
 
I am a little surprised more people are are not concerned about the possible out come later for this child. I really didn't expect the responses.

If you Google: "effects of raising a child gender neutral" you will find this is not the first time this has come up.

I also want to point out that all I did was give my opinion I never said anything should be done about it. I was voicing my personal concern.

All of the reliable studies I've seen say that raising a child gender-neutral either has no effect, or a positive effect, on their outcome. Thus, I'm pretty ok with it.

I actually learned a bit about this in Psych 101. The extremes of the gender roles tend to be less extreme in children raised gender-neutral. This doesn't seem to impair their functioning or mental state, nor does it seem to encourage transgenderism. It just moves men and women a little closer together. I don't see anything wrong with that.
 
You're right. But not enforcing what that gender should be doesn't harm the child. It just frees them from expectation of exactly what kind, and how much, gender expression they have.

I just find it utterly absurd.

They have to go out of their way to do something that will likely, not succeed.
They are free to do so, but I wish people would spend more time thinking of these things before pursuing them.
It makes them look like idiots.
 
So, you're suggesting boys and girls are actually different, biologically and otherwise? That's crazy talk.

Yes they are different, I don't think no one is suggesting otherwise, but societal gender norms, are just that, derived from society, and not biology.
 
So, you're suggesting boys and girls are actually different, biologically and otherwise? That's crazy talk.

Try this one out.

If gender were a social construct, then why do transgender people exist?

...everyone is now blown away.
clint.gif
 
I just find it utterly absurd.

They have to go out of their way to do something that will likely, not succeed.
They are free to do so, but I wish people would spend more time thinking of these things before pursuing them.
It makes them look like idiots.

They aren't trying to "succeed" in anything. They're just trying to allow their child their natural degree of expression, rather than forcing a hyper-stereotypical gender role on them.

Like I said, if the child gets older and has a particular expression and the parents try to force androgyny on them, then that is wrong. But we haven't seen that to be the case yet. The child is still a baby.
 
Try this one out.

If gender were a social construct, then why do transgender people exist?

...everyone is now blown away.
clint.gif

I do think gender is innate, but the way one expresses their gender is up to them, what defines being female gendered? What defines being male gendered?
 
They aren't trying to "succeed" in anything. They're just trying to allow their child their natural degree of expression, rather than forcing a hyper-stereotypical gender role on them.

Like I said, if the child gets older and has a particular expression and the parents try to force androgyny on them, then that is wrong. But we haven't seen that to be the case yet. The child is still a baby.

Adding "ze" or whatever has practically 0 effect on the development of the kid.
Similarly to saying She/he.

It serves no purpose.
 
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