• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Supreme Court orders California to release tens of thousands of prison inmates

At least 75% of the people in our prisons shouldn't be there at all. I suggest the following steps for all states facing prison overcrowding and/or budget shortages:

1. Eliminate all state drug laws. Although the states can't unilaterally end the war on drugs, if Eric Holder and Barack Obama want to prosecute potheads, they can do it their goddamned selves without the assistance or cooperation of the states.

2. Cut the sentences for all nonviolent crimes in half.

3. Nonviolent offenders should never spend a day in prison unless they're a flight risk. Give them house arrest, or a halfway home, or something like that. The purpose of prison is to keep dangerous people away from the rest of society.

4. Make more of an effort to find jobs for people who have been released from prison. Lower or eliminate the minimum wage for ex-cons so that they are able to find someone to hire them. Additionally, criminal records should be scrubbed after 7ish years from release, with the exception of the most severe crimes (rape, murder, etc).
 
apdst said:
The reason the cops don't **** with me, is because I don't do things to cause the cops to **** with me.

Blacks who are ****ing up and look like they're ****ing up get ****ed with by the cops. Unfortunately, blacks **** up, alot and that is a fact.
Click to expand...

that can't possibly be true. blacks don't **** up any more than anyone else, they are all just victims of institutionalized racism. :roll:

see that mindset is what keeps blacks down and dependent, just the way the libbies like 'em. god forbid that blacks ever take responsibility and improve themselves. holy ****...they might stop voting for democrats.

blacks are just as capable as everyone else. if people would stop making excuses and telling them they can't excell because of racism, prejudice, etc things would be much better.

human being tend to live up of down to the expectations placed on them. when you keep the expectations low, and constantly make excuses for failure, you get what you expect.

That's why I like the Army, it doesn't matter what freakin color you are. If you can do your freakin job you will excell. If you can't do your job then you won't.
 
Kandahar said:
Blacks are more likely to be stopped without justification and more likely to receive harsher sentences for comparable crimes.
Click to expand...

prove it. this is just more of the same shift the blame BS
 
OscarB63 said:
prove it. this is just more of the same shift the blame BS
Click to expand...

The results show there is a real issue concerning whether police target blacks and other minorities for traffic stops and whether minorities are treated differently by police, said Richard Lundman, co-author of the study and professor of sociology at Ohio State University.

“The implications of the patterns we found are troubling, regardless of whether they result from police actions, the perceptions of minority citizens, or perhaps more likely, from both,” Lundman said.

Driving While Black: Study Shows Minorities More Likely To Question Why Police Stopped Them, How They Were Treated

Study: Houston police stop blacks more often .

Study: Houston police stop blacks more often | khou.com Houston

Blacks and Latinos were nine times as likely as whites to be stopped by the police in New York City in 2009, but, once stopped, were no more likely to be arrested.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/nyregion/13frisk.html

Just the first few of a search.
 
Boo Radley said:
The results show there is a real issue concerning whether police target blacks and other minorities for traffic stops and whether minorities are treated differently by police, said Richard Lundman, co-author of the study and professor of sociology at Ohio State University.

“The implications of the patterns we found are troubling, regardless of whether they result from police actions, the perceptions of minority citizens, or perhaps more likely, from both,” Lundman said.

Driving While Black: Study Shows Minorities More Likely To Question Why Police Stopped Them, How They Were Treated

Study: Houston police stop blacks more often .

Study: Houston police stop blacks more often | khou.com Houston

Blacks and Latinos were nine times as likely as whites to be stopped by the police in New York City in 2009, but, once stopped, were no more likely to be arrested.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/nyregion/13frisk.html

Just the first few of a search.
Click to expand...

bolded: just because minorities have the perception that they are stopped more often or with no justification doesn't make it so. I'm sure Rodney King felt like he wasn't doing anything wrong either

bolded&italics: I'm sure the fact that even though blacks make up 25% of the pop in NYC they are responsible for 64% of the murders has nothing to do with why they get stopped more often.
 
Last edited:
OscarB63 said:
bolded: just because minorities have the perception that they are stopped more often or with no justification doesn't make it so. I'm sure Rodney King felt like he wasn't doing anything wrong either

bolded&italics: I'm sure the fact that even though blacks make up 25% of the pop in NYC they are responsible for 64% of the murders has nothing to do with why they get stopped more often.
Click to expand...

Not sure why so many use this tactic. The fact is you have 3 articles. Not only is there the perception, but also factly it is show they are stopped more. And rather arrested or not in NYC, they are stopped more. Stopping anyone without cause can't really be justified.
 
Kandahar said:
At least 75% of the people in our prisons shouldn't be there at all. I suggest the following steps for all states facing prison overcrowding and/or budget shortages:

1. Eliminate all state drug laws. Although the states can't unilaterally end the war on drugs, if Eric Holder and Barack Obama want to prosecute potheads, they can do it their goddamned selves without the assistance or cooperation of the states.

2. Cut the sentences for all nonviolent crimes in half.

3. Nonviolent offenders should never spend a day in prison unless they're a flight risk. Give them house arrest, or a halfway home, or something like that. The purpose of prison is to keep dangerous people away from the rest of society.

4. Make more of an effort to find jobs for people who have been released from prison. Lower or eliminate the minimum wage for ex-cons so that they are able to find someone to hire them. Additionally, criminal records should be scrubbed after 7ish years from release, with the exception of the most severe crimes (rape, murder, etc).
Click to expand...

That's the most cockamamey I've ever heard. Where's the incentive to not break the law?

Why do Liberals constantly want to take personal responsibility out of the equation?
 
Boo Radley said:
Not sure why so many use this tactic. The fact is you have 3 articles. Not only is there the perception, but also factly it is show they are stopped more. And rather arrested or not in NYC, they are stopped more. Stopping anyone without cause can't really be justified.
Click to expand...

And, you know what? If they don't have any illegal inside their vehicle, they don't have anything to worry about. DUH!!!!

Instead of complaining about being stopped, we should be complaining about the assholes that created the atmosphere that causes us to be stopped. But, that brings us back around to the whole personal responsibility thing.
 
Last edited:
apdst said:
And, you know what? If they don't have any illegal inside their vehicle, they don't have anything to worry about. DUH!!!!
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but I personally wouldn't like being stopped all the time. Stop me if I do something; otherwise, don't. Fish at the lake.
 
apdst said:
That's the most cockamamey I've ever heard. Where's the incentive to not break the law?

Why do Liberals constantly want to take personal responsibility out of the equation?
Click to expand...

I do wish conservatives believed in personal respsonsibility, but too often they make excuses for people being irresponsible (presidents, unisured, etc.)
 
Boo Radley said:
I'm sorry, but I personally wouldn't like being stopped all the time. Stop me if I do something; otherwise, don't. Fish at the lake.
Click to expand...

Are you saying that all those blacks are being pulled over without probabl cause, even? I don't buy that.
 
Boo Radley said:
I do wish conservatives believed in personal respsonsibility, but too often they make excuses for people being irresponsible (presidents, unisured, etc.)
Click to expand...

Care to point out some examples?
 
apdst said:
Are you saying that all those blacks are being pulled over without probabl cause, even? I don't buy that.
Click to expand...

It is unlikley there was really probabale cause in all those cases. To stop them 9 times more often, I'm skeptical to say the least.
 
Boo Radley said:
It is unlikley there was really probabale cause in all those cases.
Click to expand...

Let's see some stats.


To stop them 9 times more often, I'm skeptical to say the least.
Click to expand...

Of course you're skeptical. You do an injustice to the black community with your skepticism.
 
Boo Radley said:
Bush.

Individual mandate.

CEO's
Click to expand...

Um, the Righties haven't been pushing Obamacare. It wasn't a Right Winger that bailed out GM, either.

It's the Leftists that have kicked personal responsibility to the curb.
 
Boo Radley said:
It is unlikley there was really probabale cause in all those cases. To stop them 9 times more often, I'm skeptical to say the least.
Click to expand...

all dem racist cops must have much better eyesight than I've got. when I was patrolling, I had already decided whether or not to stop a vehicle well before I got close enough to determine the skin color of the driver. :shrug:
 
apdst said:
Let's see some stats.




Of course you're skeptical. You do an injustice to the black community with your skepticism.
Click to expand...

There's plenty on it:

LOS ANGELES (AP) — A report by a civil liberties group has found that Los Angeles police officers are more likely to stop and search black and Hispanic residents than they are whites, even though whites are more often found carrying guns or contraband.

Study: L.A. police stop more blacks than whites - USATODAY.com

There is evidence that racial profiling was common practice in the New Jersey State Police in the 1990's: internal police memos; testimony by troopers; and training materials that encouraged officers to stop and search minority drivers. Most striking are police records that show that black and Hispanic motorists, who make up 30 percent of the drivers on the turnpike, were subjected to more than 80 percent of the searches.

Study Suggests Racial Gap In Speeding In New Jersey - NYTimes.com

The authors concluded that shows a bias against blacks and Latinos, because a higher percentage were searched and let go than whites. Therefore, an officer made an error of judgment more often in searching a minority than a white person, the study found.

Study suggests Syracuse police bias against minorities; chief says numbers reflect good police work | syracuse.com


There is much written on this. I've giving in in groups of three, but you can search and see many, many more.
 
OscarB63 said:
all dem racist cops must have much better eyesight than I've got. when I was patrolling, I had already decided whether or not to stop a vehicle well before I got close enough to determine the skin color of the driver. :shrug:
Click to expand...

Don't make leaps. Not all stopped are in cars, and not all are hard to see. Been out a bit myself. :coffeepap
 
MrVicchio said:
I'm so glad I don't live in California right now...
Click to expand...

I escaped too, just before the earthquake, left in 92, settled in Grand Junction, CO. No smog, no earthquakes, no tornadoes, no floods, no heavy debt, rare crime, light traffic, and I can look through my office window and see kids playing in the park across the street.

ricksfolly
 
Kandahar said:
At least 75% of the people in our prisons shouldn't be there at all. I suggest the following steps for all states facing prison overcrowding and/or budget shortages:

1. Eliminate all state drug laws. Although the states can't unilaterally end the war on drugs, if Eric Holder and Barack Obama want to prosecute potheads, they can do it their goddamned selves without the assistance or cooperation of the states.

2. Cut the sentences for all nonviolent crimes in half.

3. Nonviolent offenders should never spend a day in prison unless they're a flight risk. Give them house arrest, or a halfway home, or something like that. The purpose of prison is to keep dangerous people away from the rest of society.

4. Make more of an effort to find jobs for people who have been released from prison. Lower or eliminate the minimum wage for ex-cons so that they are able to find someone to hire them. Additionally, criminal records should be scrubbed after 7ish years from release, with the exception of the most severe crimes (rape, murder, etc).
Click to expand...

How do you purpose handling ultra-violent offenders who commit assault, rape and murder while in prison?
 
apdst said:
Um, the Righties haven't been pushing Obamacare. It wasn't a Right Winger that bailed out GM, either.

It's the Leftists that have kicked personal responsibility to the curb.
Click to expand...

Oh, the mandate in health care reform was a republian idea, back when they cited personal responsibility. They lost that idea now. And republicans have bailed out ceos often. It wasn't doen for the first time under Obama. Republicans usually just gave them the money without any expectation of being paid back.
 
apdst said:
That's the most cockamamey I've ever heard. Where's the incentive to not break the law?
Click to expand...

You mean for nonviolent crimes? Well, I wouldn't want to be confined to house arrest, pay a big fine, have to do community service, or be embarrassed with my picture in the paper. Would you?

What's the point of locking someone in a cage and sodomizing them for, say, stealing a car? They aren't a danger to society.

apdst said:
Why do Liberals constantly want to take personal responsibility out of the equation?
Click to expand...

Be sure and let me know if you actually want to discuss the issue rather than reciting moronic talking points. :roll:
 
MrVicchio said:
Wherein did I say I support "high taxes" for anything?

I support giving people a chance, in this case they get THREE Chances to avoid being incarcirated for life. Whose fault Catawaba is it, that these people end in prison?

The first time? Okay, we can debate. After that... it's on them. Why are liberals so enamored by criminals?
Click to expand...

We are not enamored by criminals, we just do not consider otherwise productive members of society that do drugs to be criminals deserving of a life sentence that we have then pay for through your taxes. The position is both reasonable and fiscally conservative.
 
The people on here arguing that "you get arrested and therefore guilty" have no idea what they are talking about and have never done any research on the issue and should never serve on a jury.

OscarB63 said:
prove it. this is just more of the same shift the blame BS
Click to expand...

Same crime, more time - seattlepi.com
Chapter Three: Race, Sentencing and the "Tough Crime" Movement

And host of others. I studied this **** in college and its my job. Its not BS, its a national fact. For instance, a person who smokes crack can receive 25 years for procession compared to 10years (max sentences) for someone who has cocaine

hazlnut said:
How do you purpose handling ultra-violent offenders who commit assault, rape and murder while in prison?
Click to expand...

The same way we do now. Most people in prison aren't there for violent offenses.

apdst said:
That's the most cockamamey I've ever heard. Where's the incentive to not break the law?

Why do Liberals constantly want to take personal responsibility out of the equation?
Click to expand...

Deterrence has a mixed bag of working, you do know that right? Zero-tolerance for instance has been more successful than any other type of anti-crime program.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom