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As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

Grant said:
It is foolish to give corporations any money, as the government has done with banks and automakers, but treat them too harshly and they'll move elsewhere. and other countries would welcome many of these corporations with open arms. Many Americans are already complaining about jobs moving overseas. Hit American companies at home and more of them will be moving to friendlier climes.
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I have no problem with tax credits and other subsidies to corporations that deliver some new product/service that vastly improves the U.S. economy - directly/indirectly.

e.g. Verizon Wireless advance cell infrastructure. Over the last decade my cell phone bill has gone down relative to the amount of cell related products and services I am able to receive.

Re: Moving Elsewhere - when NAFTA kicked in and GM moved plants to Mexico, did we get better cars at a better price? No. But when Toyota built plants assembly plants in Alabama, we got JOBS and better cars at a better price.

The reduced cost in satellite telecommunications have resulted in the outsourcing of call centers. We lose jobs, but prices go down as companies lower their overhead. A trade off.

Jobs only move overseas when their is a benefit to the company. Cheap labor, etc.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
Show me tea party members in favor of coporate welfare.
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Re-read my post. I never claimed the TP was 'in favor' of corporate welfare. I state that if they were really sincere about Gov accountability and spending practices they would focus on the really BIG welfare recipients.

show me which companies are funding the tea party.
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:lamo:lamoThat's like saying: Prove to me the sun sets in the west.

Tea Party - SourceWatch

Astroturfing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Billionaire Koch Brothers’ War Against Obama : The New Yorker

Tea Party Funding Koch Brothers Emerge From Anonymity - Peter Fenn (usnews.com)

I saved the best for last:

Koch Industries: We Don't Fund Tea Parties (Except For The Tea Parties We Fund)

Another of Koch's beneficiaries is Americans for Prosperity, which was founded in part by the company's Executive Vice President, David Koch. He is currently the chairman of the board of the Americans for Prosperity Foundation.

AFP, based in Washington, has been a key organizer of many tea party events, including Tax Day Tea Party rallies in at least nine states today. (Indeed, we last encountered AFP when a man holding an "I Am AFP!" sign at an Ohio tea party protest berated a pro-health reform rallier who is disabled by Parkinson's.)

AFP's North Carolina branch has a Web site called www.nctaxdayteaparty.com that encourages supporters to "contact Americans for Prosperity-NC with questions about throwing a Tea Party in your town! We are here to help you have a great success!"
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hazlnut said:
Re-read my post. I never claimed the TP was 'in favor' of corporate welfare. I state that if they were really sincere about Gov accountability and spending practices they would focus on the really BIG welfare recipients.
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So you want them to ignore other government spending and concentrate on coporate welfare? Really? :roll: FAIL





:lamo:lamoThat's like saying: Prove to me the sun sets in the west.

Tea Party - SourceWatch



Astroturfing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Billionaire Koch Brothers’ War Against Obama : The New Yorker

Tea Party Funding Koch Brothers Emerge From Anonymity - Peter Fenn (usnews.com)

I saved the best for last:

Koch Industries: We Don't Fund Tea Parties (Except For The Tea Parties We Fund)
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Why no media matters link? oh wait, sourcwatch links the fools at media matters. double FAIL! :lamo
 
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liblady said:
i'm for a balanced approach, and that does include cuts to entitlement programs, along with a tax hike on those making over 150k, or hell, even 100k. we need to provide incentives for companies to create new jobs (maybe green energy?), and find ways to discourage outsourcing. perhaps raising taxes on those corporations who employ a significant number abroad. institute tariffs on imports.

bring back inheritance tax, it really affects very few people. up the cap on social security earnings. eliminate fraud and waste....(ha...ha). most of all, get the **** out of afghanistan and iraq......and cut our aid to other countries.
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You can do all of that but unless spending is controlled none of it will do any good. A $5 trillion 'stimulus' only led to further debt of $9 trillion more.

Government is out of control and there seems little that can stop it. Few of them seems to care very much, and are more concerned about getting re-elected.
 
Badmutha said:
Wasnt that obvious a few trillion dollars ago?............

Wasnt that obvious a few entitlements or Democrat social teets ago?..........

So Yes Spending must be cut......and the Democrat Party cant bring itself to cut a frickin Cowboy Poetry Contest.



We have a bunch of (D)runken sailors asking for a bigger credit limit.........good thing that isnt exacerbating the debt issue.

Im betting the (D)runken sailors will be very careful with OUR MONEY...... this time........



Well 400 lbs and 30 years later........when you still have the former human/liberal blob........maybe its time for something a bit more drastic.
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So who started two wars costing trillions of dollars while simultaneously cutting income taxes costing additional trillions?

Who was in charge then?

Remind me of that...

Presidents who have added the most to the national debt, post WW2, by % (completed terms):

1. George W. Bush (2nd term)
2. George H.W. Bush
3. Ronald Reagan (1st term)
4. Ronald Reagan (2nd term)
5. George W. Bush (1st term)

Hmmm....
 
FilmFestGuy said:
So who started two wars costing trillions of dollars while simultaneously cutting income taxes costing additional trillions?

Who was in charge then?

Remind me of that...

Presidents who have added the most to the national debt, post WW2, by % (completed terms):

1. George W. Bush (2nd term)
2. George H.W. Bush
3. Ronald Reagan (1st term)
4. Ronald Reagan (2nd term)
5. George W. Bush (1st term)

Hmmm....
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Doesn't Obama have all these folks beat, combined?
 
FilmFestGuy said:
So who started two wars costing trillions of dollars while simultaneously cutting income taxes costing additional trillions?

Who was in charge then?

Remind me of that...

Presidents who have added the most to the national debt, post WW2, by % (completed terms):

1. George W. Bush (2nd term)
2. George H.W. Bush
3. Ronald Reagan (1st term)
4. Ronald Reagan (2nd term)
5. George W. Bush (1st term)

Hmmm....
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It might be wiser to look at the mess and what can be done about it rather than trying to affix blame.

The job of the American people right now to look forward and decide who can best fix the problems which face them,if they are at all fixable. If they are looking for those who can effortlessly apportion blame to others while accepting none of the responsibility, then the people should re-elect Barrack Obama.
 
hazlnut said:
I have no problem with tax credits and other subsidies to corporations that deliver some new product/service that vastly improves the U.S. economy - directly/indirectly.

e.g. Verizon Wireless advance cell infrastructure. Over the last decade my cell phone bill has gone down relative to the amount of cell related products and services I am able to receive.

Re: Moving Elsewhere - when NAFTA kicked in and GM moved plants to Mexico, did we get better cars at a better price? No. But when Toyota built plants assembly plants in Alabama, we got JOBS and better cars at a better price.

The reduced cost in satellite telecommunications have resulted in the outsourcing of call centers. We lose jobs, but prices go down as companies lower their overhead. A trade off.

Jobs only move overseas when their is a benefit to the company. Cheap labor, etc.
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Cheap labor is not the only factor in companies moving.
 
This retarded thread is pretty indicative of why things never get done in congress.
 
Grant said:
It might be wiser to look at the mess and what can be done about it rather than trying to affix blame.

The job of the American people right now to look forward and decide who can best fix the problems which face them,if they are at all fixable. If they are looking for those who can effortlessly apportion blame to others while accepting none of the responsibility, then the people should re-elect Barrack Obama.
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If you'd looked at my follow-up post, you'd see what I was doing. It was only in response to someone else saying it's all Democrats' fault.

The fault for this mess is shared. As should the burdens for the necessary fixes.
 
Seems to me that many older USA citizens had thought they could outrun the problems. They had no problem with increasing spending and debt and putting the consequences off onto future generations. Now they might have to make a small sacrifice and are going balistic. Pretty sad, IMO.

.
 
danarhea said:
This is not the time for political ideologues and a "my way or the highway" approach. The economic health of the United States of America is at stake here,
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No economist or politician really knows what the tipping point is, and the non-partisan ones will clearly admit it, for the simple reason that NOBODY can possibly know what is going to happen in the mysterious future, so why the gloom and doom? Just sit back and enjoy the roller-coaster ride.

ricksfolly
 
FilmFestGuy said:
Not quite...but close.

I know it looks like a rant, but it was just a return rant.

This is both party's fault and both parties have to fix it.
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check your math. It is both sides that have put us in this situation, however the size of the problem has exploded under this admisistration. To not acknowledge this is to close your eyes to the truth.
 
also, one side has offered solutions, ryan and hr1

you may demonize, you may demagogue, but at least the house has MOVED

the party in power, meanwhile, has presented SQUAT

it's two years since the united states senate has fulfilled its fundamental responsibilities by producing a budget

in critical times like ours

leadership, anyone?
 
FilmFestGuy said:
If you'd looked at my follow-up post, you'd see what I was doing. It was only in response to someone else saying it's all Democrats' fault.

The fault for this mess is shared. As should the burdens for the necessary fixes.
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I took it in sequence and saw your subsequent post too late.
 
The Prof said:
also, one side has offered solutions, ryan and hr1

you may demonize, you may demagogue, but at least the house has MOVED

the party in power, meanwhile, has presented SQUAT

it's two years since the united states senate has fulfilled its fundamental responsibilities by producing a budget

in critical times like ours

leadership, anyone?
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Do you not read?

Obama Unveils Deficit Plan - WSJ.com
Chart: What Obama's Deficit Reduction Plan Looks Like - Derek Thompson - Business - The Atlantic

That's just a couple of the 1.8 million articles that come up when you type in "Obama deficit reduction plan".

April 14 was possibly the busiest day of my life, and I even knew that he proposed his plan then.

You may not like it, but to say there's no alternate proposal to Ryan's is counter-factual.
 
ricksfolly said:
And you know all of this how? Partisan politics are not fact, more like fantasy...

ricksfolly
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The debt has increased by $4 trillion in 2.5 years. That's the entire increase we saw under 8 years of Bush.
 
ricksfolly said:
And you know all of this how? Partisan politics are not fact, more like fantasy...

ricksfolly
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are you serious? this has nothing to do politics, just math. Sorry if you have a problem looking at facts but not surprised.
 
april 14 was A SPEECH

where is it today---a PLANK in a campaign platform

meanwhile, ON PAPER, today:

Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad (D-N.D.) says he has no immediate plans to mark up a budget, as members of his committee continue to disagree over spending cuts and tax increases.

Conrad said he has additional meetings scheduled with his colleagues Tuesday afternoon and will make an announcement in the coming days on a possible markup.

Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.) cast doubt on whether Conrad's effort will succeed.

"I don't know there is going to be a Conrad budget," Baucus said.

Conrad said there are many issues that need to be resolved in the broad document that covers discretionary entitlement spending levels and tax policy.

Democrats on the Budget panel have clashed over the balance of spending cuts to tax increases. Conrad increased the proportion of tax increases to spending cuts after liberal members of his panel, including Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.), criticized his initial draft.

Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.), a centrist on the panel facing reelection next year, has raised concerns about advancing a budget plan with as much as $2 trillion in tax increases over the next 10 years.
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Senate Dems' budget in limbo - The Hill's On The Money

conrad is reid's budget chair, the senate equivalent of ryan

baucus chairs finance

when barack the slasher actually HAS something he'll produce A DOCUMENT

there's a reason HE can't, CONRAD can't

it's been two years since the party in power in the us senate has produced A BUDGET

in times like these

and it doesn't look like 2012 will see one either

meanwhile, the house has PASSED hr1 and ryan, both of which harry sits on

if something isn't done now to fundamentally restructure our budget then our big 3 federal social programs (and state and federal pensions too) will simply not be there in their current forms for the next generation

leadership, anyone?
 
danarhea said:
This is not the time for political ideologues and a "my way or the highway" approach. The economic health of the United States of America is at stake here, and while the US scrambles in a battle to avoid default on the debt, a battle which is uncertain, I consider whoever fiddles while our economy burns to be traitors.

Right now, this has turned into a battle between Wall Street and the crazies who have hijacked the Republican Party. The way I see it, if Republicans want to destroy their own party, they are on the right track to do it. But destroying America's economy, because they are not getting what they want at this time, is a morally reprehensible act, which will have dire consequences. Time to be responsible. If you (and I am talking to the jihad wing of the GOP here) want to act like babies and brats, you should do it on your own dime, and not that of your country. Just agree to raise the debt limit, and then feel free to engage in your ideological war later, during the 2012 election campaign. This is neither the time nor the place for it.

Article is here.
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I hope the Republicans win and the US defaults. It would be great for my investments.
 
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