• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military chap

Councilman

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Messages
4,454
Reaction score
1,657
Location
Riverside, County, CA.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
SuperStock_1323-898.jpg

One of the main reasons for this change is PUBLIC opinion as we move closer to the 2012 election, and this would have messed up Obama but good.

The story said it was,
social conservatives in the House of Representatives
, but I think it was the people in general because Gongress doesn't get to pick gets the Oval Office, normally.

So congrats to all those who spoke up on the subject.

U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military chapels

The U.S. Navy has reversed a decision allowing chaplains to perform same-sex unions at military chapels once the Department of Defense ends its ban on gays serving openly in the armed forces.

Tuesday night's turnaround was largely fueled by pressure from social conservatives in the House of Representatives and came just a day after gay rights advocates applauded the Navy's decision to start training chaplains to perform the civil unions.
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

I know God forbid we support our service members right? They might get all uppity and do something crazy like continue to honorably serve the nation.

Also nice job flat out admitting to making stuff up to serve your opinion. The article says "social conservatives in the House of Representatives" but you say "No I think it was public opinion, so I'm just gonna go ahead and say it was public opinion." But then again you did have a reason for believing it was really the public, that being, "Gongress doesn't get to pick gets the Oval Office, normally." If that's not a water tight argument I dont know what is
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

I don't see a particularly good reason to ban a chaplain from performing a marriage ceremony.
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

SuperStock_1323-898.jpg

One of the main reasons for this change is PUBLIC opinion as we move closer to the 2012 election, and this would have messed up Obama but good.

The story said it was, , but I think it was the people in general because Gongress doesn't get to pick gets the Oval Office, normally.

So congrats to all those who spoke up on the subject.

Why do you hate our servicemen and women?
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

I know God forbid we support our service members right? They might get all uppity and do something crazy like continue to honorably serve the nation.

Also nice job flat out admitting to making stuff up to serve your opinion. The article says "social conservatives in the House of Representatives" but you say "No I think it was public opinion, so I'm just gonna go ahead and say it was public opinion." But then again you did have a reason for believing it was really the public, that being, "Gongress doesn't get to pick gets the Oval Office, normally." If that's not a water tight argument I dont know what is

I did leave out "The Defense of Marriage Act" which would have made it illegal had the Navy gone forward and Obama permitted it ti stand.

Besides the Navy nor the White House will ever admit they felt pressure or were doing anything for political reasons.

Obama wants you to think he is looking out for you when all his past mistakes, show otherwise.
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

Why do you hate our servicemen and women?

I hate that the Left is using us to shape social policy.
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

I hate that the Left is using us to shape social policy.

I hate that the right uses stupid lines like this to justify stupidity,
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

I don't see a particularly good reason to ban a chaplain from performing a marriage ceremony.

At this point in time, it breaks the law. That's why.

Change the law first, then allow.
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

I hate that the right uses stupid lines like this to justify stupidity,

It's faltering to know the Right is quoting me, though. Link?
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

Why do you hate our servicemen and women?

Where do you Liberals get off making stuff up that is not there. I reported my opinon of the facts.
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

At this point in time, it breaks the law. That's why.

Change the law first, then allow.

Actually, it does not break the law. Strike one.
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

Where do you Liberals get off making stuff up that is not there. I reported my opinon of the facts.

And your opinion limits what our service people can do for no rational reason. So I repeat, why do you hate our servicemen and women?
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

Where do you Liberals get off making stuff up that is not there. I reported my opinon of the facts.

They don't understand the difference between social policy and national defense policy, that just because you support a social cause doesn't mean it's appropriate to thrust it everywhere.
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

At this point in time, it breaks the law. That's why.

Change the law first, then allow.

DOMA would not be violated by allowing chaplains to perform same sex marriage ceremonies in states that recognize them. In fact, according to conservatives, DOMA is suppose to respect each states respective definition of marriage. Chaplains marrying same sex couples would in no way be recognzied by the federal government and therefore it is not a violation of DOMA.
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

Actually, it does not break the law. Strike one.

It doesn not break the law if the marriage is not a legal one, since all military falls under Federal not State law, it would be illegal to marry two same sex individuals in a legal sense. However, it is not illegal for two same sex individuals to have a marriage within a Church or whatever religious group they belong to if that group doesn't mind. There's really two types of marriage in this country, the kind where the state acknowledges you are married which matters for things like death, taxes, etc and the actual religious kind which is only recognized by whatever Church performs it.

For example my parents were married in a Church, and the church records show them being married on that date, and as far as the church was concerned they were married. However as far as the gov't was concerned they were still unmarried until a few months later when they were "legally married" by the state
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

It doesn not break the law if the marriage is not a legal one, since all military falls under Federal not State law, it would be illegal to marry two same sex individuals in a legal sense. However, it is not illegal for two same sex individuals to have a marriage within a Church or whatever religious group they belong to if that group doesn't mind. There's really two types of marriage in this country, the kind where the state acknowledges you are married which matters for things like death, taxes, etc and the actual religious kind which is only recognized by whatever Church performs it.

For example my parents were married in a Church, and the church records show them being married on that date, and as far as the church was concerned they were married. However as far as the gov't was concerned they were still unmarried until a few months later when they were "legally married" by the state

The service does not make them married. The service is just a ceremony, much like a re-enlistment service. You are re-enlisted when you sign your name, but the little service you can have is nice, but does not make you re-enlisted,
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

DOMA would not be violated by allowing chaplains to perform same sex marriage ceremonies in states that recognize them. In fact, according to conservatives, DOMA is suppose to respect each states respective definition of marriage. Chaplains marrying same sex couples would in no way be recognzied by the federal government and therefore it is not a violation of DOMA.

Does DOMA change USMEPCOM reg 601-23?

d. A member may be separated for violation of laws or regulations regarding sexual conduct of members or
the Armed Forces, for example, engaging or attempting to engage in a homosexual act or soliciting another to
engage in such an act; for stating that he or she is homosexual or bisexual, or words to that effect, or for
marrying or attempting to marry an individual of the same sex.

.....because I wasn't even thinking about DOMA when I posted, but DOMA seems to be your whole world.
 
Last edited:
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

The service does not make them married. The service is just a ceremony, much like a re-enlistment service. You are re-enlisted when you sign your name, but the little service you can have is nice, but does not make you re-enlisted,

The service is actually required to 'solemnize' the commitment, just like a marriage service or oath of office.
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

Man, all these conservatives who won't support our troops. Sad day.
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

As I posted in another threads I don't have anything against Gays getting hitched. I have a younger brother was kicked out of the Army for being gay and he now is dying of aids. That does not change "The Defense of Marriage Act." We have laws and they must be enforced or we become nothing but anarchists,

Repeal the law and I will go along with it no problem but stop making us things you know nothing about. I could be an Ordained Minister for all you know, and might have been for over 30 years.
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

As I posted in another threads I don't have anything against Gays getting hitched. I have a younger brother was kicked out of the Army for being gay and he now is dying of aids. That does not change "The Defense of Marriage Act." We have laws and they must be enforced or we become nothing but anarchists,

Repeal the law and I will go along with it no problem but stop making us things you know nothing about. I could be an Ordained Minister for all you know, and might have been for over 30 years.

DOMA was amending part of the Constitution without actually going through the real proceedure to amend the Constitution. Regardless, what part of a marriage ceremony violates DOMA? I've had a couple good friends who got married in a church even though Colorado doesn't recognize same sex marriage; that against DOMA too?
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

Man, all these conservatives who won't support our troops. Sad day.

Like who?


....................
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

This is the question, does a military chaplain who performs a marriage ceremony for any couple have to sign a state marriage license for that couple or not?

If the answer is yes, then there is no violation of DOMA, since it would be just like any other authorized officiant for the state signing the legal state document, only that particular license would be for a same sex couple instead of an opposite sex couple. The military chaplain signing the license in no way forces the federal government nor the military to recognize the marriage, so there is no violation of DOMA.

For anyone who doesn't know this, a servicemember does not automatically get recognition for any marriage without providing the license, a request chit (although this one may just be the Navy), and whatever other paperwork their particular service might require in order to start getting each individual benefit for being married. It doesn't matter who performed the wedding, the paperwork still has to be submitted in order to receive the benefits. And if it isn't a marriage recognized by the federal government, then the paperwork will just be rejected.
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

Does DOMA change USMEPCOM reg 601-23?



.....because I wasn't even thinking about DOMA when I posted, but DOMA seems to be your whole world.

That is just regulations for Military Entrance Processing Command. With ther changes to Title 10, it will go away if it already has not. The support plan for DADT repeal actually does address this.
 
Re: U.S. Navy reverses decision to allow same-sex marriages by chaplains at military

They don't understand the difference between social policy and national defense policy, that just because you support a social cause doesn't mean it's appropriate to thrust it everywhere.

Allowing military members have a wedding ceremony is somehow "social policy"? People having a wedding is thrusting it upon every one? You cannot just not attend the ceremony?
 
Back
Top Bottom