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McCain: Torture did not lead to bin Laden death

danarhea

danarhea

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WASHINGTON – Waterboarding and other harsh interrogation techniques were not a factor in tracking down Osama bin Laden, a leading Republican senator insisted Thursday.

Sen. John McCain, who spent 5 1/2 years as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam, also rejected the argument that any form of torture is critical to U.S. success in the fight against terrorism.
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Thank you, John, for setting the record straight on this issue.

Article is here.
 
I thought water boarding KSM led, ultimately, to bin Laden's currier. As far as Sen. McCain, I'm actually one of the very few conservatives that likes and respects the guy. As Hannity said today, McCain's certainly earned the right to this opinon and every other, whether I agree with him or not.
 
NOOOOOO. Torture is good and in every situation always results in pertinent information which is directly applicable to our war on terror. If it weren't for torture, Osama bin Laden would still be out there and probably teaching squirrels to fly planes into our buildings! And that's why I say we need to torture every squirrel we come across, they'll lead us to their leader and help us become safer because torture means our safety.
 
The little man is right because President Bush didn't see it as torture.

The thing is it was said just a few days ago that waterboarding was only used on 3 people in Cuba. Who knows what happened in other Countries when the CIA was taking them there for "questioning."
 
Councilman said:
The little man is right because President Bush didn't see it as torture.

The thing is it was said just a few days ago that waterboarding was only used on 3 people in Cuba. Who knows what happened in other Countries when the CIA was taking them there for "questioning."
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Actually, I believe that Bush came around and saw waterboarding as torture. I believe that this, among other reasons, is why Bush kicked the Neocons to the curb during his second term. Had Bush not been limited to 2 terms, I believe that his third term would have been a great one. The Neocons were the albatross around his neck.
 
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X Factor said:
I thought water boarding KSM led, ultimately, to bin Laden's currier. As far as Sen. McCain, I'm actually one of the very few conservatives that likes and respects the guy. As Hannity said today, McCain's certainly earned the right to this opinon and every other, whether I agree with him or not.
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I admire John McCain. Just don't like how he flips on issues like clockwork.
 
StillBallin75 said:
I admire John McCain. Just don't like how he flips on issues like clockwork.
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he didn't really. he momentarily lost his mind when he voted on that bill, but he never said he condoned torture.
 
liblady said:
he didn't really. he momentarily lost his mind when he voted on that bill, but he never said he condoned torture.
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I'm not talking about torture specifically. I'm talking about McCain's rhetoric in general. I support his position on torture.
 
Ikari said:
NOOOOOO. Torture is good and in every situation always results in pertinent information which is directly applicable to our war on terror. If it weren't for torture, Osama bin Laden would still be out there and probably teaching squirrels to fly planes into our buildings! And that's why I say we need to torture every squirrel we come across, they'll lead us to their leader and help us become safer because torture means our safety.
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And since cats catch an occasional squirrel, they must also be waterboarded, just in case a squirrel passed along information before the cat killed it.

Caption: Kitten being picked up for harsh interrogation. Who knows what evil lurks in it's mind? We are about to find out. Terrorist or not, we will drown it, and let God sort it out. :mrgreen:
cat-picture-kuan-yin-kitten-fofurasfelinas.jpg
 
danarhea said:
Thank you, John, for setting the record straight on this issue.

Article is here.
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In a statement, Mukasey said McCain "is simply incorrect," on the bid Laden leads and interrogation.
Mukasey said Mohammed disclosed the nickname of the courier "along with a wealth of other information, some of which was used to stop terror plots then in progress." He said another detainee, captured in Iraq, disclosed that the courier was a trusted operative of Mohammed's successor.
Mukasey, who was President George W. Bush's last attorney general, said former intelligence officials have said that up to 2006 valuable leads came from prisoners who were subjected to harsh techniques, including waterboarding.
"Harsh interrogation techniques were both effective and lawful," Mukasey said.
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Who to believe?

McCain's flip flops ThinkProgress » John McCain’s 44 Flip-Flops

The smallish old man needs to retire and spend more time on his stamp collection
 
ric27 said:
Who to believe?

McCain's flip flops ThinkProgress » John McCain’s 44 Flip-Flops

The smallish old man needs to retire and spend more time on his stamp collection
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Time to put this lie to bed:

Khalid Sheik Muhammed (KSM) did not talk, according to the AP, when he was tortured, but rather months later when he was questioned using humane interrogation techniques.

When asked on “Morning Joe” if KSM had provided information on the courier due to torture, John Brennan, the President’s Counter Terrorism advisor said, “not to my knowledge.” Brennan was later asked on FOX News if KSM and al-Libi had provided the initial information about the courier. “If only it were that simple,” he said.
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In other words, according to Bush's own counter terrorism adviser, torture did not lead to the whereabouts of bin Laden's courier.

Some will argue that it was only thanks to the waterboarding that KSM and al-Libi were willing to talk at all. This notion is rejected by the more than 75 interrogators, questioners and debriefers with the military, the FBI and the CIA who I have spoken to in depth about this subject since the revelations of abuse at Abu Ghraib. I have yet to speak to a professional interrogator who believes that torture is an effective means of questioning suspected terrorists.
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Consider other high profile captures and kills in the war on terrorism. The former insurgent who fingered Saddam Hussein voluntarily drew his U.S. interrogator a map showing exactly what spider hole the former dictator was hiding in. And the Al Qaeda operative who pointed US forces to Al Zarqawi, the former head of Al Qaeda in Iraq, told his interrogators the name of Zarqawi’s spiritual advisor and what kind of car he drove. (Ultimately coalition forces followed the advisor’s car to Zarqawi.)

This level of cooperation is unthinkable if torture is used. And it leaves one wondering if we might have found Osama Bin Laden earlier if KSM and al-Libi had been interrogated by the FBI’s subject matter expert or another interrogator committed to using humane techniques from the start.
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From this article.

But KSM DID do something for the US. He caused a crapload of terror alerts due to conditions that did not even exist, while being tortured.

From the Red Cross investigation, in PDF, page 37.

And, once again, I stress the words of Bush's own counter terrorism adviser. The info only came to light months after torture on the subjects was discontinued. But why would Yoo, Gonzales, and other Bush administration figures say otherwise? An attempt to avoid future prosecution for war crimes, I suspect. And don't forget that we convicted and punished Japanese generals after WWII for waterboarding US prisoners of war. Once the truth finally unravels, a few people are going to have a hell of a lot to answer for, and I believe that they know it.

As for John McCain being, in your words, a smallish man, I find your disrespect of his service to our nation, both as a soldier, and as a public servant, nothing short of absolutely despicable. McCain is a true American hero, who survived 5 and a half years of being tortured, and understands exactly what it is, and is willing to speak out on it. That kind of heroism is something you will never ever understand.
 
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danarhea said:
Time to put this lie to bed:

In other words, according to Bush's own counter terrorism adviser, torture did not lead to the whereabouts of bin Laden's courier.



From this article.

But KSM DID do something for the US. He caused a crapload of terror alerts due to conditions that did not even exist, while being tortured.

From the Red Cross investigation, in PDF, page 37.

And, once again, I stress the words of Bush's own counter terrorism adviser. The info only came to light months after torture on the subjects was discontinued. But why would Yoo, Gonzales, and other Bush administration figures say otherwise? An attempt to avoid future prosecution for war crimes, I suspect. And don't forget that we convicted and punished Japanese generals after WWII for waterboarding US prisoners of war. Once the truth finally unravels, a few people are going to have a hell of a lot to answer for, and I believe that they know it.

As for John McCain being, in your words, a smallish man, I find that despicable. McCain is a true American hero, something you will never know.
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Hey!! There's no room for the truth in politics!
 
danarhea said:
McCain is a true American hero, who survived 5 and a half years of being tortured, and understands exactly what it is, and is willing to speak out on it. That kind of heroism is something you will never ever understand.
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McCain's as slimy a politician as you're going to find. The issue with McCain is that he doesn't seem to have principals about anything. He's the text book definition of the word "politician" meaning that everything is on the table with the guy. He'll whore any issue out for political expediency. I have no doubt in my mind that he'd sign another AWB if it was politically expedient for him to do so.

I'll give you that he's been in uniform and bled for America, but thats about it and yeah, if you have to have a liberal democrat in the white house, it might as well be a McCain
 
Despite GOP Claims, Immoral Torture Slowed Down Effort to Find Bin Laden | Civil Liberties | AlterNet

Matthew Alexander said:
The debate is skewed at this point. And one reason why is because we don’t know all the details, and secondly, because a lot is being left out of the conversation. And let me talk a little bit about that. One of the things that people aren’t talking about is the fact that one of the people that was confronted with this information that bin Laden had a courier is Skaykh al-Libi, who was held in a CIA secret prison and was tortured and who gave his CIA interrogators the name of the courier as being Maulawi Jan. And the CIA chased down that information and found out that person didn’t exist, that al-Libi had lied. And nobody is talking about the fact that al-Libi caused us to waste resources and time by chasing a false lead because he was tortured.

---
That’s correct. And, you know, when you look at the use of waterboarding and enhanced interrogation techniques in the case of the trail of evidence that leads to Osama bin Laden, what you find is, time and time again, it slows down the chase. In 2003, when we—or '02, when we have Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, we have the person most likely to be able to lead us to bin Laden, and yet we don't get to him until 2011. You know, by any interrogation standard, eight years is a long time to not get information from people, and that’s probably directly related to the fact that he was waterboarded 183 times.

The other piece of the story that we don’t know yet is we don’t know how the CIA learned the real family name of the courier, who again, his nickname was Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti. And we don’t know how the CIA got his real family name, which really was the key piece of information that led us to be able to monitor phone calls and emails and discover his first name, his full name, which led to us finding him and then him leading us to the compound. So, until we have that information, which we don’t even know if it came from interrogations or if it came from a source, then we really don’t have a complete picture of how we got to bin Laden.
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Not sure how someone without an HCS clearance- at the least- would know either way. I do find it odd, though, how strange it is that people say torturing (or even waterboarding, or whatever) is entirely ineffective. It seems as if they, being against something on moral grounds, must also insist that it doesn't work either, as if deep down they don't believe the moral argument is strong enough on its own.
 
The Real John McCain is Back!!

That is the McCain I would have voted for, a man of integrity that doesn't kowtow to the GOP Fox base.
 
Councilman said:
The little man is right because President Bush didn't see it as torture.

The thing is it was said just a few days ago that waterboarding was only used on 3 people in Cuba. Who knows what happened in other Countries when the CIA was taking them there for "questioning."
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Hold on to the LIES.

Push the idea that Rummy and Cheney are liars, out of your mind.

Watch more Fox.
 
hazlnut said:
Oh, no... Oh, no... Fox, Rummy, Cheney...Your heros lied to you... What will you do?

Cover your ears and go: Blah, blah, blah... I can't hear you John McCain.
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I'm assuming that you are intelligent enough to have figured out that we are on opposite ends of the political spectrum.

I do not define myself as Rep. I am a conservative. I have been hugely disappointed by the Rep party in recent years. They abandoned conservative principles and adopted the spending policies of the Dems. There is much I have liked and admired about President Bush, but he and the Republican majority (House and Senate) spent money like Dems in an effort to have both guns and butter. In my way, as much as I could, I opposed them when I thought they were wrong (bailouts, immigration, etc)

So no, I don't place party above country, I place one philosophy, conservatism, over another philosophy, socialism. And it is not with a disregard for the lives of your family and friends, it is with a recognition that the longer and more entrenched Obama and his ilk become, the worse off your friends and family will be.
 
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ric27 said:
I'm assuming that you are intelligent enough to have figured out that we are on opposite ends of the political spectrum.

I do not define myself as Rep. I am a conservative. I have been hugely disappointed by the Rep party in recent years. They abandoned conservative principles
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You mean like telling the truth...??????

Fox Falsely Suggests There's No Doubt That Enhanced Interrogation Techniques Aided In Bin Laden Capture

Face it, you've been lied to. Obama and honorable policies caught Bin Laden.
 
ric27 said:
I'd suggest you look into Obama's current assassination list. Honorable policies that'll make you, a proud Obama supporter
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Well, for the record, I am against the drone attacks that Obama has been authorizing. Those attacks have gotten a few terrorists, but many innocent civilians too. Frankly, this is one of the reasons that Obama is not an honorable man.
 
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