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Two imams pulled from plane bound for North Carolina

alexa said:
So you are saying you are a bigoted nation that no longer allows Muslims on areoplanes and you seem to find that no big thing because you also engage in even more bigotry. Not all of you yet, so there may still be hope but you are presenting a pretty sick picture of your country.
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Sure, why not. Let's go with that reading.

Do you disagree?
 
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Were making progress, feelings divulged, in honesty and sympathy....
 
spud_meister said:
Right, and considering that A) They stuck the imams on the next flight, and B) That nothing happened on that next flight, it seems to me that the pilot's fears were entirely unfounded.
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Perhaps, but as I noted they don't take such serious action and go through the post flight scrutiny for fun. Obviously there was something that made the pilots turn around. I don't know what it is and neither do you. I'd rather have pilots take such action than ignore signals that could lead to disaster.

And just for argument sake, let's suppose they were to take some type of nefarious action, do you really think that after being booted from the first flight they would take action on a second with the attention surrounding them? I wonder if an Air Marshall was put on the second flight, and if one was... does it illustrate prudence or bigotry in your and the other naysayers eyes?

.
 
People will do anything to justify their bigotry and their distrust of others that they do not understand.

The constitution and the bill of rights did not come with a sticky note on the front saying "Please disregard these rights for muslims".

This is more then "you don't have the right to fly". This is about freedom of movement, freedom of the mind, and most importantly, freedom of religion, to not be persecuted for ones religion. Which is what happened in this case.

People "didnt like the look of them" is not a good enough reason to not allow them on the plane after they'd already been screened again.

Shame on the airline.

Shame on the pilot.

And shame on any of you that would justify this behaviour, you make me sick.
 
zimmer said:
Perhaps, but as I noted they don't take such serious action and go through the post flight scrutiny for fun. Obviously there was something that made the pilots turn around. I don't know what it is and neither do you. I'd rather have pilots take such action than ignore signals that could lead to disaster.
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That's presuming there were signals, rather than just a dislike of Muslims, but both are presumptions until we know better, though what we know now favours my presumption.
And just for argument sake, let's suppose they were to take some type of nefarious action, do you really think that after being booted from the first flight they would take action on a second with the attention surrounding them? I wonder if an Air Marshall was put on the second flight, and if one was... does it illustrate prudence or bigotry in your and the other naysayers eyes?
.
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Well if there nefarious scheme, it obviously wasn't discovered, or they wouldn't have been put on the second flight, so what reason would they have to not go through with it. If the Marshall was put on becuase they were suspect, it would be prudence, if he was put on just because they were Muslims, then bigotry.
 
Shame on people who assume there is no way that the pilots, stewards or anyone involved had any possible reason to be concerned.
 
Jetboogieman said:
People will do anything to justify their bigotry and their distrust of others that they do not understand.

The constitution and the bill of rights did not come with a sticky note on the front saying "Please disregard these rights for muslims".

This is more then "you don't have the right to fly". This is about freedom of movement, freedom of the mind, and most importantly, freedom of religion, to not be persecuted for ones religion. Which is what happened in this case.

People "didnt like the look of them" is not a good enough reason to not allow them on the plane after they'd already been screened again.

Shame on the airline.

Shame on the pilot.

And shame on any of you that would justify this behaviour, you make me sick.
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Do you know why the pilot pulled the plane off the taxi-way and went back to the gate? Do you? I don't.

You don't either, so your grandstanding is meaningless, especially in light of who has been attacking us and how and where.

I find it hilarious you bring up The Constitution/Bill of Rights when folks like you ignore them repeatedly.

.
 
ecofarm said:
Shame on people who assume there is no way that the pilots, stewards or anyone involved had any possible reason to be concerned.
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What was their reason? Other than the gut feeling an imam gives them?
 
zimmer said:
I find it hilarious you bring up The Constitution/Bill of Rights when folks like you ignore them repeatedly.
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Please cite any time I have personally violated the civil liberties of a citizen of the United States.

Please and Thank You.
 
spud_meister said:
That's presuming there were signals, rather than just a dislike of Muslims, but both are presumptions until we know better, though what we know now favours my presumption.
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You do not know, nor do I.

Well if there nefarious scheme, it obviously wasn't discovered, or they wouldn't have been put on the second flight, so what reason would they have to not go through with it. If the Marshall was put on becuase they were suspect, it would be prudence, if he was put on just because they were Muslims, then bigotry.
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Why? Muslims are responsible for endless terror attacks and planned attacks. You don't believe in profiling? I do, and if there is a flight with 100 Grannies and a flight with some Muslims, guess which flight I'd put the Air Marshall on? And you?

.
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SE102 said:
What was their reason? Other than the gut feeling an imam gives them?
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I got an idea. Instead of proposing "what could it be except pure bigotry?", why don't you provide evidence that bigotry was the motive.

You're the one who thinks he knows what happened, for sure. Support YOUR claim. With actual evidence.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Please cite any time I have personally violated the civil liberties of a citizen of the United States.

Please and Thank You.
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Though a kanuckistani resident, perhaps citizen... you do support socialized medicine do you not? Turning Doctors into wards of the state?

.
 
zimmer said:
Why? Muslims are responsible for endless terror attacks and planned attacks. You don't believe in profiling? I do, and if there is a flight with 100 Grannies and a flight with some Muslims, guess which flight I'd put the Air Marshall on? And you?

.
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How do you know the grannies aren't Muslims? It's a religion, not an ethnicity, anyone can be a Muslim, and thus profiling for Muslims is rather difficult, unless you check for foreskins, or offer them pork, but then, that can apply to Jews too. :lol:
 
zimmer said:
Though a kanuckistani resident, perhaps citizen... you do support socialized medicine do you not? Turning Doctors into wards of the state?

.
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That's only one way of looking at it.

You of course can't answer the question. And your statement was completely and utterly rediculous.

But please continue.
 
zimmer said:
Why? Muslims are responsible for endless terror attacks and planned attacks. You don't believe in profiling? I do, and if there is a flight with 100 Grannies and a flight with some Muslims, guess which flight I'd put the Air Marshall on? And you?
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After 7/7 I was on a bus when a Muslim came on with a back pack and fiddled with it looking nervous. I got nervous and even considered telling the bus driver. He was probably nervous thinking everyone will be thinking I am a terrorist. Muslims get nervous about people being terrorists too. We all get neurotic after something like that but that is no reason or excuse to take it out on all Muslims.

As infinite said some time ago, airport security is where you should be checking. If you have doubts that your security is efficient make sure it is. Otherwise you will see the bogeyman everywhere and harm the innocent.
 
Jetboogieman said:
That's only one way of looking at it.

You of course can't answer the question. And your statement was completely and utterly rediculous.

But please continue.
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I answered you claim. What is ridiculous about these pilots bringing the plane back to the gate? What evidence do you have that it was bigotry? You have none, one way or the other... nor do I, but I suspect the pilots did this with some basis. The scrutiny (outside of the press) they would have to go through afterwards isn't Mickey Mouse. They will be grilled.

As noted, the easy thing would have been to take off and hope all went well. This BS on the part of folks like you could end up costing people their lives in the future BTW... for a weaker individual just might take off and hope for the best, and that hope might not be fulfilled next time.

You seem to fail to realize we are at war with terrorists, we just put a bullet through the head of the terror idiots leader, and they have sought revenge. How do you know some Arabic speaking individual didn't overhear these two speaking of revenge or who knows what? You don't and I don't. There are millions of possible scenarios. Millions... one is the pilots are both bigots, and their crew too.

The seriousness of their actions makes me believe they are not, and I subscribe to the "better safe than sorry" school of aviation.

.
 
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alexa said:
After 7/7 I was on a bus when a Muslim came on with a back pack and fiddled with it looking nervous. I got nervous and even considered telling the bus driver. He was probably nervous thinking everyone will be thinking I am a terrorist. Muslims get nervous about people being terrorists too. We all get neurotic after something like that but that is no reason or excuse to take it out on all Muslims.

As infinite said some time ago, airport security is where you should be checking. If you have doubts that your security is efficient make sure it is. Otherwise you will see the bogeyman everywhere and harm the innocent.
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No I really am everywhere... :ninja:
 
zimmer said:
I answered you claim. What is ridiculous about these pilots bringing the plane back to the gate? What evidence do you have that it was bigotry? You have none, one way or the other... nor do I, but I suspect the pilots did this with some basis. The scrutiny (outside of the press) they would have to go through afterwards isn't Mickey Mouse. They will be grilled.

As noted, the easy thing would have been to take off and hope all went well. This BS on the part of folks like you could end up costing people their lives in the future BTW... for a weaker individual just might take off and hope for the best, and that hope might not be fulfilled next time.

You seem to fail to realize we are at war with terrorists, we just put a bullet through the head of the terror idiots leader, and they have sought revenge. How do you know some Arabic speaking individual didn't overhear these two speaking of revenge or who knows what? You don't and I don't. There are millions of possible scenarios. Millions... one is the pilots are both bigots, and their crew too.

The seriousness of their actions makes me believe they are not, and I subscribe to the "better safe than sorry" school of aviation.

.
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zimmer said:
I find it hilarious you bring up The Constitution/Bill of Rights when folks like you ignore them repeatedly.

.
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So I've never personally violated another persons civil rights.

Good.

I was worried for a second.
 
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alexa said:
If you have doubts that your security is efficient make sure it is. Otherwise you will see the bogeyman everywhere and harm the innocent.
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You mean kinda like you see Islamophobes everywhere? Even where there is no direct evidence and the investigation is still underway?


You mean like jumping to conclusions about people being bigots?


I think I see what you mean. Tell us, what is the problem with your security that is causing you to behave like this.
 
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Sorry, the content of the article is enough. Unless youre privy to super secret pilot-only knowledge as to how the pilor had a good reason. No surprise here, you stand on the side of fearing the random muslim.

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The ethnics r scary!
 
SE102 said:
Sorry, the content of the article is enough.
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Then why is an investigation underway?


No surprise here, you stand on the side of fearing the random muslim... The ethnics r scary!
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You think I'm scared of people from other cultures? Why would you say this? I've lived in Europe and Africa. I've been in Kenya for about a year and I'll be here another. I've travelled and lived in more cultures than you, I'd guess. I plan to settle in Kenya. Let's also note, I'm one of the few people here who are vocal about Herman Cain discriminating against muslims in his cabinet.

Don't get snide with me.
 
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ecofarm said:
Then why is an investigation underway?
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An investigation by the airline into the bigoted pilot and why two passengers were discriminated against so they don't get sued?

Theyre not investigating the imams. Just so you know.
 
You will obviously take any reason to call someone a bigot and claim that people are scared of "ethnics". You went so far as to claim that I, living in the developing world (alone and without sponsor), am scared of other cultures.


Poor show. Get some sleep.
 
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ecofarm said:
You mean kinda like you see Islamophobes everywhere? Even where there is no direct evidence and the investigation is still underway?
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I have not mentioned inslamophobia and I am not sure anyone else has

ecofarm said:
You mean like jumping to conclusions about people being bigots?
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I think you complain too much. I said if it was bigotry http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...ne-bound-north-carolina-5.html#post1059470356


but if the cap fits. You were the one who stated that it was bigotry and only minor compared to other bigotry

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...ne-bound-north-carolina-5.html#post1059470363
 
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