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Osama Bin Laden is dead

LOL He's just a speech writer.

LOL! I know, but it has been suggested that watching the video is going to transform him into a CIA official?
 
I think protecting ourself and wiping out the terrorist that have killed Americans is a good thing. I refuse to support terrorist and will never go out of my way to defend them. In my world they do not deserve respect nor rights. What they deserve is DEATH. If that makes me someone that is not full of warm and fuzzy so called American "values" to you and others? Oh frigging well. I can live with it:)

So in other words, you don't give a rat's ass about the Constitution, treaties that the United States signs, and the Geneva Convention - geez, no better than the enemy.

Now that is an interesting side to take, make all these rules and then break them whenever we feel the need to. Is that how you do your own personal life? Just wondering.
 
Does viewing the link transform him into a CIA official?

And John McCain is a CIA official?

While McCain said
"The trail to bin Laden did not begin with a disclosure from Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times. The first mention of Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti — the nickname of the al-Qaeda courier who ultimately led us to bin Laden — as well as a description of him as an important member of al-Qaeda, came from a detainee held in another country, who we believe was not tortured. None of the three detainees who were waterboarded provided Abu Ahmed’s real name, his whereabouts or an accurate description of his role in al-Qaeda", the fact is that all three 'detainees' were held and waterboarded in another country, probably in Eastern Europe.
 
no, all accounts make that claim
Wrong, conservatives have made it seem that the name of the courier was extracted.

They identified a courier and his brother who lived in Abbottabad, Pakistan, an affluent suburb where a lot of retired Pakistani military officers live.”
Where's the Outrage? » Conservatives Exclaim, “Torture works!” Not so Fast


ksm became the "preeminent source," he conducted "terrorist tutorials," according to cia's ig report as released by holder's doj on the monday preceding aug 29, 2009, as reported by wapo

ksm became an "unparalleled source," helped build a network of 70 names, cluing langley in to aq's methods and mindsets

operatives were rounded up, they were "leveraged" and "cross referenced," using info ksm and others provided

it took years to track down the leads, the key break didn't come for 4 years until a phone call to al kuwaiti was monitored

Sen. John McCain, who spent 5 1/2 years as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam, also rejected the argument that any form of torture is critical to U.S. success in the fight against terrorism.
In an impassioned speech on the Senate floor, the Arizona Republican said former Attorney General Michael Mukasey and others who back those tactics were wrong to claim that waterboarding al-Qaida's No. 3 leader, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, provided information that led to bin Laden's compound in Pakistan.
McCain spoke with an unrivaled record on the issue.


this mission wasn't accomplished by bush or obama, it was made possible by years of legwork and 40 minutes of heroism
Nobody is claiming that Obama should take credit for the CIA's work or the SEALS bravery.

tho both presidents deserve credit for the policies they put in place or left there which made it all happen
Bush wasn't concerned about Bin Laden and made it very clear. It has been pronounced that torture had nothing to do with the information that finally led them to Bin Laden and the information, no matter how compelling would not have been of any use if Obama had not decided to risk going after him. So, no, Bush doesn't deserve any credit. Obama, the CIA and the brave SEALS deserve all the credit.



and the current occupant earns his due for having the guts to make the call
Correct.

it wasn't, it isn't, only 3 were waterboarded, zebaydah, ksm and al nashiri, tho ghul and libi were eit'd
You made a statement thanking "Obama for not dismantling the methods of his predecessor". Sounded like you were claiming that water boarding was still being done, why I made the statement.

all but nashiri provided crucial leads that allowed us to get ubl

but eit's are only part of the story---detention, the maintenance of gitmo, aspects of the patriot act (warrantless wiretapping)---also contributed to this assassination
Many are not factual, just repeated stories initiated by those that want to give Bush some credit for something that didn't have anything to do with the information gained.

your questions have been answered a dozen times on this thread, read the links
What questions. I didn't ask any questions, just suggested that water boarding was no longer done in response to your statement thanking Obama for not dismantling the methods of his predecessor. You must have gotten your wires crossed.
 
And John McCain is a CIA official?

While McCain said
"The trail to bin Laden did not begin with a disclosure from Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times. The first mention of Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti — the nickname of the al-Qaeda courier who ultimately led us to bin Laden — as well as a description of him as an important member of al-Qaeda, came from a detainee held in another country, who we believe was not tortured. None of the three detainees who were waterboarded provided Abu Ahmed’s real name, his whereabouts or an accurate description of his role in al-Qaeda", the fact is that all three 'detainees' were held and waterboarded in another country, probably in Eastern Europe.


Perhaps you should offer a link to the words you attribute to McCain, so we can check and make sure McCain said them? Seems like McCain is calling out the lies being made by the Republicans who want to take some credit!


This is what McCain said:
On the floor of the Senate on Thursday, McCain disputed Mukasey's insistence last week that Mohammed "broke like a dam" during 183 waterboardings.
"That is false," McCain said, adding he was told directly by CIA head Leon Panetta that the courier's identity was obtained through other means.
Just like the old days, when McCain frequently engaged in verbal warfare with his fellow Republicans, Mukasey, Bush's former attorney general, soon came back at the senator. He insisted that Mohammed in fact offered up the nickname of the courier _ al Kuwaiti _ "along with a wealth of other information, some of which was used to stop terror plots then in progress."
McCain wasn't backing down on Friday, elaborating for CBS.
Waterboarding Mohammed "actually produced false and misleading information," he said, adding the details provided by the alleged terrorist ultimately proved untrue.
"The fact is that this courier was identified first by a person who was not been held in U.S. custody," McCain said. "In fact, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed not only did not tell the truth about this courier, he even tried to mislead the interrogators by saying that the courier had retired, gotten married, and lived in Peshawar."
McCain added that the staff of the Senate intelligence committee have told him that the most solid information on bin Laden came via non-coercive means.


McCain added that the staff of the Senate intelligence committee have told him that the most solid information on bin Laden came via non-coercive means.


McCain disputes Republican claims torture helped U.S. hunt for bin Laden - 1310News
 
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of course, that was all before he resorted to assassination

Is this supposed to be the latest attack - calling it assassination? Oh well, then Bush must be part to blame, since he had so much to do with it!
roflmao.gif
 
These scenes provide previously unpublicized details about the transformation of the man known to U.S. officials as KSM from an avowed and truculent enemy of the United States into what the CIA called its "preeminent source" on al-Qaeda. This reversal occurred after Mohammed was subjected to simulated drowning and prolonged sleep deprivation, among other harsh interrogation techniques.

"KSM, an accomplished resistor, provided only a few intelligence reports prior to the use of the waterboard, and analysis of that information revealed that much of it was outdated, inaccurate or incomplete," according to newly unclassified portions of a 2004 report by the CIA's then-inspector general released Monday by the Justice Department.

The evidence is clear: Mohammed cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent, only when his spirit was broken in the month after his capture March 1, 2003, as the inspector general's report and other documents released this week indicate.

"Certain of the techniques seemed to have little effect, whereas waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the two most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information," [CIA Inspector General John Helgerson] said in an interview. Cross-referencing material from different detainees, and leveraging information from one to extract more detail from another, the CIA and FBI went on to round up operatives both in the United States and abroad.

"Detainees in mid-2003 helped us build a list of 70 individuals -- many of whom we had never heard of before -- that al-Qaeda deemed suitable for Western operations," according to the CIA summary. Mohammed was an unparalleled source in deciphering al-Qaeda's strategic doctrine, key operatives and likely targets, the summary said, including describing in "considerable detail the traits and profiles" that al-Qaeda sought in Western operatives and how the terrorist organization might conduct surveillance in the United States.

How a Detainee Became An Asset - washingtonpost.com
 
Is this supposed to be the latest attack - calling it assassination?

attack?

LOL!

hardly

it's the highest praise many americans have ever given him
 

Did you check the date on the article you linked? It is like almost 2 years old.

From your link (actually I had to go seek the story myself because your link is the url to the last page and I couldn't get to the first page from there:

How a Detainee Became An Asset
Sept. 11 Plotter Cooperated After Waterboarding
By Peter Finn, Joby Warrick and Julie Tate
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, August 29, 2009




Mohammed, in statements to the International Committee of the Red Cross, said some of the information he provided was untrue.

"During the harshest period of my interrogation I gave a lot of false information in order to satisfy what I believed the interrogators wished to hear in order to make the ill-treatment stop. I later told interrogators that their methods were stupid and counterproductive. I'm sure that the false information I was forced to invent in order to make the ill-treatment stop wasted a lot of their time," he said.

Critics say waterboarding and other harsh methods are unacceptable regardless of their results, and those with detailed knowledge of the CIA's program say the existing assessments offer no scientific basis to draw conclusions about effectiveness.
 
Did you check the date on the article you linked?

yes, august 29, 2009

because the cia's ig report was RELEASED BY HOLDER'S DEPT on the monday preceding aug 29, 2009

your link is the url to the last page and I couldn't get to the first page from there

yes, i accidentally linked to page 3 of wapo's story

it was the article about the ig's report RELEASED BY DOJ on the monday preceding aug 29

the one that, according to the ig, ENDORSED BY HOLDER, declares unequivocally that ksm underwent "transformation," "reversal" in the month after his capture only after "his spirit was broken" by very severe eit's

at which point he "cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent," conducted "terrorist tutorials," became langley's "preeminent source," allowing our agents to "round up operatives" and "leverage and cross reference..."

"waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the two most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information"

those are the ig's words, plain as a pane

as released by eric holder's doj
 
yes, august 29, 2009

because the cia's ig report was RELEASED BY HOLDER'S DEPT on the monday preceding aug 29, 2009



yes, i accidentally linked to page 3 of wapo's story

it was the article about the ig's report RELEASED BY DOJ on the monday preceding aug 29

the one that, according to the ig, ENDORSED BY HOLDER, declares unequivocally that ksm underwent "transformation," "reversal" in the month after his capture only after "his spirit was broken" by very severe eit's

at which point he "cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent," conducted "terrorist tutorials," became langley's "preeminent source," allowing our agents to "round up operatives" and "leverage and cross reference..."

"waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the two most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information"

those are the ig's words, plain as a pane

as released by eric holder's doj

It will be difficult to ascertain the truth, because Holder is now saying he doesn't know, and Rumsfeld, who at first said torture didn't play a part is now claiming that it did. I, for one, am tired of beating this dead horse!

Attorney General Eric Holder was asked during a House Judiciary subcommittee hearing on Tuesday whether any intelligence information that led to the bin Laden mission was the result of enhanced interrogation techniques.

“There was a mosaic of sources that led to the identification of the people who led to [bin Laden],” the attorney general said.

“I understand that,” replied Rep. Dan Lungren (R) of California. “But were any pieces of that mosaic the result of enhanced interrogation techniques?”

Attorney General Holder: “I do not know.”
Did harsh interrogation tactics help US find Osama bin Laden? - CSMonitor.com



Rumsfeld and other US officials say torture didn't help catch bin Laden
Cory Doctorow at 12:16 PM Wednesday, May 4, 2011
Reports from present and former senior US officials, including Donald Rumsfeld, indicate that waterboarding and other forms of torture practiced by the US and its allies were not useful in locating Osama bin Laden. Rather, traditional military intelligence techniques -- covert operatives, surveillance -- yielded the intelligence that led to bin Laden's assassination. This confirms earlier White House discussion of the intelligence that led to ObL's death.

Rumsfeld and other US officials say torture didn't help catch bin Laden - Boing Boing



Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told Fox News’s Sean Hannity that the Obama administration would not have had “the kinds of intelligence that was critically important,” but for the aggressive efforts of the Bush administration.

“Anyone who suggests that the enhanced techniques, let’s be blunt – waterboarding – did not produce an enormous amount of valuable intelligence just isn’t facing the truth,” he said.

Did harsh interrogation tactics help US find Osama bin Laden? - CSMonitor.com
 
Perhaps you should offer a link to the words you attribute to McCain, so we can check and make sure McCain said them? Seems like McCain is calling out the lies being made by the Republicans who want to take some credit!

It was you, in post 1350, which I was quoting.
 
You would consider dropping bombs on a compound as equal to shooting an unarmed man? You make leaps I'm not willing to make.

true, bombing you could kill an innocent person
 
It will be difficult to ascertain the truth, because Holder is now saying he doesn't know, and Rumsfeld, who at first said torture didn't play a part is now claiming that it did. I, for one, am tired of beating this dead horse!

Rumsfeld never said torture did not play a part. You are misinterpreting with what he said. Rumsfeld was certainly in a position to know. Much more so than John McClain.
 
669. Wikileaks and Al Qaida knew “Bin Laden’s death” in advance (5/10/2011)

C.Y. and W.S. will host a wedding party for their son on May 15. That date may be arranged by the Feds. They used to plan a raid on a party when their targets gather together. May is the last month of their project – when Patriot Act will end.

That’s why I think May 15 will be an operation day for Feds to frame a drug case, or a FISA case. (Foreign spy case, it is easy to frame a case when Chinese secret police is bribed to collaborate with the Feds.) It seems they will link me into the case with that vehicle. The couple borrowed the car last Tuesday and kept it since. My wife doesn’t care and said, “they may need it in wedding party”. (She doesn’t drive after her foot is hurt).

Of course, there will be “terror attack” around May 15 to distract. That’s why there was a “Bin Laden’s death” show played on May 1st. It was a forgery stage show created by the Feds, that’s obvious. You can learn it from the following news.

Al-Qaeda Threatens to Unleash ‘Nuclear Hellstorm’ if bin Laden Caught

Posted by Ingrid Turner on Apr 25, 2011

Guantanamo Bay, Cuba (NEWSTABULOUS) – According to news reported by WikiLeaks, threats have been received from al-Qaeda terrorists, stating that they will “unleash a nuclear hellstorm” upon Western countries if Osama bin Laden is ever caught or killed.

Al-Qaeda Threatens to Unleash ‘Nuclear Hellstorm’ if bin Laden Caught | Newstabulous - Headlines




WikiLeaks: Al-Qaida Has Nuclear Weapons
Author: ICWN | Monday, April 25th, 2011


The militant group al-Qaeda claims to have nuclear weapons and did not hesitate to use them if their leader, Osama bin Laden captured or killed by the United States. Not yet known exactly where al-Qaeda’s nuclear weapons are stored, but are found in Europe.


WikiLeaks: Al-Qaida Has Nuclear Weapons

Five days before May 1st, Wikileaks and Al Qaida knew of “Bin Laden’s death” would have happened and announced a warning. The news is a clumsy product of the “disinformation office” of the Feds. It means:

1. Al Qaida have nuclear weapon. They haven’t used it because Bin Laden hadn’t been caught or killed.
2. Wikileaks and Al Qaida knew Bin Laden would be killed several days later so issued a warning.

3.That news can be used to justify the coming “nuke bomb attack”. (or dirty bomb attack)
It proves this was a planned conspiracy. Wikileaks and Al Qaida are all work for the US intelligence. I have already talked about it in “655. Bin Laden and Julian Assange, False flag and living plant (12/7/2010)”.


White House “Situation Room” Photo locked all Obama administration members into that plot. They are bound to a “false flag terror attack” war tank now by the Feds and will be ridden to “nuclear bombing attack” field and “Iran war” hill. That “terror attack” will happen soon, with great opportunity at coming week-ends.
 
AQ is a terror org that attacked us unprovoked. Now you may wish to support them through covering that up as in redefining them as some quasi political entity. It doesn't mean they are.

Largely I agree with you here, though the word provoked is subject to a difference of opinion. If they didn't feel provoked in some way, they likely would have focused some place else. That doesn't excuse there action on any way, but remember, others often hold different views and see things differently.

Sorry dude, you are spinning here....Our own IRS defines a "political org" as follows:


So, you're saying AQ doesn't try to influence government policy?

Please try if you can and explain how AQ fits this criteria in your eyes.

They try to influence government policy.

You'll excuse me if I disagree.

You're free to do so.

I don't think you do Joe.

You believe this country ignoble, and engaged in illegal activity, to the extent that rather than exercise our sovereignty, we should beg UN approval for ever increasing functions that are solely in our own interests.

J, do you think true matters? Or must your national ego be so stroked that you never look honestly at any action? No said anything about begging the UN. See how your lack of national exteem leads you to hyperbole. We signed agreements, some call that law, and we acted as if our word meant nothing. And we did not act in our interests. Frankly, we acted contrary to our interests, hurting ourselfs more than helping. Spent billions, killed thousands upon thousands, and all for very little that helps us in anyway. Infact, compared to how much it helped our enemies and hurt our reputation, we can't really call the entire thing as anything more than a loss as far as our interests go.



You certainly do have a flair for exaggeration.

j-mac

Says someone who goes with socialism and death panels. :lamo :lamo :lamo
 
Largely I agree with you here

Great! :)

though the word provoked is subject to a difference of opinion. If they didn't feel provoked in some way, they likely would have focused some place else. That doesn't excuse there action on any way, but remember, others often hold different views and see things differently.

Damn! I knew it was too good to be true...:mrgreen:

Just a question. Are we to conduct actions we take around the world based on what radical nut job we might offend? Because I don't think that would work out too well for us.

So, you're saying AQ doesn't try to influence government policy?

Islam is a religious political structure. That question has no right answer.

They try to influence government policy.

Just as much as what they are trying to do has ramifications in the interests of caliphate, as it does effecting policy.

You're free to do so.

Thanks for your permission....:moon:

J, do you think true matters? Or must your national ego be so stroked that you never look honestly at any action? No said anything about begging the UN. See how your lack of national exteem leads you to hyperbole.


:bs I am growing tired of your projection here. If ANYONE has a poor national esteem it is you.

We signed agreements, some call that law, and we acted as if our word meant nothing. And we did not act in our interests. Frankly, we acted contrary to our interests, hurting ourselfs more than helping. Spent billions, killed thousands upon thousands, and all for very little that helps us in anyway. Infact, compared to how much it helped our enemies and hurt our reputation, we can't really call the entire thing as anything more than a loss as far as our interests go.


Your hyperbolic rant has little to do with anything other than your own opinion. Which BTW, you are allowed to hold, no matter how wrong it is.

Says someone who goes with socialism and death panels.

More jack assery I see. Get back to me when you can have a real discussion.


j-mac
 
Just a question. Are we to conduct actions we take around the world based on what radical nut job we might offend? Because I don't think that would work out too well for us.

Nope, and I've never suggested any such thing. This is another wild leap on your part.


Islam is a religious political structure. That question has no right answer.

Of course it does. You just don't like the answer.


Just as much as what they are trying to do has ramifications in the interests of caliphate, as it does effecting policy.

But, by the definition you provided, they would be political. Right?




:bs I am growing tired of your projection here. If ANYONE has a poor national esteem it is you.

Meaning you don't want to answer. Perhaps you know the truth but want to deny it. The first step is always amitting you have a problem. Those who have a strong sense of self don't turn away from the hard question, can face the truth even when it isn't flattering, and can even allow someone to hold a harsh opinion and hear the words, all without demanding they hear good stuff too.



Your hyperbolic rant has little to do with anything other than your own opinion. Which BTW, you are allowed to hold, no matter how wrong it is.

As there was no rant, you again show you don't really have the ability to address the issues as they are. You want a rose colored version that ignores the mistakes and problems associated with your position, and anything less than idealism you want means everyone who looks at ti honestly must hate America.

More jack assery I see. Get back to me when you can have a real discussion.


j-mac

Show me I'm wrong? If you can. Have you or have you not gone with things?
 
Those who have a strong sense of self don't turn away from the hard question, can face the truth even when it isn't flattering

good point

can you imagine how eric holder must have felt when he ENDORSED the words of the ig: "waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the two most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information"

it all comes down to character, sydney
 
Marc Thiesen has an update/clarification on the AEI blog today. He says, in part:

Those familiar with the CIA’s interrogations say there is no way we could have gotten KSM to talk without waterboarding. Former Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell has said, “No. You can say that absolutely. He would not have talked to us in a hundred years. Tough guy. Absolutely committed. He had this mental image of himself as a warrior and a martyr. No way he would talk to us.” A high-ranking CIA official told me, “Everyone will tell you, even people opposed to the program, that [KSM] was not going to talk otherwise. I mean, this was one tough mother. He would get waterboarded and they would watch his fingers because he’d figured out how long it was going to last, and he’d just count on his hands how long he had to hold out. I mean, that is tough. For a psychotic, you’ve got to give the guy his props. And he was going to break by Starsky and Hutch interrogation techniques?”

Theissen asserts that "terrorists are trained to lie about their treatment—but they generally lie to exaggerate what they went through, not downplay it." Sounds right to me.
 
good point

can you imagine how eric holder must have felt when he ENDORSED the words of the ig: "waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the two most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information"

it all comes down to character, sydney

Still not providing what I asked for. I know I scare you, but I ahve asked for something specific. :coffeepap
 
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