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Osama Bin Laden is dead

Why would you require proof beyond a yes or no answer unless you think these Americans are all lying? Is this forum in on this Osama death conspiracy?

I really don't have a horse in your race Ben. I think I've pretty well shown why I suspected that it was censored at least to some degree in your country. Other than that I'm only interested in the truth. Your suggestio of a conspiracy theory on this forum doesn't interest me. Your angle of attack does however subtract a little from your credibility already. You shouldn't let that happen as it only goes to show further that you want to believe but are now in doubt as to whether or not to believe.

However you want to play it is fine with me!
 
I've been waterbaorded...as has nearly everyone that's been through S.E.R.E.

Let's give you the benefit of the doubt, for a moment, that you are indeed in MI. Saying that waterboarding is not torture because it's a training technique is self contradictory. The training is to make you more able to resist breaking down under torture. So, that kinda makes your comments military unintelligence.
 
no i am still sticking to my claim, cuz there is a report, claiming there were nukes, chemical and biological weapons in ıraq...
The report still doesn't say that Iraq had nukes.
 
Let's give you the benefit of the doubt, for a moment, that you are indeed in MI. Saying that waterboarding is not torture because it's a training technique is self contradictory. The training is to make you more able to resist breaking down under torture. So, that kinda makes your comments military unintelligence.



Actually that's not how it happens in SERE. You get waterboarded to show you some of the **** you'll encounter if your captured.
 
Well it IS a live news service and that is the big story of the day. They certainly led on Osama yesterday. The good thing about AJ is that it streams live, which the BBC should think about for its World News channel. Their coverage of the Egyptian revolution was also, by far, the best coverage and this despite incredible government efforts to intimidate them. I really like it while not taking off my sceptic goggles.

Ushaditcoming, while I might agree with you to a certain extent, you might reflect that such a handle is bound to, and with much justification, antagonise US posters and be seen as provocative. I'd contact the mods and change it if you seriously want to debate here rather than just engage in arguments with people. Just saying.

Good objective comments on Al Jazeera! I too recognized it as the best coverage of the Egyptian conflict. And yes, there were attempts to discredit it and attempts to censor. Those facts in theirselves are telling of the US attitude.

I know that my name is not going to be accepted but it does set the stage for a lively debate. I would think that people like you would recognize that it's in fact quite true. Perhaps you do? From past experience I've found that the name eliicits more realistic responses than some other name. Your response is a good example. I won't be changing it but if the mods interfere with it I won't be staying here on this forum under a different name. The forum would have then proven that it's not worthy of my participation.

Sadly, the personal attacks have already started and is already starting to prove that.
 
Actually that's not how it happens in SERE. You get waterboarded to show you some of the **** you'll encounter if your captured.

According to those who do it, it's a toned down version that is not equal to actual waterboarding. I've posted this in the past. even the creaters of this program consider waterboarding torture.
 
This might qualify as the most retarded post of the year. Perhaps the most retarded ever posted on DP.
It is 100% pure unadulterated drivel, and even open minded Libs will have to agree it's 100% wrong.

And you claim to be a "Centrist"!!! ???
Next time try "Progressive", "Moderate" or "Independent". ROTFLOL.

TILT/

.

You seemed to have misunderstood my point. The poster to whom I was responding suggests that Bush gets the credit because it was his administration that produced the intelligence. If that were true, then apparently Bush merely sat on the info and did nothing to pursue bin Laden after learning where to find him. Thus, IF the poster's premise were true, Bush deserves no credit. Of course, I don't lend any truth value to that premise in the first place.

In addition, I do not see how my comment, even if misunderstood out of context, at all qualifies as a stupid comment. We know that Bush, as he admitted, did not see bin Laden as a priority.
 
I really don't have a horse in your race Ben. I think I've pretty well shown why I suspected that it was censored at least to some degree in your country... Your suggestio of a conspiracy theory on this forum doesn't interest me. Your angle of attack does however subtract a little from your credibility already.

Your credibility is a little lowered if you are assuming Ben is American. He's Irish btw and will have full access to AJ through Sky and cable.
 
I was there dood, u saying I wasn't chasin iraqis out of Kuwait?

Of course I'm not saying that. Try to be sensible about this issue now. If there is a thread started about the Gulf war then you would be a good one to provide some comment on it. That is providing that you really were there. I've been fooled in the past and I've outed a few posers too.
 
Well, it is, that's where I work. The guy you're looking at on the page is the boss, not me. Beleive what you want though.

You want to see my boss?
 
Actually that's not how it happens in SERE. You get waterboarded to show you some of the **** you'll encounter if your captured.

Being waterboarded is child's play when you know that you are not going to come to any harm. You 'should' know that as well as I do. I wonder if you do? LOL
 
Of course I'm not saying that. Try to be sensible about this issue now. If there is a thread started about the Gulf war then you would be a good one to provide some comment on it. That is providing that you really were there. I've been fooled in the past and I've outed a few posers too.



look at my post count dude, then search my posts, if you think I'm a fake, there's almost 50 thousand posts for you to find what your looking for. I don't care what you think. But this nonsense you are peddling?

And I took you up on your claim to have this sorta argument on many boards, most of em you seem to be banned from. Like I said. 2 months.
 
Being waterboarded is child's play when you know that you are not going to come to any harm. You 'should' know that as well as I do. I wonder if you do? LOL



Please then, by all means, load a youtube of you being waterboarded....
 
I'm glad bin Laden is dead, but in rejoicing, lets make sure that the people that deserve the credit get it. I hate Obama, yes, can't stand the man, but he did good with saying "yea go get 'em." However, I am disappointed that he wanted to take bin Laden alive. I am sorely disappointed in hearing that.
You happen to be in denial over Obama being responsible for Osama's death. Yeah, Obama didn't go in and shoot him himself, but that isn't his job, his job was to give the okay, to have the balls to take the risk regardless of the negative possibilities. Now that takes guts and you certainly have to give him credit for it. If Obama had not given the word, Bin Laden would still be alive today, so whether you want to give Obama credit or not, it doesn't matter, you are but one sourgrapes voice, surely not the only one, but that doesn't keep the rest of the country from cheering and giving Obama the credit.

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't have blamed him if things had gone wrong. Like I said before, I didn't blame him when he went after Libya and killed civilians in bombings.
Oh sure, I'm supposed to believe that? You probably would have been the first one posting some inflammatory comment about Obama's ineptness and some other negative things. Obama didn't kill any civilians, so, you are most certainly blaming him by your inane comment. You are disingenuous but you don't fool anyone.

Some might say "some people will never give Obama credit for this" and I am one of them, but I am equal, I will never give Bush credit for Saddam.
Oh, I guess this makes it fair? Saddam is dead because of Bush, so whether you give him credit or not is immaterial, he was responsible for Saddam's death. Now, whether that was a good thing or not, I'm not so sure that Saddam was worth 4,000+ of our American soldiers, maybe that is why you don't want to give him credit? You don't want to admit the senselessness of it.


Like that cartoon said, all he did was say "ok, go get him." That doesn't take much.
Geez, you really are immature to think that saying "ok go get him" didn't involve a whole lot more. If we had lost the Seals, you sure would have been blaming Obama, if innocent civilians would have been killed and Osama wasn't even there, that would have been a disgrace and embarrassment that Obama would have faced.
I'm not sure you are able to intelligently figure this whole scenario, why your comments are so baseless. Why I even bother to respond to your senseless posts.

The entire intelligence community, the CIA, the FBI, and all other 3 letter abbreviations that got involved and got this man should be commended. I mean, what if Osama had been shot on Jan 21st, 2009? Who would you have given credit to then?
That is truly an ignorant comment. Unless Bush had initiated the killing of Bin Laden, it would not have happened, and Obama couldn't have ordered it the day after he took office. Osama would not have been shot on Jan 21, because Bush had already said he wasn't going after him, and Obama hadn't been there long enough to get the assignment going. I guess you really don't understand how the whole thing works, why you make such inane comments.

So on the same token, don't let your LOVE of Obama blind yourself to who really got bin Laden. You tell me don't let my hate for him blind me, well, don't let your love for him blind you. See how that coin flips both ways?
Whatever, I can see I am responding to someone that isn't even able to think rationally. It doesn't have anything to do with love, it has to do with being able to analyze the situation and apply rational credit where credit is due. It's a good thing that there are more people on the "positive" side, that are giving Obama kudos for the great job he did than those of your opinion, who are drowning in the sour juice of their own sourgrapes.


Don't worry, your doesn't either!
At least my opinion is on the side of the majority. It's not fun to have an opinion that is on the side of losers.
 
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Compare our current "statemen" with those who signed the declaration and the level of debate that occurred in Independence Hall in those days.

You mean, like the womanizing Ben Franklin, who married a polygamous woman and had many illicit affairs? Or Thomas Jefferson, who had a second family with a slave woman?
 
Your credibility is a little lowered if you are assuming Ben is American. He's Irish btw and will have full access to AJ through Sky and cable.

My credibility would be lowered if I refused to acknowledge that I was mistaken on his nationality. Your credibility is now in question with me. We'll see how it goes from here on in though. I'm always going to be very objective and upfront on it.
 
According to those who do it, it's a toned down version that is not equal to actual waterboarding. I've posted this in the past. even the creaters of this program consider waterboarding torture.



Links please. you always seem to lack links.... :lol:

is it "toned down"? sure as hell didn't feel that way. :lol:
 
I do in fact believe Osama bin Laden is dead...if he wasn't, he would have released another video by now.

QFMFT

Whenever rumors started swirling about him being dead, he always would come through and put them to rest.
 
Please then, by all means, load a youtube of you being waterboarded....

Give me ten minutes and I'll make the video. Stop trying, you are never going to be able to prove your point with me on this forum. Maybe we can get together in person if the issue is worth enough to you to prove. Actually it's not even worth the efffort to me to make the video. If you continue to insist I'll just provide you with a link to somebody getting waterboarded. Now go play guns.
 
Give me ten minutes and I'll make the video. Stop trying, you are never going to be able to prove your point with me on this forum. Maybe we can get together in person if the issue is worth enough to you to prove. Actually it's not even worth the efffort to me to make the video. If you continue to insist I'll just provide you with a link to somebody getting waterboarded. Now go play guns.



this ain't match.com bro, and The Good Reverend happily married. The Good Reverend is flattered by your asking for a date, but, he must politley decline. :pimpdaddy:
 
Your credibility is now in question with me. We'll see how it goes from here on in though. I'm always going to be very objective and upfront on it.

Am I meant to care very much what a noob on the forum thinks about my credibility? As far as objectivity is concerned, it really doesn't have much currency in the political arena. No one is objective and everyone has an agenda. What is important is the struggle for and commitment to balance and pluralism, not some mythical objectivity.
 
this ain't match.com bro, and The Good Reverend happily married. The Good Reverend is flattered by your asking for a date, but, he must politley decline. :pimpdaddy:

Alright then, if you don't swing both ways then I have been put down for my attempts at friendship and you have chastized me. In all honesty though, when a person is outed, such as Larry Craig or Foley, they are always the ones who objected too loudly to the gay lifestyle. The closet gay is usually the one that goes to extreme measures, or in fact any measures at all to show to others that he/it/she is a macho man's man. Now I'm not saying that you have necessarily done that with your avatar but now that you want to start getting insulting, you only have to know that I'm up to it. I suggest you back off before you get yourself in trouble. It's really not necessary you know.
 
Links please. you always seem to lack links.... :lol:

is it "toned down"? sure as hell didn't feel that way. :lol:

I've posted them before. Link: The Treatment of Detainees in U.S. Custody

Some might say that if our personnel go through it in SERE
school, what's wrong with doing it to detainees? Well, our
personnel are students, and they can call off the training at
any time.

Again, it's critical to remember that these techniques are
not used in SERE school to obtain intelligence, they are to
prepare our soldiers to resist abusive interrogation.
ot the same.

And read on:

Discussions about reverse-engineering SERE techniques for
use in interrogations at GTMO had already prompted strong
objections by the DOD's CITF at GTMO. CITF Deputy Commander
Mark Fallon said that the SERE techniques were ``developed to
better prepare U.S. military personnel to resist
interrogations, and not as a means of obtaining reliable
information,'' and that, ``CITF was troubled with the rationale
that techniques used to harden resistance to interrogations
would be the basis for the utilization of techniques to obtain
information.''

there is also this:

In fact, waterboarding is just the type of torture then Lt. Commander John McCain had to endure at the hands of the North Vietnamese. As a former Master Instructor and Chief of Training at the US Navy Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape School (SERE) in San Diego, California I know the waterboard personally and intimately. SERE staff were required undergo the waterboard at its fullest. I was no exception. I have personally led, witnessed and supervised waterboarding of hundreds of people. It has been reported that both the Army and Navy SERE school’s interrogation manuals were used to form the interrogation techniques used by the US army and the CIA for its terror suspects. What was not mentioned in most articles was that SERE was designed to show how an evil totalitarian, enemy would use torture at the slightest whim. If this is the case, then waterboarding is unquestionably being used as torture technique.

Naval Leadership: Waterboarding is Torture… Period

There's much more out there and I've probably linked it all at one time or another. But the point is they are not the same, and waterboarding is torture.
 
Am I meant to care very much what a noob on the forum thinks about my credibility? As far as objectivity is concerned, it really doesn't have much currency in the political arena. No one is objective and everyone has an agenda. What is important is the struggle for and commitment to balance and pluralism, not some mythical objectivity.

Well stated again. Now I'll leave it up to you to try to determine what my political objective really is. My agenda as you suggest. Have I given you any hint so far? I think I've at least shown you that I don't buy into American propaganda all the time. Especially when America provides reason to doubt their propaganda. And you?l What's your agenda. You have provided a hint that it's got something to do with damage control so far. And you don't like my name so you tell me that others won't so I should change it.
 
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