• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health System

StillBallin75

Salty Specialist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 16, 2011
Messages
25,662
Reaction score
21,196
Location
Fort Drum, New York
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health System | News & Analysis

The Vermont Senate has followed the House by passing legislation that would create the first steps toward a single-payor health system, according to a Bloomberg Businessweek report.

The legislation, which is supported by Democratic Gov. Peter Shumlin, would set up a healthcare coverage exchange and a universal health insurance program for the state. The differences in the Senate and House bills are expected to be worked out in conference committee, according to the report.

Was listening to a debate on NPR on this issue this morning as I was driving to schol. The article isn't too big on details but I'm sure a bit more googling give anyone who's interested deeper insight into the situation and what the legislation covers.
 
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health System | News & Analysis



Was listening to a debate on NPR on this issue this morning as I was driving to schol. The article isn't too big on details but I'm sure a bit more googling give anyone who's interested deeper insight into the situation and what the legislation covers.

Wonder if there's an opt-out option if you want to maintain private coverage.
 
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

Wonder if there's an opt-out option if you want to maintain private coverage.

Just going on what I heard this morning, I didn't hear any mention of it on the radio but I guess that doesn't necessarily mean it won't exist.
 
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

Just going on what I heard this morning, I didn't hear any mention of it on the radio but I guess that doesn't necessarily mean it won't exist.

Not that I can imagine mandatory pay-outs into the "single payer" system AND private insurance premiums would be ideal for most people...
 
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

Wonder if there's an opt-out option if you want to maintain private coverage.

You can't opt out, why would you want to do that? Mother Government will care for you. Whether you want her too or NOT.
 
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

You can't opt out, why would you want to do that? Mother Government will care for you. Whether you want her too or NOT.

I was on Medicaid as a child/teen, before they created SCHIP. It wasn't great. I don't want anything remotely close to it again, if I can help it.
 
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

Not that I can imagine mandatory pay-outs into the "single payer" system AND private insurance premiums would be ideal for most people...

I wouldn't be opposed to it, as long as it was understood that if the person's plan did not pay for something, then the state would not pick up the tab, even if it killed them (with the exception being children as they should not be punished for their parent's stupidity)
 
Last edited:
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

More power to them...as long as they are fully funding this on their own.
 
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

I wouldn't be opposed to it, as long as it was understood that if the person's plan did not pay for something, then the state would not pick up the tab, even if it killed them (with the exception being children as they should not be punished for their parent's stupidity)

This, except for the child clause. Also, if I still have to pony up I should be able to change my mind and use it if I so please (not that I would). If the opt-out allows me to also opt-out of paying then I agree, except, again, for the child clause.

I couldn't get a sonogram done on Medicaid because it was "unnecessary" according to the nifty flow chart the doctor had. Instead of diagnosing gall stones at 12 when the symptoms arose I had to wait until I was 16 and had "real" insurance to get somebody to run tests. I'll deal with insurance and their denials. I'll pay off hospital bills when I have to. I've had the alternative and I didn't like it.
 
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

I was on Medicaid as a child/teen, before they created SCHIP. It wasn't great. I don't want anything remotely close to it again, if I can help it.

It wasn't great, but you were cared for if you were sick. Now I'm not here to advocate the single payer system as the ONLY option, but I do see severe problems with our healthcare system as it exists now. I find it ridiculous that we, as a supposedly passionate country, profit off of our sick. I also find it ridiculous that people are willing to exploit our social programs as is common in health, welfare, and unemployment.
 
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

This, except for the child clause. Also, if I still have to pony up I should be able to change my mind and use it if I so please (not that I would). If the opt-out allows me to also opt-out of paying then I agree, except, again, for the child clause.

I couldn't get a sonogram done on Medicaid because it was "unnecessary" according to the nifty flow chart the doctor had. Instead of diagnosing gall stones at 12 when the symptoms arose I had to wait until I was 16 and had "real" insurance to get somebody to run tests. I'll deal with insurance and their denials. I'll pay off hospital bills when I have to. I've had the alternative and I didn't like it.

If you change your mind and go back and forth from state to private, then I guess it would be ok if one ponied up each time. The important thing is that the funding is maintained or else the system will get cheated. I am flexible on the exact mechanism for maintaining that integrity though.

As far as how good or bad individual experiences are with public or private insurance, I have heard every opinion on both from good to bad, which is why I feel it is better to look at studies for important indicators over a person's story. According to just about every study I have seen, we simply get better results with a national health care plan when you look at the overall picture, even if there are those who don't like aspects of it and it doesn't always work for everybody all the time. But then again, no system is perfect for every individual and we simply have to accept that or else we will never move forward with any type of solution whether it is something more conservative or more liberal (or something nobody has thought of yet). I am sorry you had a bad experience though.
 
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

It wasn't great, but you were cared for if you were sick. Now I'm not here to advocate the single payer system as the ONLY option, but I do see severe problems with our healthcare system as it exists now. I find it ridiculous that we, as a supposedly passionate country, profit off of our sick. I also find it ridiculous that people are willing to exploit our social programs as is common in health, welfare, and unemployment.

That's the thing. I wasn't cared for. Not many facilities accepted the program except ERs, and those that did had long waiting lists to get in. My problems weren't diagnosed and other illness were often just simply over looked.
 
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

That's the thing. I wasn't cared for. Not many facilities accepted the program except ERs, and those that did had long waiting lists to get in. My problems weren't diagnosed and other illness were often just simply over looked.

I understand and disagree with those practices. Honestly I don't know enough about the ins and outs of the medical billing business to say with any certainty that there is any one right way. I however know of many people who have had coverage problems with private insurance as well. At the end of the day though, I find healthcare and education to be our biggest priorities in this country and find it ridiculous that many have had to give up ones livelihood just to live. Again, I don't know how to fix this problem, which is why I won't advocate something I don't understand strongly enough. I also believe that people need to get their priorities in order. Many CAN afford insurance but choose not to, opting for new cars, flat screen tv's and houses a quarter of a million dollars out of their budget. At the end of the day, I don't think anything will change in this country unless we have a serious look at our priorities.
 
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

I understand and disagree with those practices. Honestly I don't know enough about the ins and outs of the medical billing business to say with any certainty that there is any one right way. I however know of many people who have had coverage problems with private insurance as well. At the end of the day though, I find healthcare and education to be our biggest priorities in this country and find it ridiculous that many have had to give up ones livelihood just to live. Again, I don't know how to fix this problem, which is why I won't advocate something I don't understand strongly enough. I also believe that people need to get their priorities in order. Many CAN afford insurance but choose not to, opting for new cars, flat screen tv's and houses a quarter of a million dollars out of their budget. At the end of the day, I don't think anything will change in this country unless we have a serious look at our priorities.

I had to straighten out my priorities recently. I'm only 21. I used to be pretty athletic when I was younger, but now I'm borderline overweight. I'm suffering from borderline hypertension, high cholesterol, a fatty liver from eating too much junk. I made a lifestyle change. It all starts with the individual.
 
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

I had to straighten out my priorities recently. I'm only 21. I used to be pretty athletic when I was younger, but now I'm borderline overweight. I'm suffering from borderline hypertension, high cholesterol, a fatty liver from eating too much junk. I made a lifestyle change. It all starts with the individual.

Agreed. I'm 25. Between the ages of 16 when I was able to borrow money (with a co-signer, my parents weren't overly responsible either) and 20 I piled up 45,000 in debt, less than half of which was in student loans. At 20, I realized I didn't want to live like that anymore, so I took a break from school and am happy to say that at this time I owe less than 5000 dollars which I plan to have paid off by the end of 2011. I then plan on returning to school out of my own pocket. As far as I'm concerned, I never want a loan again, including a mortgage. I have found that anything worth having is worth waiting for and I really wish that is something this country would learn on both an individual and governmental level.

I own up to the mistakes I've made in my life, but I do see a problem in the business sector as well. There is absolutely NO way I should have been given loans with the small amount of income I had (Approximately $1000) a month, yet time and time again the bank gave me money for not only cars, but several "signature loans" as well. This is unfortunately all to common of a problem. I was lucky that I was able to pull myself up by my bootstraps, but unfortunately many others aren't that lucky.
 
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

bbc, earlier this month:

Surgeons say patients in some parts of England have spent months waiting in pain because of delayed operations or new restrictions on who qualifies for treatment. In several areas routine surgery was put on hold for months, while in many others new thresholds for hip and knee replacements have been introduced. The moves are part of the NHS drive to find £20bn efficiency savings by 2015. The government said performance should be measured by outcomes not numbers.

Surgeons have described the delays faced by patients as "devastating and cruel". Peter Kay, the president of the British Orthopaedic Association (BOA), says they've become increasingly frustrated that hip and knee replacements are being targeted as a way of finding savings. GPs were told not so send as many patients to hospital, maybe to delay referrals until the end of the financial year while perhaps introducing thresholds for surgery.

Overall, 692 surgeons in England sent the BBC information about the policy on hip and knee replacement of their local Primary Care Trust (PCT). Between them they covered the majority of PCTs in England. 106 surgeons told the BBC routine operations had been put on hold in their area. Others described new limits on when patients qualify for hip or knee replacements. 152 specialists said patients now have to be more disabled or in greater pain, and 118 told us hip and knee surgery had been regarded as a procedure of low priority.

A number of PCTs have been explicit about their decisions to put all routine operations on hold for several months up to April to help balance their budgets by the end of the financial year. They include Warrington, Sheffield, Eastern and Coastal Kent, Bury and Warwickshire. Alex Waring, a patient in Warwickshire, was told he was being referred for an urgent knee replacement in August of last year. Now he looks at that letter with bewilderment as more than seven months later he is still waiting for surgery. Mr Waring has already had one successful knee replacement and says he is in daily pain waiting for this second operation. "It's excruciating sometimes to put it mildly. And it affects you at the times when you're not expecting it. I get off my mobile scooter and nearly fall over because my knee is gone, the pain, you've to sit there until the pain just goes away."

Putting routine operations on hold means that GPs simply stop referring their patients for surgery. So although a patient might be waiting longer, this isn't recorded in the official waiting statistics. Another way of adding invisible waiting time into the system is to implement stricter new criteria which have the effect of delaying the point when a patient can be referred for treatment. An investigation by the BBC also found evidence in many PCT board papers of new thresholds being added for hip and knee replacements.

BBC News - Surgeons raise alarm over waiting
 
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

I understand and disagree with those practices. Honestly I don't know enough about the ins and outs of the medical billing business to say with any certainty that there is any one right way. I however know of many people who have had coverage problems with private insurance as well. At the end of the day though, I find healthcare and education to be our biggest priorities in this country and find it ridiculous that many have had to give up ones livelihood just to live. Again, I don't know how to fix this problem, which is why I won't advocate something I don't understand strongly enough. I also believe that people need to get their priorities in order. Many CAN afford insurance but choose not to, opting for new cars, flat screen tv's and houses a quarter of a million dollars out of their budget. At the end of the day, I don't think anything will change in this country unless we have a serious look at our priorities.

The "living within your means" argument. What stuns me into silence is the people who whole-heartedly believe that they have a natural born right to new cars, big homes, flat screens, a luxury boat, etc. Those people who stand in front of their flat screens and video games systems for an interview scheduled so they can complain about a lack of electricity vouchers...it turns me off to the whole system. Perhaps mandatory classes on money management and priorities are in order for those using the system to "survive". Or, maybe a societal shift in values away from materialistic crap?

To idealistic, right?
 
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

The "living within your means" argument. What stuns me into silence is the people who whole-heartedly believe that they have a natural born right to new cars, big homes, flat screens, a luxury boat, etc. Those people who stand in front of their flat screens and video games systems for an interview scheduled so they can complain about a lack of electricity vouchers...it turns me off to the whole system. Perhaps mandatory classes on money management and priorities are in order for those using the system to "survive". Or, maybe a societal shift in values away from materialistic crap?
To idealistic, right?

^^This

It would have to be a drastic cultural change though. Materialism is ingrained in our consumer culture.
 
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

^^This

It would have to be a drastic cultural change though. Materialism is ingrained in our consumer culture.

You ain't kidding. It drives me crazy sometimes. I'm a money hoarder and it drives my boyfriend crazy. I'll have a few thousand in savings and half that in the bank, but to me that's "broke". Meanwhile he'll keep a couple hundred for emergencies and spend the rest on crap we don't need or don't have room for...just to own it.
 
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

You ain't kidding. It drives me crazy sometimes. I'm a money hoarder and it drives my boyfriend crazy. I'll have a few thousand in savings and half that in the bank, but to me that's "broke". Meanwhile he'll keep a couple hundred for emergencies and spend the rest on crap we don't need or don't have room for...just to own it.

I'm Asian, and it's a general stereotype that Asians are super-cheap. My dad is an example of the exact opposite of what your boyfriend is. Instead of buying new things every once in awhile he'll collect used junk just to have it. He's using a desktop computer that's more than a decade old and runs windows 2000. He's worn the same clothes for like 10 years. He got a fish tank off a listing on craigslist just because someone didn't want their fishtank anymore. And he decided to have pet fish AFTER he got a fish tank. That's like deciding to start a family because you bought a minivan.
 
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

I'm Asian, and it's a general stereotype that Asians are super-cheap. My dad is an example of the exact opposite of what your boyfriend is. Instead of buying new things every once in awhile he'll collect used junk just to have it. He's using a desktop computer that's more than a decade old and runs windows 2000. He's worn the same clothes for like 10 years. He got a fish tank off a listing on craigslist just because someone didn't want their fishtank anymore. And he decided to have pet fish AFTER he got a fish tank. That's like deciding to start a family because you bought a minivan.

Ahaha! Reminds me of my stepmom. She'll snatch up ANYTHING...then decide later what to do with it. She still wears jeans from high school (30 years ago) and getting her to pony up for new shoes takes a small miracle.
 
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

The "living within your means" argument. What stuns me into silence is the people who whole-heartedly believe that they have a natural born right to new cars, big homes, flat screens, a luxury boat, etc. Those people who stand in front of their flat screens and video games systems for an interview scheduled so they can complain about a lack of electricity vouchers...it turns me off to the whole system. Perhaps mandatory classes on money management and priorities are in order for those using the system to "survive". Or, maybe a societal shift in values away from materialistic crap?

To idealistic, right?

Actually, I think we are saying the same thing. I am fiscally conservative (in a don't spend what you don't have kind of way) and socially liberal. The combination of which I will admit makes my head hurt sometimes.
I don't think anyone has a "right" to these products. I do however think both sides of the table lenders and lendees need to be MUCH more responsible as a whole. I've been an advocate for about the last five years about having classes that teach sound fiscal responsibility in school. This education would include but not be limited to responsible budgeting, credit risks and management, as well as education on preparing for a sound retirement from an early age.
 
Last edited:
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health System | News & Analysis

Was listening to a debate on NPR on this issue this morning as I was driving to schol. The article isn't too big on details but I'm sure a bit more googling give anyone who's interested deeper insight into the situation and what the legislation covers.

I've been reading about this, I'm glad you started the thread! I think it is great that Vermont is not waiting on the federal government to try to address the unaffordable health care costs for their residents.

I remember that Obama offered an opt out for states from the Federal health care reform if states could come up with their own plan that would cut health care cost as much and cover as many people as the federal plan.

It looks like Vermont decided to take him up on that challenge! :sun
 
Last edited:
Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health System | News & Analysis



Was listening to a debate on NPR on this issue this morning as I was driving to schol. The article isn't too big on details but I'm sure a bit more googling give anyone who's interested deeper insight into the situation and what the legislation covers.

It is retarded to create such nonsense at the Federal level, and it is nonsensical at the state level too, but this is where it should be happening if at all.

The village of Vermont or any state can institute such idiocy despite all the serious storm warnings such systems have issued worldwide... and when they do go to sea with this vessel, smash up on the rocks and bankrupt the state... NO FEDERAL BAILOUTS. You clever clowns ran up the state credit card... pay your debts yourself.

.
 
Back
Top Bottom