• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

IMF bombshell: Age of America nears end

I believe that he is a symptom of a larger problem, the people.

well, hell, if that's the model you want to use, he's actually an immunization.

Demagoguery and utopian promises is what wins elections, regardless of party affiliation :shrug:

:( it can. it has the advantage. but i cannot believe always.
 
The basic thing I garner from this story is that America isn't becoming more poor, China is just becoming more prosperous.

Good for them.

Why do we need to surpass China? We already have everything we need and much, much more to the extent that we are dying of obesity. Practicing contentment is a good thing.
 
This is a stupid discussion. Of COURSE China will pass the US.. India will too!.. they have 3x+ the amount of people living there for peak sake!
 
That doesn't necessarily mean anything.
Having more people doesn't equate to having a more productive economy.

Of course not, but it depends on the country and what economic situation it is in. When looking at China and India, they have 1+ billion people, and a huge growth potential. So no matter how you slice or dice it, at some point they will pass the US primarily based on the fact that there is 1+ billion people. Just because they are passing the US in overall GDP does not mean they are richer than the US since the only way to compare countries is per Capita GDP, and here both countries are far far behind. But because they have 1+ billion plus people, the GDP per capita only has to be 4ish times less than the US GDP per capita for them to pass the US on over all GDP and that is exactly what is happening. This was bound to happen at some point in time.

All great economies and "super powers" eventually fall to the side of the road and new emerge.. it has been like that since the dawn of man kind. The Egyptians gave away to the Greeks, who gave away to the Romans, the Romans gave away to the Byzantium and Spanish Empires. The Spanish gave way to the British Empire and the British Empire gave away to the US Empire... and now China is completing the circle almost by regaining the ranking and status it had 4000+ years ago when the world was huge and the Egyptians and Chinese ruled most of the known world and were economic super powers. The only difference in all this, is how long each period lasts..
 
Of course not, but it depends on the country and what economic situation it is in. When looking at China and India, they have 1+ billion people, and a huge growth potential. So no matter how you slice or dice it, at some point they will pass the US primarily based on the fact that there is 1+ billion people. Just because they are passing the US in overall GDP does not mean they are richer than the US since the only way to compare countries is per Capita GDP, and here both countries are far far behind. But because they have 1+ billion plus people, the GDP per capita only has to be 4ish times less than the US GDP per capita for them to pass the US on over all GDP and that is exactly what is happening. This was bound to happen at some point in time.

All great economies and "super powers" eventually fall to the side of the road and new emerge.. it has been like that since the dawn of man kind. The Egyptians gave away to the Greeks, who gave away to the Romans, the Romans gave away to the Byzantium and Spanish Empires. The Spanish gave way to the British Empire and the British Empire gave away to the US Empire... and now China is completing the circle almost by regaining the ranking and status it had 4000+ years ago when the world was huge and the Egyptians and Chinese ruled most of the known world and were economic super powers. The only difference in all this, is how long each period lasts..

It's not because they have 1 billion people though, because if that were the case, both China and India would have surpassed us long ago.
They've largely maintained the largest populations for centuries.

But I do agree that economic empires give way to new economic empires.
It's the natural course of things.
 
It's not because they have 1 billion people though, because if that were the case, both China and India would have surpassed us long ago.
They've largely maintained the largest populations for centuries.

God, now your nationalistic views are blinding you. The main reason that China is passing the US is because it has 1 billion+ people, and you cant get around that fact. If China only had 300 million people, then they would be no where near passing the US. Hence the 1 billion+ people is a KEY factor.
 
God, now your nationalistic views are blinding you. The main reason that China is passing the US is because it has 1 billion+ people, and you cant get around that fact. If China only had 300 million people, then they would be no where near passing the US. Hence the 1 billion+ people is a KEY factor.

What the hell are you talking about?
I have no "nationalistic views."

I conceded the fact that economic empires give way to new economic empires, but it isn't based on the population, otherwise China would have surpassed us long ago.

poptrend.gif


They have always had a larger population than the U.S.
Why didn't they surpass us before?
 
God, now your nationalistic views are blinding you. The main reason that China is passing the US is because it has 1 billion+ people, and you cant get around that fact. If China only had 300 million people, then they would be no where near passing the US. Hence the 1 billion+ people is a KEY factor.

Wrong. To attempt to compare a Chinese wage earner with a US, in productivity, is ridiculas. You'd might as well compare N. Korea's Army to that of the US. The quantity over quality argument (and I refer to productivity in a GDP/etc sense) does not hold water.

Here are the main reasons that China is "passing" the US. I put passing in quotes because China is a Paper Tiger about to crumble:

1. No labor rights.
2. No civil rights.
3. No human rights.
4. No environmentl rights.

If and when China begins to have even a couple of these things, the country will crumble and fragment like the USSR.

Let's see China play by the same rules before we start praising their "progress".
 
I like moving my eye lids with my index fingers, and saying "個滑稽的瓷人!"

Everybody laffs and laffs.
 
What the hell are you talking about?
I have no "nationalistic views."

I conceded the fact that economic empires give way to new economic empires, but it isn't based on the population, otherwise China would have surpassed us long ago.

poptrend.gif


They have always had a larger population than the U.S.
Why didn't they surpass us before?

You are simply blind then. The ONLY reason that China is passing the US in total GDP is BECAUSE of its population numbers.. there is no way you can get around that fact. They are not as productive, not as rich and all that crap, but the fact that there are so many of them, means they dont have to be to pass the US in total GDP.
 
You are simply blind then. The ONLY reason that China is passing the US in total GDP is BECAUSE of its population numbers.. there is no way you can get around that fact. They are not as productive, not as rich and all that crap, but the fact that there are so many of them, means they dont have to be to pass the US in total GDP.

They have vast natural resources, some of which we don't have or have already exploited.
The number of people is immaterial.
 
Wrong. To attempt to compare a Chinese wage earner with a US, in productivity, is ridiculas. You'd might as well compare N. Korea's Army to that of the US. The quantity over quality argument (and I refer to productivity in a GDP/etc sense) does not hold water.

Who is comparing? I am just stating the fact that in this case quantity does triumph quality (much like Chinese products). The Chinese production per person (in dollars) is much much much lower than that of the US, but because they have 4 times the population (if not 5), then they dont need much better production per person to pass the US as the number 1 economy in GDP terms. Hell they already passed the US as the biggest market, also because they have a huge population and growing middle class.

Here are the main reasons that China is "passing" the US. I put passing in quotes because China is a Paper Tiger about to crumble:

1. No labor rights.
2. No civil rights.
3. No human rights.
4. No environmentl rights.

Again not the main reason.. that is population size. These reasons you give are secondary reasons. And for the record.. many of those you list, can easily be transferred to the US as well.. :)

If and when China begins to have even a couple of these things, the country will crumble and fragment like the USSR.

That is another discussion.

Let's see China play by the same rules before we start praising their "progress".

I am not "praising their progress" lol, far from it. Stop putting words in my mouth. All I am stating is that due to their population size they would and are passing the US sooner than later in TOTAL GDP. This does not mean they are richer or better off in any way, quite the opposite in many ways.
 
They have vast natural resources, some of which we don't have or have already exploited.
The number of people is immaterial.

As are your comments since you cant even think logically. Your partisan chest thumping Nationalism has blinded you to the truth. Population DOES matter when you talk TOTAL GDP which is what we are. So suck up and admit you are wrong.

As for "vast natural resources" comment just shows how little you actually know. You do know that China imports a lot of natural resources right? China's "natural resources" have been exploited for 5000+ years, where as the American resources have only for 200 years. Who do you think has more now? Not my fault or that of China's that you dont have the political will or technical ability to exploit your own resources safely and economically.
 
Oh.

Well then. The United States should immediately implement auterity measures and stop funding the IMF.
 
The basic thing I garner from this story is that America isn't becoming more poor, China is just becoming more prosperous.

Good for them.

Why do we need to surpass China? We already have everything we need and much, much more to the extent that we are dying of obesity. Practicing contentment is a good thing.

"Less is More" is not a sensible option.

World leaders that cease to be world leaders look like Europe. Not a pretty sight.
 
This is a stupid discussion. Of COURSE China will pass the US.. India will too!.. they have 3x+ the amount of people living there for peak sake!

The correct cliche is "for Pete's sake", a reference to Saint Peter, founder of the Catholic Church...
 
It's not because they have 1 billion people though, because if that were the case, both China and India would have surpassed us long ago.
They've largely maintained the largest populations for centuries.

But I do agree that economic empires give way to new economic empires.
It's the natural course of things.

No. It's preventable. However, as Franklin said, a nation can't be both ignorant and free, and the United States government has decided that ignorance gets the established powers more votes with less effort. Hence the drive towards socialism, a public education system devoid of education, and emotion driven political campaigns. Could you imagine The View intelligent discourse was expected of pundits?
 
God, now your nationalistic views are blinding you. The main reason that China is passing the US is because it has 1 billion+ people, and you cant get around that fact. If China only had 300 million people, then they would be no where near passing the US. Hence the 1 billion+ people is a KEY factor.

No.

China has ALWAYS had more people than the US of A. As has India. Clearly your assertion that bodies create wealth if flat wrong.

What China has been doing it playing games with currency exchange rates, forcibly depressing wages, and loaning money to an ignorant country too stupid to stop it's spending spree. China's getting loads of money from interest on the US debt.

When the US defaults on that debt, and it must, China and Japan and others are going to be in a world of hurt. Hopefully the US will still have it's military to defend it's shores. If nothing else, the people in the US haven't been stupid enough to allow the government to steal their guns.
 
They have vast natural resources, some of which we don't have or have already exploited.
The number of people is immaterial.

More importantly than that...

...the United States has vast natural resources which it refuses to exploit. Recently the EPA denied an Artic drilling permit because the stack emissions from one ice breaker would allegedly change the "air quality" of one village 100 km away to something near, but not exceeding, the air quality standards.

So, the EPA is banning a drilling permit because a town's air quality standards will not exceed the allowed limits.

Idiocy like this is THE PRECISE REASON the US is falling behind, and it's the ONLY REASON.
 
I don't think china regards itself as dependent on the US.

Really, how else buys as much of their **** as we do?
 
More importantly than that...

...the United States has vast natural resources which it refuses to exploit. Recently the EPA denied an Artic drilling permit because the stack emissions from one ice breaker would allegedly change the "air quality" of one village 100 km away to something near, but not exceeding, the air quality standards.

So, the EPA is banning a drilling permit because a town's air quality standards will not exceed the allowed limits.

Idiocy like this is THE PRECISE REASON the US is falling behind, and it's the ONLY REASON.

what that guy said. we're not falling behind because others are awesome. we are falling behind because we are stupid.
 

Yes

China has ALWAYS had more people than the US of A. As has India. Clearly your assertion that bodies create wealth if flat wrong.

Where did I ever assert that? I stated, that because of the numbers of people in China, that at some point when their economy is growing and people are getting richer, that they then will pass the US as the nr. 1 economy based on total GDP and this will be done at a much lower level of "wealth" per captia than what the average American has. It is simple math. I never said that "bodies create wealth".

What China has been doing it playing games with currency exchange rates, forcibly depressing wages, and loaning money to an ignorant country too stupid to stop it's spending spree. China's getting loads of money from interest on the US debt.

Currency rates? HAHAHA.. Even if they let the Yaun float then wages in China would still be much cheaper and would change nothing other than the price of the goods you buy.

Forcibly depressing wages.. do you mean they have slave camps or something? Having 1 billion people who live on nothing but do have an education kinda helps in depressing wages in it self... no forcing is needed. Having no labour laws and a corrupt system of course helps, but then again who does not have that.. /wave illegal aliens in sweat shops and on farms in the US.

When the US defaults on that debt, and it must, China and Japan and others are going to be in a world of hurt.

Oh, and how exactly is the US going to get its cheap goods then? What you dont get, the US hurting or China hurting will hurt the other. You do know most of what the US consumes today is made in whole or in large part in China right? Even your freaking cars cant be made because of lack of supplies from China and Japan. Take Apple Ipad.. how much is made in the US? The software..some of it.. the rest is made in China and Japan and South Korea. Your cars.. yes they are put together in the US, but quite a large part of the stuff inside the cars come from suppliers in... China and Japan. TVs?`The US has not made those since the 1980s.. computers.. everything is made in China/South Korea/Japan but the processor.. almost.. much of the production is being moved there as we speak. The list goes on.. the only thing the US makes it self without outside help is food.

Hopefully the US will still have it's military to defend it's shores.

Sure but no spare parts.. since some of them are made by.. CHINA. And good luck funding the military, since you wont have anything to consume and since your whole economy is consumer based, then well.. oh and expect a lot of nakid people since 90%+ of your cloths is made in... CHINA.

If nothing else, the people in the US haven't been stupid enough to allow the government to steal their guns.

LOL yea.. paranoid I see.
 
The basic thing I garner from this story is that America isn't becoming more poor, China is just becoming more prosperous.

Good for them.

Why do we need to surpass China? We already have everything we need and much, much more to the extent that we are dying of obesity. Practicing contentment is a good thing.

How can we say we are not more poor? Look at unemployment and the economy.

More people rely on government then ever in our history

Record number in government anti-poverty programs - USATODAY.com
 
Back
Top Bottom