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Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

Seattle (and Boeing) was built by union workers, not by entrepreneurial ideas and investments. If the capitalists all go away, all will be well in Seattle.

no way
the business management has to identify the talent it needs to hire
the market(s) it intends to serve
the product/service it intends to build/supply
the plans to build/supply it
source the materials and equipment needed
and the capital to make it all happen


what we have are too few entrepreneurs. then the nation's unemployed tradesman and prospective employees could be marshaled to return to gainful employment
 
no way
the business management has to identify the talent it needs to hire
the market(s) it intends to serve
the product/service it intends to build/supply
the plans to build/supply it
source the materials and equipment needed
and the capital to make it all happen


what we have are too few entrepreneurs. then the nation's unemployed tradesman and prospective employees could be marshaled to return to gainful employment

In case you missed it, I believe GPS's post was an instance of sarcasm.
 
Why doesn't the business have the right to not employ these people?
Why are these people entitled to their jobs?

Good questions that need reasonable answers I think.

because the employer entered into a contract agreeing to how it would hire/fire employees
and once 50% plus one employee vote to establish a union, the employer is then subject to labor law which prevents union busting
 
you reveal your ignorance of labor law
"unfair" as in unfair labor practice is found when the employer intentionally takes actions detrimental to the interests of its employees/unionin this instance, internal management communications and a public statement made it evident that boeing established another non-unionized assembly line to avoid having to deal with the union and to have an alternative to avoid the impact of union actions (such as a strike)
under federal law, that is found to be anti-labor practice. now the federal board responsible for enforcing the law will take boeing to court and will hammer out the impact and implementation of that action and to examine to what degree boeing actions adversely affected the interests of the employees/union

as an aside, the employees/union, like the employer, is subject to that same restriction from engaging in unfair labor practices. the law is not one sided
if you want to become more acquainted with the provisions of federal labor law (and you really need to, based on what was found within your post), the statutes will be found at 5 USC chapter 71

So...a union makes unreasonable demands of Boeing... Boeing in turn decides to relocate a plant to a non-unionized location (saving the company money and creating jobs in that area instead of another)... and the union is pissed.

Big ****ing deal.

If the union had been more reasonable, Boeing wouldn't have NEEDED to relocate, so that is the unions fault. Boeing created jobs in one location instead of another, so the 'detrimental to the interests' nonsense is exactly that... nonsense. They are creating jobs at the new location, equal to the jobs that would have been created at the old location, so it's a wash.

Boeing wins... employees win... union loses.

Again... buig ****ing deal.



United States Code: Title 5,7106. Management rights | LII / Legal Information Institute
7106. Management rights
How Current is This? (a) Subject to subsection (b) of this section, nothing in this chapter shall affect the authority of any management official of any agency
(1) to determine the mission, budget, organization, number of employees, and internal security practices of the agency; and
(2) in accordance with applicable laws—
(A) to hire, assign, direct, layoff, and retain employees in the agency, or to suspend, remove, reduce in grade or pay, or take other disciplinary action against such employees;
(B) to assign work, to make determinations with respect to contracting out, and to determine the personnel by which agency operations shall be conducted;
(C) with respect to filling positions, to make selections for appointments from—
(i) among properly ranked and certified candidates for promotion; or
(ii) any other appropriate source; and
(D) to take whatever actions may be necessary to carry out the agency mission during emergencies.
(b) Nothing in this section shall preclude any agency and any labor organization from negotiating—
(1) at the election of the agency, on the numbers, types, and grades of employees or positions assigned to any organizational subdivision, work project, or tour of duty, or on the technology, methods, and means of performing work;
(2) procedures which management officials of the agency will observe in exercising any authority under this section; or
(3) appropriate arrangements for employees adversely affected by the exercise of any authority under this section by such management officials.
Which is exactly what Boeing is doing here.
 
Obvious examples: Schools and auto manufacturing. And both have gone down the tubes.

.

the demise is attributable to management in both industries

read The Reckoning from the mid 80's. that book predicted the decline of our nation's auto industry. much of the basis was because of the weak management at the top. one example is Edwards Deming. he could not be hired in detroit because his approach was innovative - different, and thus unwelcome by management in the USA
there is a Deming award in japan, given to the business which best exemplifies Deming's principles of constant improvement and reliability
to large degree, it was Deming's practices which propelled the asian auto markets to become leaders in the industry

in education, the weak teachers survive only because the school management does not follow the procedures that exist to rid the system of the inadequate performers - in both union and non-union states
and it is notable that the states with recognized teachers unions have student performance scores that exceed those states without recognized teachers unions

in short, your conclusion is bogus
 
Just...

Here's a link to the statutes you mentioned (and I used above).

United States Code: Title 5,CHAPTER 71—LABOR-MANAGEMENT RELATIONS | LII / Legal Information Institute

Please drill down and post exactly which ones you believe Boeing broke.

They didn't break any rules, and the way the article here is written is that internal and public statements and documents.. Blah blah.. Making the reader think that they have some evidence of colussion.. LOL It's poor journalism at best, or outright bias at worse..

Also, a Union may still be a union but they have no legal teeth without a contract, and to my understanding the Boeing union has no current contract.. Without being able to shift manufacturing, if the demands are unreasonable by the union the only other option would be to shut it down.. Or cave.. (Hardly viable for a fortune 500 company.. ) No Federal law will forbid a company using the threat of a move as ammunition in union contract negotiations, NO ONE, as a matter of fact I saw no case law that punished this type of negotiation tactic. NONE!! The article is misleading, hence some of the responses seen here???


Tim-
 
NLRB Accuses Boeing Of Retaliation For Labor Strikes - Law360
Later that month, a Boeing memo sent to its employees noted that moving the line to South Carolina would reduce delivery disruptions caused by work stoppages, it said.

Looks like the union broke the Labor statutes. Their strikes caused interference with operations, which is prohibited...


7116. Unfair labor practices
(b) For the purpose of this chapter, it shall be an unfair labor practice for a labor organization—
(7)
(A) to call, or participate in, a strike, work stoppage, or slowdown, or picketing of an agency in a labor-management dispute if such picketing interferes with an agency’s operations, or
(B) to condone any activity described in subparagraph (A) of this paragraph by failing to take action to prevent or stop such activity; or
(8) to otherwise fail or refuse to comply with any provision of this chapter.
 
This really is just one BIG hand job to the IAM and Trumka (the POS) from the Obulls#!t administration.
 
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Long live the glorious people's movement!

The socialist unions shall overcome the burgeious oppression!

This has been a far rightys account of unions :coffeepap
 
Looks like the union broke the Labor statutes. Their strikes caused interference with operations, which is prohibited...

How are they supposed to strike without causing interference with operations? That was a dumb negotiating strategy lol
 
Why of course, just like any worker who choses to slave for someone else in exchange for bread & water. Did you buy the company you work for? Were you Union? LOL!

No as a matter of fact I didn't, and I didn't belong to a union, I also felt well paid, and that the company treated us rather well. The employees in return treated the company rather well, and helped them to grow, rather then bitch and moan about things . I also didn't think that owners of the company or those that ran it, were making too much money, that is what they are in business to do. They put up their money to start the company, took all the risks, lived with all the headaches.

But if anyone is unhappy with what they are making, or the company they work for, they can start their own company as well. All you have to do is take every penny of your savings, mortgage your house to the hilt, borrow from friends … and have a go at it.
 
because the employer entered into a contract agreeing to how it would hire/fire employees
and once 50% plus one employee vote to establish a union, the employer is then subject to labor law which prevents union busting

Yes but why are they entitled to their jobs, what if 50% plus are terrible workers?
Why should the employer be required to even negotiate with them?

What makes the employee more honest and good than the employer, that they deserve special job protections?
 
Obvious examples: Schools and auto manufacturing. And both have gone down the tubes.

.

There is no indication that auto manufacturing received less than any other similar autos being made. There is however, proof that the auto manufacturing profits have allowed the corporation to go International with auto plants & sales. So I think auto manufacturing excuse is FAIL.

There seems to be some misconceptions in con-heads, part of the reality dump of the left lobe. However there is very little difference between private & public salaries. They are all underpaid.

ISACS - Private
Head: 285,415.
Teacher: 98,273.
About.com: http://www.isacs.org/ftpimages/72/download/download_group374_id3056.pdf


BLS - Public
Administer: highest 10 percent earned more than $124,250.
About.com: http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos069.htm#earnings

Teacher: the highest 10 percent earned more than $77,950.
About.com: http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos069.htm#earnings
 
No as a matter of fact I didn't, and I didn't belong to a union, I also felt well paid, and that the company treated us rather well. The employees in return treated the company rather well, and helped them to grow, rather then bitch and moan about things . I also didn't think that owners of the company or those that ran it, were making too much money, that is what they are in business to do. They put up their money to start the company, took all the risks, lived with all the headaches.
You haven't a clue what other employees thought or bitched & moaned about. And you are being a hypocrite by expecting others to buy corporations, when you didn't do the same. LOL! Most companies practice the same behavior, put money in, take money out, have headaches.

But if anyone is unhappy with what they are making, or the company they work for, they can start their own company as well. All you have to do is take every penny of your savings, mortgage your house to the hilt, borrow from friends … and have a go at it.

Why of course you can. Snicker, snicker...............LMAO!!!
 
Well, for one, Boeing isn't going to sell a production line for planes that cost $200 million each for $1.8 billion and create competition for their own freaking airplane.

So raise the price .. everything is for sale at the right price.

The point I'm making is that the workers with there strikes are one of the main reasons the company is moving. If you research the whole thing, it was because of strikes, and those delays in line production that caused them to look elsewhere. Not saying it's good or bad, just saying why this is happening, and it seems to be as much the fault of the unions as it is the company.

I'm sorry if anyone finds it offensive, but the first thing a company is “suppose” to look out for is it's profits. When workers strike for two months, the company doesn't close, the bills still have to be paid, as well as property taxes, and non union salaries. When production stops for approx. 17% of the year, I can see that as a problem.

Again this is nothing against the union, they voted for a strike, and that is their right. I'm just not sure about the wisdom of unions sometimes. Here is a good article about why they struck, and what they were being offered. Boeing makes wage offer; Machinists call it 'insulting' - seattlepi.com

I just happen to know a lot of people that would be thrilled to be earning a base pay of $27.00 an hour. This is not to say that they shouldn't try to get the best package they can get, hell everyone does that union or non union. Just sometimes, I think it's wise to take what you can get, and be happy in todays times that you have a well paying job with benefits. Course that is just my opinion.
 
Why of course you can. Snicker, snicker...............LMAO!!!

I'm not being a hypocrite about anything. That option is open to any group of people 180,000 strong that feel they are being treated unfairly. As for me .. I own a business … besides working for a company. I just happen to like my job, and enjoy everything that goes with it. I have a business for the advantage of the taxes it provides.

As to your sarcasm to starting a full time business, it goes to show that you aren't the type to risk everything you have, and that is fine, not everyone can do that, but there are many small businessmen that have, and have become successful. To those that have, they deserve all that they are making.
 
Yes but why are they entitled to their jobs, what if 50% plus are terrible workers?
the employer can terminate them for cause. without the union the employer could terminate the employees at will. once the employees have gained the protection of the union contract, the employer must then follow the termination process set forth in the negotiated contract

Why should the employer be required to even negotiate with them?
the law says that is there is a 30% showing of workers then an election must be held to determine if the majority want to be represented by a union. once the democratic election is held, if the majority votes for the union, the law provides that the employees will then be entitled to union representation, together with the laws protecting union activities. (protected activities is a term given to describe the actions of the union which are protected by law)

What makes the employee more honest and good than the employer, that they deserve special job protections?
the employees who have the representation obviously have more protection than they would without such representation. unionization - collective bargaining - levels the playing field. but be assured, the unionized employees do not have a position superior to that of the employer
 
the employer can terminate them for cause. without the union the employer could terminate the employees at will. once the employees have gained the protection of the union contract, the employer must then follow the termination process set forth in the negotiated contract


the law says that is there is a 30% showing of workers then an election must be held to determine if the majority want to be represented by a union. once the democratic election is held, if the majority votes for the union, the law provides that the employees will then be entitled to union representation, together with the laws protecting union activities. (protected activities is a term given to describe the actions of the union which are protected by law)


the employees who have the representation obviously have more protection than they would without such representation. unionization - collective bargaining - levels the playing field. but be assured, the unionized employees do not have a position superior to that of the employer

Why should their be a "level" playing field?
They do not have the responsibility of the risk of property or investments at the job they work for.

Why should new employees be automatically grandfathered into the union?
Why shouldn't they have to vote for representation?
Why shouldn't the employer be able to fire them if their demands are to high?
 
I believe Unions are run like the Mafia and act as the same. They also are blindly following and anti-American who I see as a Godless Ideologue, who is bent of our destruction in favor of his idea of Socialist/Marxist utopia.

Your belief system needs some reality injected into it. LOL! Do you also oppose the "Anti-American Socialist/Marxist utopia" military, social security, public schooling, Medicare, public infrastructure, etc. I am not asking you leave Socialist America, but just suggesting you might be happier in capitalist Mexico. LOL!
 
Why should their be a "level" playing field?
there should be a level playing field to prevent the employee from being exploited
before unionism was pervasive, employees were obliged to do whatever the employer required - or leave
on its face, that seems reasonable, but it's actually exploitative (or has the potential to be)
you likely won't have to look around too far today to find someone who spent their career working for some company, only to be terminated (at will, since they were not working under union contract terms). the employer terminates them to hire a younger, cheaper employee ... and to avoid having to pay the retirement benefits to the employee who had spent his career working for the company but was just before becoming vested in that retirement plan
by this time, the terminated older employee likely has a difficult time getting a similar job elsewhere and may not have enough working years remaining to qualify for a retirement package
this is something the younger workers who are opposed to unionization should contemplate

They do not have the responsibility of the risk of property or investments at the job they work for.
they have invested their years of service. that is something they cannot recover. they have denied themselves the ability to work elsewhere to accumulate a better salary and benefits

Why should new employees be automatically grandfathered into the union?
the workplace is what is found to be a union activity, if the election has determined that was the decision of the majority of the rank and file. all non management employees are then covered by the union contract, whether the employee pays union dues or not. the union must represent the non dues paying bargaining unit members just as it represents the interests of the dues paying union members. the only thing the employee gets by paying dues that they do not otherwise enjoy at a bargaining unit location, is the ability to vote in the union elections (and to be an officer of the union). please note that option to pay union dues or not exists only in the right-to-work states

Why shouldn't they have to vote for representation?
as was noted above, it is the workplace that was elected to be represented by the union. employees who are added or who replace exiting workers are automatically union represented employees (bargaining unit members)
in the federal sector where i gained my experience, a contractor's employees may have voted to become unionized. if at the end of that contractor's contract period, if another contractor wins the follow on contract, that new contractor inherits a unionized workplace
the contractor and all employees may be different than what was there previously, but the work site remains a unionized bargaining unit

just as elections can be conducted to bring a union in to represent a work place, an election can be held (again with a 30% showing of employees) to de-certify a union. in that situation 50% of the employees plus one will be enough to end the union representation at the work site


Why shouldn't the employer be able to fire them if their demands are to high?
the employer does not have to agree to anything. it must freely engage/participate in negotiations. there will often be an impasse of the parties. when agreement is not reached the federal impasses panel comes in to divide the baby. whichever party's position was most reasonable at the time of the impasse, as determined by the impasse panel, becomes the contract terms. so, if the union over reached, the employer's position would be found most legitimate and thus directed to be adopted. if the employer was the less reasonable party, the impasse panel would direct that the terms proposed by the union at the time of impasse would then be binding on the parties
that aspect is little understood. if you seek too much and have to go to impasse, you will likely be the losing party
 
Are you for real? Now a job at Boeing is equal to being a slave?

You are worse than a racist because you minimize the ugliness of true slavery with such reprehensible comparisons. Have you no dignity?

I checked my junk, I am for real. Any job makes you a slave to higher master that controls your destiny as long as you work for them. Speaking of real, do you have problems with reality, comprehension, problem solving, logical reasoning?

For being an independent you seem to be a practicing "politically correct" professor that misconstrues the intention of statements. Did you come to this site looking for a good day of trolling?

trolling2.jpg
 
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Are you for real? Now a job at Boeing is equal to being a slave?

You are worse than a racist because you minimize the ugliness of true slavery with such reprehensible comparisons. Have you no dignity?

I checked my junk, I am for real. Any job makes you a slave to higher master that controls your destiny as long as you work for them. Speaking of real, do you have problems with reality, comprehension, problem solving, logical reasoning?

For being an independent you seem to be a practicing "politically correct" professor that misconstrues the intention of statements. Did you come to this site looking for a good day of trolling?

trolling2.jpg

Moderator's Warning:
You two, and any one else, do not attack other posters, and if you feel some one is trolling, report the post, do not comment on it in thread. Take your personal issues to a more appropriate section of the board, ie the basement.
 
there should be a level playing field to prevent the employee from being exploited
before unionism was pervasive, employees were obliged to do whatever the employer required - or leave
on its face, that seems reasonable, but it's actually exploitative (or has the potential to be)
you likely won't have to look around too far today to find someone who spent their career working for some company, only to be terminated (at will, since they were not working under union contract terms). the employer terminates them to hire a younger, cheaper employee ... and to avoid having to pay the retirement benefits to the employee who had spent his career working for the company but was just before becoming vested in that retirement plan
by this time, the terminated older employee likely has a difficult time getting a similar job elsewhere and may not have enough working years remaining to qualify for a retirement package
this is something the younger workers who are opposed to unionization should contemplate

But there is no law requiring an employer to provide an retirement and if someone is willing to work for cheaper, why shouldn't he/she be replaced?

Widespread exploitative businesses before unionization is a myth perpetuated by ****ty history teachers.

they have invested their years of service. that is something they cannot recover. they have denied themselves the ability to work elsewhere to accumulate a better salary and benefits

That's not an investment, they got paid for working the whole time.
An investment is putting up money and time in exchange for a future payout, these employees have already been paid.

the workplace is what is found to be a union activity, if the election has determined that was the decision of the majority of the rank and file. all non management employees are then covered by the union contract, whether the employee pays union dues or not. the union must represent the non dues paying bargaining unit members just as it represents the interests of the dues paying union members. the only thing the employee gets by paying dues that they do not otherwise enjoy at a bargaining unit location, is the ability to vote in the union elections (and to be an officer of the union). please note that option to pay union dues or not exists only in the right-to-work states

But why should they be?
Why should new workers automatically be grandfathered?

as was noted above, it is the workplace that was elected to be represented by the union. employees who are added or who replace exiting workers are automatically union represented employees (bargaining unit members)
in the federal sector where i gained my experience, a contractor's employees may have voted to become unionized. if at the end of that contractor's contract period, if another contractor wins the follow on contract, that new contractor inherits a unionized workplace
the contractor and all employees may be different than what was there previously, but the work site remains a unionized bargaining unit

just as elections can be conducted to bring a union in to represent a work place, an election can be held (again with a 30% showing of employees) to de-certify a union. in that situation 50% of the employees plus one will be enough to end the union representation at the work site

New employees did not elect to be represented as such.

the employer does not have to agree to anything. it must freely engage/participate in negotiations. there will often be an impasse of the parties. when agreement is not reached the federal impasses panel comes in to divide the baby. whichever party's position was most reasonable at the time of the impasse, as determined by the impasse panel, becomes the contract terms. so, if the union over reached, the employer's position would be found most legitimate and thus directed to be adopted. if the employer was the less reasonable party, the impasse panel would direct that the terms proposed by the union at the time of impasse would then be binding on the parties
that aspect is little understood. if you seek too much and have to go to impasse, you will likely be the losing party

The employer should be completely able to walk away if the demands are to much.
Currently they can't do that when the employee can, why don't we make that level?
 
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