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Petition to recall Wisconsin GOP Sen. Sheila Harsdorf to be filed Tuesday

Boo Radley said:
It's important that we not base our opinions on faulty assumptions. Assuming that tax cuts lead to jobs is not supported by studies, and it is important to recognize this.

As for Wisconsin, that too is more complicated than blaming either the unions or tax cuts. If you busted the union completely, did away with all their benefits, you would not save Wisconsin. Like the federal government, you need a combination of efforts, and the burden should not be placed on the least capable alone.
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The real question should be what will the taxes be used for, not whether the lack of them creates jobs. Congress needs to justify the taking of money from people, not whether they are allowed to keep it.
 
Boo Radley said:
As for Wisconsin, that too is more complicated than blaming either the unions or tax cuts. If you busted the union completely, did away with all their benefits, you would not save Wisconsin. Like the federal government, you need a combination of efforts, and the burden should not be placed on the least capable alone.
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Wow, no kidding. Lots of reasons why WI is in such a large deficit spending? Genius, I tell you.

Anyway, ignoring the obvious statement...

Addressing the pieces of the budet that are the highest percentage of spending is necessary. Unfortunately, in WI and most other states, some of the highest percentage of their spending is PSU compensation. It has to be addressed in order to have a chance of getting a handle on their deficit.

Not addressing PSU employee spending on the state level would be similar to not addressing entitlements and military spending on the ederal level and still believing you can pay back the deficit.

Reversing the small tax cuts that were recently passed in WI, will not make a dent in their deficit or overall budget contrary to what many of your friends on the left think.
 
from Buck

Reversing the small tax cuts that were recently passed in WI, will not make a dent in their deficit or overall budget contrary to what many of your friends on the left think.
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Your accounting methods seem highly selective and based on something other than actuall dollars and cents.

I, and most conservatives, believe there is a benefit to tax cuts in attracting businesses.
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Now that clears it up... you BELIEVE. There in a nutshell is why this country is going to hell on a roller coaster and the right wing is busy greasing the tracks.
 
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haymarket said:
Your accounting methods seem highly selective and based on something other than actuall dollars and cents..
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Yes, because lets face it. Reversing a less then 1% cost to a budget while ignoring a 20 percent cost to the budget is the way to go and will get WI right back to a ship shape financial picture.
 
buck said:
Wow, no kidding. Lots of reasons why WI is in such a large deficit spending? Genius, I tell you.

Anyway, ignoring the obvious statement...

Addressing the pieces of the budet that are the highest percentage of spending is necessary. Unfortunately, in WI and most other states, some of the highest percentage of their spending is PSU compensation. It has to be addressed in order to have a chance of getting a handle on their deficit.

Not addressing PSU employee spending on the state level would be similar to not addressing entitlements and military spending on the ederal level and still believing you can pay back the deficit.

Reversing the small tax cuts that were recently passed in WI, will not make a dent in their deficit or overall budget contrary to what many of your friends on the left think.
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Much is not complicated here, so of course much will be obvious. Neither effort by ittself will touch the WI budget, and that is the point. However, some reading:

Are Wisconsin Public Employees Over-Compensated?

(snip)

Conclusion: Wisconsin public employees are not overpaid

The earnings equation estimates indicate that state and local government employees in Wisconsin are not overpaid.
Rather, local and state public employees are undercompensated.

http://epi.3cdn.net/9e237c56096a8e4904_rkm6b9hn1.pdf

News from EPI: EPI study finds, Wisconsin public-sector workers under-compensated

Budget Adjustment Bill Does Not Actually Repair the Budget

http://www.wisconsinbudgetproject.org/budget_adjustment_bill_comparisons.pdf

It’s true, however, that they will add $117.2 million to the projected $3.6 billion budget gap in the next two-year budget cycle, which begins July 1, 2011, Lang says. So, the tax cuts make the deficit larger in next budget cycle, but not this one.

Walker’s Tax Cuts | FactCheck.org
 
LOL!

what self respecting poster would try to pass off epi and wccf as links?

pathetic
 
GPS_Flex said:
Probably. Republicans are always for or against crap when it is politically convenient. Democrats are no different though so we’re basically screwed aren’t we?
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Not really - if you are middle-class you are for certain screwed when the Reps are in, if you are wealthy, you may not get to keep as much when Dems are in, but you probably are not screwed either way.
 
Boo Radley said:
Much is not complicated here, so of course much will be obvious. Neither effort by ittself will touch the WI budget, and that is the point. However, some reading:

Are Wisconsin Public Employees Over-Compensated?

(snip)

Conclusion: Wisconsin public employees are not overpaid

The earnings equation estimates indicate that state and local government employees in Wisconsin are not overpaid.
Rather, local and state public employees are undercompensated.

http://epi.3cdn.net/9e237c56096a8e4904_rkm6b9hn1.pdf

News from EPI: EPI study finds, Wisconsin public-sector workers under-compensated
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That must be the reason there is such a shortage of public sector employees and the public sector has such high turnover rates. Yeah...
 
buck said:
That must be the reason there is such a shortage of public sector employees and the public sector has such high turnover rates. Yeah...
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Or maybe there are other reasons. Few teachers for example are in the profession for money alone. Most are actually good people working hard to make a real difference.
 
Boo Radley said:
Few teachers for example are in the profession for money alone.
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link?

Most are actually good people working hard to make a real difference.
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don't forget the short work days, 3 months paid vacation, untouchable status of tenure...
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Democracy is a messy think pal. How did the democrats force the health care law down our throats again? Did they really force it down?
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omg let me take this one.

first of all a couple of back door deals
One involved an $80 billion closed-door pact between Obama and the top pharmaceutical industry lobbyist, a pact to lower drug costs that critics charge was entirely too soft on the industry. Then came the $100 million deal to benefit Senator Ben Nelson’s home state of Nebraska to secure his vote.

then the vast majority of Americans at he very least strongly voiced they had reservations of what was in the damn thing never mind whether or not it had merit.
Massachusetts, arguably the most liberal state in the union sent Scott Brown to at least further the converstaion while we figured out what was in the bill.
So Obama bypassed the senate and went back to the House bill and used it to yes "cram it down our throats".
im not sure what channel you are watching but change it.

and ironically the GOP tried to do the same thing with the budget last month and Obama and most LIBS cried foull, no way they said, not fair.

the Hypocrisy of this administration if nothing else shouldcost him "12", but as I've said before, the GOP still has to offer a worthy opponent.
Obama could talk himself out of DUI after a fifth of bourbon, but a lot of Independaants are onto him.

Its going to be harder for him this time I assure you. Voting for a color is all he may have this time.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Democracy is a messy think pal. How did the democrats force the health care law down our throats again? Did they really force it down?
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shades said:
omg let me take this one.

first of all a couple of back door deals
One involved an $80 billion closed-door pact between Obama and the top pharmaceutical industry lobbyist, a pact to lower drug costs that critics charge was entirely too soft on the industry. Then came the $100 million deal to benefit Senator Ben Nelson’s home state of Nebraska to secure his vote.

then the vast majority of Americans at he very least strongly voiced they had reservations of what was in the damn thing never mind whether or not it had merit.
Massachusetts, arguably the most liberal state in the union sent Scott Brown to at least further the converstaion while we figured out what was in the bill.
So Obama bypassed the senate and went back to the House bill and used it to yes "cram it down our throats".
im not sure what channel you are watching but change it.

and ironically the GOP tried to do the same thing with the budget last month and Obama and most LIBS cried foull, no way they said, not fair.

the Hypocrisy of this administration if nothing else shouldcost him "12", but as I've said before, the GOP still has to offer a worthy opponent.
Obama could talk himself out of DUI after a fifth of bourbon, but a lot of Independaants are onto him.

Its going to be harder for him this time I assure you. Voting for a color is all he may have this time.
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That's the deal Obama has since gone back on, right? The one the big pharma's are all pissed about right now?

Oh... wait... Obama went back on that deal for Nebraska too.

I'm sensing a pattern here.
 
buck said:
I, and most conservatives, believe there is a benefit to tax cuts in attracting businesses. I have seen that benefit, as a couple of companies have already relocated from N. illinois to WI.

But the overall point is that reversing 140 million in business relocation tax cuts is not going to help a 3.6 billion dollar deficit. PSU employees make up 20% percent of total WI spending or 60% of the state's operations budget. The tax cuts, infinitesimally less.
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You think it is the teachers, policemen and firefighters that caused our recession? The amount cut from educators is about the same amount given in new tax breaks to corporations.

Whoever is willing to have the stupdist kids wins, right? is that the thinking?
 
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TheDemSocialist said:
How did the democrats force the health care law down our throats again? Did they really force it down?
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well, they resorted to senate reconciliation to get it passed

they were actually prepared to deem the dumb thing in pelosi's place only days before

lbj and fdr, bless their hearts, were smart enough to cultivate significant support from their opposition before implementing their major reforms, social security, the civil rights act, medicare

indeed, more republicans proportionally than dems endorsed civil rights, and it required everett dirksen's breaking of richard russell's and bobby byrd's filibuster to win it thru

but that's history

today, it is what it is

obamacare is the law of the land with zero gop votes upstairs and only one in the house, joseph cao, the vietnamese seminarian from new orleans who lost his job on tsunami tuesday

in other words, live it, libs, love it

obamacare---it's all yours
 
Boo Radley said:
Or maybe there are other reasons. Few teachers for example are in the profession for money alone. Most are actually good people working hard to make a real difference.
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Or maybe it's that they get 3 months off per year, make good salary, get good benefits and a lifetime pension. I know that's the reason my uncle stayed in the streets and sanitation department in Chicago for so long. The guy's living large off his pension. Owns a couple of houses here and In Fla paid for by me and the other tax payers of our crooked city.
 
Catawba said:
Countries that banned unions. These are the countries that the right wants to emulate. Great company eh?

China
Burma
North Korea
United Arab Emirates
Hitl.er’s Germany
Sta.lin’s Russia
Mus.solini*’s Italy
Franco’s Spain
Napoleon’s France
Saddam’s Iraq
Bremer’s Iraq”

outofstepper: Just found this so real quick: Countries that banned unions.
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LOL, well you know what they say about opinions don't you, their like A Holes and everyone has one and they all stink. Now that you brought it up, if the right was to actually compare the lefts beliefs opposed to the right, you will find factually that the left is more closely aligned to what you just posted. i see a lot of leftest avatars that emulate Red Stars, Che, socialist etc. Although I will give that most republicans are gutless and they just tow the line just to get along.
 
deltabtry said:
LOL, well you know what they say about opinions don't you, their like A Holes and everyone has one and they all stink. Now that you brought it up, if the right was to actually compare the lefts beliefs opposed to the right, you will find factually that the left is more closely aligned to what you just posted. i see a lot of leftest avatars that emulate Red Stars, Che, socialist etc. Although I will give that most republicans are gutless and they just tow the line just to get along.
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Another that believes our forefathers were more socialist than we are today since they assesed the rich higher taxes and created and upheld the Constitutionality of SS and M/M for the last 8 decades.

It will be most interesting to see how this class war plays out with the working class next November. :sun
 
Catawba said:
Another that believes our forefathers were more socialist than we are today since they assesed the rich higher taxes and created and upheld the Constitutionality of SS and M/M for the last 8 decades.

It will be most interesting to see how this class war plays out with the working class next November. :sun
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I am sorry I was rude in my last response, but come on you couldn't be serious.
Our founding forefathers actually where the true liberals and not socialist by any means, they just fought a 4 years revolution to get out from under tyranny.
 
Catawba said:
Another that believes our forefathers were more socialist than we are today since they assesed the rich higher taxes and created and upheld the Constitutionality of SS and M/M for the last 8 decades.

It will be most interesting to see how this class war plays out with the working class next November. :sun
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I won't really matter who wins, the state will be insolvent and then everyone will be loser and the biggest losers in all this will be the public employees. Bankruptcy once achieved really has no prejudice, when there no money there's no money regardless of party.
 
deltabtry said:
I am sorry I was rude in my last response, but come on you couldn't be serious.
Our founding forefathers actually where the true liberals and not socialist by any means, they just fought a 4 years revolution to get out from under tyranny.
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Thank you for the apology. BTW, I specifically said our forefathers of the last 8 decades. That would be our fathers, grandfathers, and great-grandfathers that the far-right are implying were more socialist than we are today, since they assessed the rich more in taxes and established and supported SS and M/M as Constitutional.

Since you bring up the founding fathers, they are the ones that provided the intent of the Constitution, which they spelled out in the Preamble. There is nothing tyrannical in following the intent of our Constitution. That has been the determination under our rule of law under both parties for the last 80 years.

My father was a tank commander in WWII at the Battle of the Bulge and I would not in any way consider him a socialist.
 
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danarhea said:
4 down and 4 to go, although I believe that only 5 or possibly 6 out of the 8 will end up being recalled. Still, considering the difficulty of recall in Wisconsin, this is a very impressive number - Which goes to show you that, if you are elitist enough to believe that you can do anything you want after being elected, and act like thugs while doing it, you are going to be hammered for it.

Folks, THIS is what Democracy looks like.

Article is here.
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Perhaps should actions could be called "teacall petitions." You are hereby "teacalled." Sounds effeminate, doesn't it? Appropriate, too. You don't waltz into our state and try to take away our rights, you brownshirted sack of vermin. I therefore teacall you back to your legitimate domain of playinng with dolls in your mother's basement rather than scheming agaainst the livelihoods of people who work for a living.
 
I just heard today that the deadlines had been passed with out the signatures necessary to recall the Democrats, so the other side does not seem to have the same motivation to let the politicians know which side got it wrong in Wisconsin.
 
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