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House passes huge GOP budget cuts

obvious Child said:
Come again?

It appears debt under Carter and the preceding presidents was on the down turn.

National Debt Graph by President
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ALL funding of unconstitutional programs is debt that must be repaid eventually.

When considering the national debt, it's instructive to know that under Clinton the ten trillion dollar (10^10!!!!) national debt was easily seen to be the sum of the unconstitutional expenditures on Social Security, Welfare, and other programs. It did not include the unconstitutional spending on education and other federal programs lacking constitutional basis.

Furthermore, you seem to ignore that Reagan held the power of the Veto. And only 9 of his 39 vetos were overriden.
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Boy, this is retarded.

You people can't seem to figure out that mature adults, especially a mature adult trying to get the nation into recovery from the Disaster Known as Carter AND trying to secure victory against the Evil Empire, could not veto omnibus spending bills that would have crashed the economy if not passed.

You people want to pretend that little fairies exist that can work miracles, while the adults are actually constrained to stay in the real world and deal with real problems realistically. But, when they do that, you want to pretend their failure to wave your magic wand places the blame for the natural consequences on their shoulders, and not on the shoulders of the corrupt politicians who engineered the circumstances to turn out in that fashion.

And your refusal to blame those people comes from no other source than your own ignorant partisan loyalties to ideological principles that are the antithesis of the Constitutional principles that made this nation a success.

But you still want to post smarmy ignorant statements like "gee, where's the veto pen", as if that's the answer to the problems facing the nation today.

What's really retarded is that the Mayor is obligated to give this lecture to so many silly people and no matter how often the Mayor corrects them, there's always another ignorant person that will refuse to learn and will continue to post his ignorance.


To absolve him of spending problems seems highly dishonest.
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What's extremely dishonest to pretend Tip O'Neill's role in busting the budget was irrelevant, as is noting that the budget busting items were the unconstitutional items the Democrats expanded.

Also, note the vast tissue of lies propounded in the 1980's, the 3 million homeless bums that were somehow Reagan's fault, who magically vanished when the felonious perjeror was elected president. Note the scorn of the left-wing dominated media over Reagan's Space Defense Initiative. Note the continued lies about the alleged "mistakes of the past" when, rather than mistakes, Reagan's supply side economics reversed Carter's stagflation and generated 22 million jobs by the time Reagan left office.

Because Obama believes allowing the people who earn their money to keep their money is a "mistake", Obama is seeing an inflationary surge and an economy stalling in preparation for a second recession, just when he's dragged the nation into a third war without getting us out of either of the other two.
 
TurtleDude said:
wrong-its you dems who whine about the rich not paying enough in order to buy the votes of the people who pay nothing
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BS...this country runs best when there is revenue priming the pump. Reagans redistribution of wealth started to slow the well and today...the vast majority of the wealth of this country is in the hands of 3% of the population. They aren't putting money into the system which is why our economy is struggling. This 3% is content to ship American jobs and money overseas to increase their wealth even further.
 
disneydude said:
BS...this country runs best when there is revenue priming the pump. Reagans redistribution of wealth started to slow the well and today...the vast majority of the wealth of this country is in the hands of 3% of the population. They aren't putting money into the system which is why our economy is struggling. This 3% is content to ship American jobs and money overseas to increase their wealth even further.
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winners win losers lose but that 3% is not static so that sort of blows a big hole in your class envy
 
Let's get past all of the crap slinging on this page and get to the real fact, which I think I made earlier-Why can't people on both sides of the fence understand that the budget needs to be cut? Regardless of where it comes from, someone is going to pissed-whether it be those who rely on entitlement programs or those who don't want to pay more taxes.

We can keep bringing up past administrations, but that isn't going to get this country anywhere (even though many seem to think it led to a certain president winning an election...). The problem is NOW, and we can't afford to NOT fix it.

Personally, yes...I think entitlement programs should be reformed. Why, do you ask? It's not about a partisan decision, its about today's culture. We live in a society that does NOT promote hard work or earning your own way. Too many people see an opportunity for an easy break, take it, and say "Hey, I'll work later". That quote then turns into a repetitive tone that just continues as long as possible. If you want an example, just look at what happened in the housing market a few years back. Suddenly, everyone needed to own a house regardless if they could make the mortgage payments. I can almost hear it now, "I'll just pay it off later". Instead, these people could have worked for their homes and they probably wouldn't have been evicted. Again, just my opinion, but we live in a LAZY society.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
The US debt problems originated during the reagan admin,
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No. The US debt crisis commenced when FDR began pushing completely unconstitutional entitlement programs onto the public. That the nation could absorb those illegal programs for a short period is a testament to the strength of the nation's economy, not to any legitimacy of the programs. The existence of those programs drained tax revenues that could have been retained by the lawful owners of that money for their purposes, which would have led to expansions in the economy.

As for the Laffer curve it is too widely used with too little thought applied. It has to include analysis regarding overall economic activity ( ie bubbles like the housing bubble) relative tax rates compared to surrounding jurisdictions ( ie US vs Mexico). In most cases it is used in to far a simplistic basis by far too simple people. Tax revenues may rise or fall after a tax increase or decrease. To state that the tax increase or decrease is the cause without an indepth analysis of the economy is impossible
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Yes, as the Mayor pointed out, raising taxes when the nation is on the wrong side of the Laffer Curve is foolish.

Raising taxes now is one of the most foolish things ever considered, and is a symptom of the ideological obstinancy of the enemies seeking to tear down this republic and the useful idiots volunteering to help them out of their misguided and emotional, and hence irrational, desire to help to po'.

Wrecking the nation isn't going to help the po', people. It's past time you grew up and realized that. The cliff's edge is approaching fast, the nation needs you people to get away from the controls so the adults can try to fix things.
 
TurtleDude said:
stop lying. our forefathers would have judged you to be a traitor
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LOL! The "lawyer" dude needs to look up the difference between forefathers and founding fathers!

And, I don't share your peculiar notion that our forefathers of the last 80 years have all been communists.

you limit your understanding of history to the New Deal and sooner because that is when 130 years of law was discarded by FDR
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I understand the rule of law, something else you can look up, has held for the last 80 years that progressive taxes are Constitutional.

Of course there are those that do not believe in the rule of law................
 
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forefathers could be those who made thiis country great or those who started the problems facing us today. i suspect the ones you worship are the latter
 
Mayor Snorkum said:
No. The US debt crisis commenced when FDR began pushing completely unconstitutional entitlement programs onto the public. That the nation could absorb those illegal programs for a short period is a testament to the strength of the nation's economy, not to any legitimacy of the programs. The existence of those programs drained tax revenues that could have been retained by the lawful owners of that money for their purposes, which would have led to expansions in the economy.



Yes, as the Mayor pointed out, raising taxes when the nation is on the wrong side of the Laffer Curve is foolish.

Raising taxes now is one of the most foolish things ever considered, and is a symptom of the ideological obstinancy of the enemies seeking to tear down this republic and the useful idiots volunteering to help them out of their misguided and emotional, and hence irrational, desire to help to po'.

Wrecking the nation isn't going to help the po', people. It's past time you grew up and realized that. The cliff's edge is approaching fast, the nation needs you people to get away from the controls so the adults can try to fix things.
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Have you even a clue about the debt to GPD% of the US federal government over the last 100 years?

It reached a high point during WW2 and drecreased dramaticaly for a time, then remained stable untill the Reagan admin where it dramatically increased


As for the Laffer curve given the low level of US taxes compared to its history over the last 60 years I doubt the US is on the "wrong side" of it
 
And if you want proof of how a lazy society might be bad (besides, you know, the financial burden it places on the rest of the tax payers), look at the American Indians. If you know anything about the different tribes, you would know that the Lumbee tribe isn't recognized by the federal government. However, the Lumbees have large houses, deeds to their own land, large ranches, etc. Through NOT being recognized as a group that "needs help", they became strong capitalists and have (wait, that's right) BANKS on their land (Nope, no casinos).

Now, compare them to the Sioux tribe. Ever seen a Sioux reservation? Not only does it look like a very large, spread out trailer park, but it looks completely government run. In fact, to say that there are more gov. run businesses than private would be just stating the obvious. The majority of the Sioux tribe is steadily waiting on the government to feed them through such payments as subsidies. That's right, they don't have to work for the majority of their own money!

Somehow, I think this idea of "extending a hand and waiting for the government check" might not be such a great idea.
 
disneydude said:
Why do you people think that doing business in the US should be free?
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Why do you people think that doing business should carry a price tag?

Isn't the business performing a function necessary to the health of the nation, providing goods, and services, and incidentally providing jobs? Isn't that reward enough to the nation? Doesn't every business owner, and their employees, pay taxes on their wages and taxes on the goods they consume? Should that not, in itself, be sufficient, so that taxing the engines of job growth, thereby watering down the fuel mixture or clogging the air filter, leads to less growth and more inefficiencies?

Is your goal an efficient economy or revenge?

You guys act as if everything should be handed to you and you shouldn't have to pay anything back to the country that allowed you to make the profits in the first place.
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Perhaps you should read the Constitution someday. Just a thought, it's probably a waste of time for everyone concerned, but, perhaps, if you could find someone with a copy of the Constitution who's willing to risk letting you see it, you could learn what the basis of this country is. It's not a matter of "allowing" people to run businesses and earn their livings, it's that this nation presumes people have the inherent freedom to run their own affairs.

That's probably why all those Americans you keep arguing with keep telling you that confiscatory taxation is wrong.

What's funny is that you people both insist that businesses be taxed so far up their wazoo that their uvulas have a price tag, but you then whine incessantly about "outsourcing" as if you really are blind to the consequences of what you demand.

I'm so tired of this selfish...me me me...attitude that comes from those that think that they owe nothing to this great country.
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Cuba is a short raft ride south of Key West....
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Have you even a clue about the debt to GPD% of the US federal government over the last 100 years?

It reached a high point during WW2 and drecreased dramaticaly for a time, then remained stable untill the Reagan admin where it dramatically increased


As for the Laffer curve given the low level of US taxes compared to its history over the last 60 years I doubt the US is on the "wrong side" of it
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The deficit as a % of GDP during the 80s was never close to what it has been the last three years. As a matter of fact if you go back the last thrity years the deficit has not been as high in any year as it has been in each of the last three years.
 
Mayor Snorkum said:
Why do you people think that doing business should carry a price tag?

Isn't the business performing a function necessary to the health of the nation, providing goods, and services, and incidentally providing jobs? Isn't that reward enough to the nation? Doesn't every business owner, and their employees, pay taxes on their wages and taxes on the goods they consume? Should that not, in itself, be sufficient, so that taxing the engines of job growth, thereby watering down the fuel mixture or clogging the air filter, leads to less growth and more inefficiencies?

Is your goal an efficient economy or revenge?



Perhaps you should read the Constitution someday. Just a thought, it's probably a waste of time for everyone concerned, but, perhaps, if you could find someone with a copy of the Constitution who's willing to risk letting you see it, you could learn what the basis of this country is. It's not a matter of "allowing" people to run businesses and earn their livings, it's that this nation presumes people have the inherent freedom to run their own affairs.

That's probably why all those Americans you keep arguing with keep telling you that confiscatory taxation is wrong.

What's funny is that you people both insist that businesses be taxed so far up their wazoo that their uvulas have a price tag, but you then whine incessantly about "outsourcing" as if you really are blind to the consequences of what you demand.



Cuba is a short raft ride south of Key West....
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This isn't an attack on paying taxes, this is an attack on capitalism. What's wrong with keeping the money you rightfully earn? Isn't that part of the American Dream, "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness"? Why would anyone want to push for success in this country if we knew you would be taxed like a rented mule in the end? What good would come from that?
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Have you even a clue about the debt to GPD% of the US federal government over the last 100 years?
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Have you any concept of what the payments on the 107 trillion dollars of currently unfunded liabilities is going to look like your grandchildren?

It reached a high point during WW2 and drecreased dramaticaly for a time, then remained stable untill the Reagan admin where it dramatically increased
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And, when Obama's fantastical debt starts hitting the fan, and the United States will not be able to export it's union manufactured junk to a world that's moved on past WWII, what's going to happen to your children and grandchildren?

That's right, they're going to default on the loans people like you foolishly insisted we persist in taking out.

As for the Laffer curve given the low level of US taxes compared to its history over the last 60 years I doubt the US is on the "wrong side" of it
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The average American is paying roughly 50% of his wages in taxes. The nation is clearly on the wrong side of the Laffer Curve.

Correction: The average American who pays taxes.

Far too many citizens are freeloaders, but all you people can whine about is the 2% of the people paying 50% of the taxes. You never have anything to say about the nearly 50% of the people who pay no taxes at all.
 
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TurtleDude said:
LOL-your failure to address the issues is hilarious. you can call me ignorant all you want if that helps you with your real issues

but the fact remains-you have no credibility once you claim that top tax payers aren't paying their fair share
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I've already proven the top tax payers do not pay the same percentage of their wealth as does the middle class. That is what the progressive taxes designed to correct. Our forefathers realized they needed away to address the two class system.

and you cannot prove that taxing the rich more will help anything
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I can absolutely prove that it will increase our revenue!

and its completely understandable why you don't want to deal with the fact that the current tax system has caused such a mess
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I have dealt with the fact just fine that our current tax system with the top tax rates slashed by the GOP has caused such a mess!

If we ever decide to address our debt, we will have to make our tax system more progressive.
 
ECU_Drummer said:
This isn't an attack on paying taxes, this is an attack on capitalism. What's wrong with keeping the money you rightfully earn? Isn't that part of the American Dream, "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness"? Why would anyone want to push for success in this country if we knew you would be taxed like a rented mule in the end? What good would come from that?
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Attacking capitalism is an attack on the quintessential principles this nation was founded on.

There's not only nothing wrong with a man keeping what he's earned, taking it from him for no other reason that he has it is completely contrary to the American Dream.

No one wants to push for success when the end result is a guaranteed mugging, that's true, and that's what the Mayor has been arguing.

No good comes from shooting the geese laying the golden eggs, but that doesn't stop the Lefties from doing it anyway.
 
TurtleDude said:
so you think spending like drunken sailors and buying votes with money we don't have is caring about fellow americans?
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Spending like drunken sailors is spending money and blood for wars that need not be fought. Spend money for defense at cold war levels is spending like drunken sailors.
 
washunut said:
The deficit as a % of GDP during the 80s was never close to what it has been the last three years. As a matter of fact if you go back the last thrity years the deficit has not been as high in any year as it has been in each of the last three years.
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If you run up a big debt and elect to reduce your income, what do you expect to happen?
 
washunut said:
The deficit as a % of GDP during the 80s was never close to what it has been the last three years. As a matter of fact if you go back the last thrity years the deficit has not been as high in any year as it has been in each of the last three years.
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Quite true

But the last three years are hold a rather significant fact. The final collapse of consumer demand driven by debt in the US. Something that has been building for the last 30 years or so. The US govenment had the choice of a massive deflationary event by providing no government stimulus to the economy. But I doubt any president ( Ron Paul excepted) would have done pretty much the same as Obama has, for the most part Obama has followed the same policies as Bush when it comes to the economy. McCain would have done not much different, a couple hundred billion here or there, which when talking about 1.6 trillion deficits is rather small when it comes to differences in government spending

Now as Keynesian theory suggests that durin good economic periods running a governmengt surplus is in order to fund government deficits during the bad years, the question would be, why was not surplus run during the bush 2 years and the good years of the reagan admin? Government surplus's certainly can be achieved. Canada, Australia ran them during the early to mid part of Bush 2 years. Meaning the US could have as well
 
disneydude said:
House passes huge GOP budget cuts, opposing Obama - Yahoo! News

Republicans controlling the House pushed to passage on Friday a bold but politically dangerous budget blueprint to slash social safety net programs like food stamps and Medicaid and fundamentally restructure Medicare health care for the elderly.

The choice in the next election is becoming more and more clear. There is no question which party represents the interests of the wealthy and which party represents the interests of the rest of the country.

The GOP fought hard earlier to preserve tax cuts for those making over 250K. Today they showed how they want to pay for those cuts...by slashing money from food stamps, medicaid and medicare.

The GOP war on the elderly, the poor and the working class continues....
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The Republicans passed this because they know Democrats won't let it through the Senate or past the President.

However, I did not see the outrage when Democrats included deep cuts to Medicare, in the Obamacare bill.
In fact quite the opposite, there was praise and joy.

For those in the know, Medicare has to be cut, so does Medicaid as well as defense spending and other programs, in order for us to bring our budget in line and pay down the debt.

Delaying or preventing it from happening will eventually put the country in a death spiral.
 
Mayor Snorkum said:
Have you any concept of what the payments on the 107 trillion dollars of currently unfunded liabilities is going to look like your grandchildren?



And, when Obama's fantastical debt starts hitting the fan, and the United States will not be able to export it's union manufactured junk to a world that's moved on past WWII, what's going to happen to your children and grandchildren?

That's right, they're going to default on the loans people like you foolishly insisted we persist in taking out.



The average American is paying roughly 50% of his wages in taxes. The nation is clearly on the wrong side of the Laffer Curve.

Correction: The average American who pays taxes.

Far too many citizens are freeloaders, but all you people can whine about is the 2% of the people paying 50% of the taxes. You never have anything to say about the nearly 50% of the people who pay no taxes at all.
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Well I dont expect the retired to pay income taxes on no income, or childern and students in school to pay income taxes on no income
 
Catawba said:
I understand the rule of law, something else you can look up, has held for the last 80 years that progressive taxes are Constitutional.

Of course there are those that do not believe in the rule of law................
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Yes. There are those who realize the Courts are a political body and often write rulings to achieve political ends at odds with the Constititution.

Plessy v Ferguson was not Constitutional
Roe v Wade was fiction-based.
Kelo v New London is clearly based in Mammon, not the Constitution.
The Miller decision that led to the imposition of gun control laws is clearly based on falsity.
The decisions that accepted the New Deal scams were political in nature, and almost none of them have any valid constitutional backing, especially not any of the entitlement scams, such as Social Security and the FHA.

That's the problems lawyers have with the United States Constitution. It was written in English, and Americans can both read it and decide for themselves when the damn courts are pulling **** out of their asses.
 
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Harry Guerrilla said:
The Republicans passed this because they know Democrats won't let it through the Senate or past the President.

However, I did not see the outrage when Democrats included deep cuts to Medicare, in the Obamacare bill.
In fact quite the opposite, there was praise and joy.
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Are you talking about the huge savings to be made by having the government manage the Advantage Care, rather than the past practice of letting private companies provide it at a much greater cost?

That is cutting waste, something I thought we were all interested in, except the insurance companies that have been making record profits at our great expense.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Well I dont expect the retired to pay income taxes on no income, or childern and students in school to pay income taxes on no income
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But besides the absurdities you post, there's the welfare program known as the Earned Income Tax Credit, to name one scam that exempts a solid fraction of the public from paying taxes. Everyone else, who earns more money, doesn't get that credit.
 
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