• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Sea-based Missile Defense Flight Test Results in Successful Intercept

TheDemSocialist said:
Why must we? Were in no serious danger what so ever! Were not in danger! If we wanna start cutting defense lets cut this.
Yea remote so why do we have to waste tax payer money on this? I seriously think they wont give weapons to anyone that wants to bomb us.. Sure Iran talks a lot of big game but in all serious do you think they are actually going to use these weapons?
Click to expand...

Thanks for your opinions. When you are ready to make a real argument, let me know.

Yes, I think Iran will give weapons to someone who wants to kill us if they think they can avoid being caught.
 
Last edited:
GPS_Flex said:
Oh, and that has what to do with the missile defense system exactly, other than your hatred of everything America?
Click to expand...

Here we go with "I hate everything America" talk again :roll
 
TheDemSocialist said:
How is social programs considered wasteful but this not?
Click to expand...

Because national defense is a necessary function of all governments, social programs are a violation of the United States Constitution.

Why do we really "need" this?
Click to expand...

To save American lives when the nutcase country fires a nuclear ICBM/IRBM at Washington/Los Angeles/New York/Boston/Chicago/San Francisco/Seattle/New Orleans/Whatevercitygetsthemhard.


Is Russia, Canada, China, or Iran going to invade us soon or are we on the threat of being invaded by them?
Click to expand...

There are materials denser then neutronium, ....never mind...

Was Afghanistan going to invade the United States after it's successful attack on September 11th? Was Japan going to ever invade the United States after it's successful attack on December 7? What kind of Sesame Street world do you people live in, anyway?
 
GPS_Flex said:
The threat of being “invaded” by a missile is real but I wouldn’t put Russia or China very high on the list of possible threats and only a buffoon would consider Canada a threat.

As to why this we should fund this vs social programs: Government is wasteful no matter what it does. Social programs aren’t constitutionally mandated but programs like this are. Besides, even if the government were capable of running every social program under the sun with 99% efficiency, they would all be worthless if/and when a nuke hit a major city.

Take your buddy Hugo Chavez as an example. If he builds utopia in Venezuela but the USA decides to bomb him into the stone age, his utopian programs will be pretty worthless at that point won’t they?
Click to expand...

Work on this some, dude.

Social programs aren't constitutionally allowed to the federal government.

Period.

National defense is required.
 
DaveFagan said:
They won't have to steal it. Corporations are loyal to the strong currency and the renminbi is really comin' on. Corporations are in business to make money and if the Chinese offer the top dollar, they will own the technology. That is the American Corporate way. They don't live and breathe and I don't notice anything about patriotism in an accounting ledger. The sad facts!
Click to expand...

If an American defense company did this they would be blacklisted and gutted with fines and imprisonment. The death penalty is also on the table for treason.

Major defense contractors take ITAR very very very seriously.
International Traffic in Arms Regulations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Still we already spend 687,105,000,000, which is 4.7% of the GDP. China comes in second wayyyy behind us 114,300,000,000 which is only 2.2% of their GDP. Do we really "need" to do this. No matter what it states in the constitution that does not excuse the grave amount we spend on defense. Hell when our country was on the red button during the height of the cold way we did not even spend this much!
Click to expand...

You should be aware that part of the issue with our military budget is that we have much higher wages as well as all sorts of social services for military personnel that you may not have in other countries or that are more expensive than in a country like China. It should also be noted that the latest budget figures include spending on military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan that were previously separate from the budget so part of the increase is not really an increase at all. These ballistic missile defenses, however, have plenty of bang for their buck. Even though it will not be 100% effective, I cannot think of any weapons that are, just preventing a single nuclear weapon from hitting near a major city would avert billions of dollars in damage never mind the obvious value of saving human lives and I think these systems will be capable of more than just one successful interception in combat conditions.
 
GPS_Flex said:
American corporations that work in the American defense sector aren’t about to sell America out to the highest bidder. You have some serious issues if you think otherwise.
Click to expand...

That's utter bull****. Loral Corp under umm.. Bernie Schwartz gave China MIRV technology simply to close the deal on a single satellite launch, and the Clinton administations Department of Commerce, in exchange for campaign cash to the DNC, gave it the go ahead.
 
ludahai said:
How can we teachers teach kids when their parents don't push their kids to do homework and instead let their kids play basketball all hours of the night???
Click to expand...

"WE" cannot. Nor is it our responsibility to force the children of others to learn when their parents believe the correct positioning of condoms is more important than bounding an algebra problem or writing a successful essay about MacBeth (in case some of you are public school graduates, a MacBeth is not vegetarian beef substitue at a global fast food chain.)

As the Mayor insists, the nation will never have a need to import unskilled labor when there's a public school around somewhere to fill the need.
 
Missile defense systems are the most idiotic waste of taxpayer money imaginable. These kind of programs should be the first thing on the chopping block when we're looking at budget cuts. The threat from nuclear weapons doesn't come from nation-states with ICBMs, it comes from terrorists smuggling them into New York Harbor.
 
Last edited:
Mayor Snorkum said:
That's utter bull****. Loral Corp under umm.. Bernie Schwartz gave China MIRV technology simply to close the deal on a single satellite launch, and the Clinton administations Department of Commerce, in exchange for campaign cash to the DNC, gave it the go ahead.
Click to expand...

I don’t know what rock you live on but you are about to pick a fight you can’t win.

I wasn’t talking about the government passing military grade secretes to China, I was talking about corporations passing military secrets for profit. You need to back up and check the dialogue or I’m going to open a can of humiliation on you my friend.
 
Kandahar said:
Missile defense systems are the most idiotic waste of taxpayer money imaginable. These kind of programs should be the first thing on the chopping block when we're looking at budget cuts. The threat from nuclear weapons doesn't come from nation-states with ICBMs, it comes from terrorists smuggling them into New York Harbor.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the inaccurate opinion. The government, which you love and trust whole heartedly because you are a liberal, disagrees with you.

Oh, news flash for the politically numb: the threat isn’t one dimensional. We live in the same four dimensional world that those who want to kill us live in. Thank God you aren’t in charge of defending America.
 
GPS_Flex said:
Ok, what do you love about America?
Click to expand...

Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, our cultural diversity, democracy, our republic, our land, the idea that we will always have a say in this country, our constitution... Do you seriously want me to say more?
 
GPS_Flex said:
Thanks for the inaccurate opinion. The government, which you love and trust whole heartedly because you are a liberal, disagrees with you.
Click to expand...

Oh I can already tell that you're going to be a mental giant. :roll:
Arguing that we should do X, Y, and Z strictly because the government says so is ****ing retarded.

GPS_Flex said:
Oh, news flash for the politically numb: the threat isn’t one dimensional. We live in the same four dimensional world that those who want to kill us live in. Thank God you aren’t in charge of defending America.
Click to expand...

We need to do a cost/benefit analysis of these sort of things. The risk of another nation attacking us with ICBMs (and that the system successfully shoots them down) is exceedingly low. The risk of a terrorist group attacking us with nuclear weapons is much, much higher. A missile defense system is an extraordinary waste of money relative to the actual risk that we face from a nation-state firing missiles at us.

But I suppose that as long as there are people like you who are willing to shriek loudly about any threat, however remote, the possibilities of the government actually conducting (and using) a risk analysis are slim to none.
 
Last edited:
Kandahar said:
Missile defense systems are the most idiotic waste of taxpayer money imaginable. These kind of programs should be the first thing on the chopping block when we're looking at budget cuts. The threat from nuclear weapons doesn't come from nation-states with ICBMs, it comes from terrorists smuggling them into New York Harbor.
Click to expand...

You mean that it would be more cost effective to rebuild New York City and repopulate it with clones of the people murdered in a ten megaton blast than to invest in the technology needed to protect the people in the first place.

you're also neglecting the fact that irrational nations like North Korea and Iran are working their asses off to develop viable weapons delivery systems for the nuclear weapons they are building.

Then there's the very good chance of a new caliphate arising in the Midde East.

So, you don't want the nation to drill it's own oil domestically and you don't want the nation to develop the defenses against nuclear missiles. What should the United States do when the Middle East plays "Jimmy Carter Reprise" and shuts down the oil, and decides that this would be a good time to test their new rockets out?

When the flames are lit under the bomb, it's too late to start researching how to shoot it down.

Unfortunately for whatever your desires are, and Obama's, the United States has developed an amazingly functional 747-based laser system for shooting down incoming presents, and it's also developing other systems as well, becuase the first priorty of the Constitution is the defense of the nation, not denial.
 
Kandahar said:
We need to do a cost/benefit analysis of these sort of things.
Click to expand...

Okay, let's.

Cost of replacing New York City: Ten trillion dollars.

Cost of replacing New York City's population: Priceless.

Cost of protecting New York from ICBMs: $100 billion give or take some.

Chances of terrorists (or, "freedom fighters" for you, since you like to pretend that the word "terrorist" is only applied to people we don't like. The Mayor won't like people who attack New York with atom bombs, but the Mayor isn't willing to presume for your position) stealing or being given a nuclear missile to play with is greater than zero.

Chances of an upstart nation with new toys being willing to attack a prostrate US? Good.
 
Mayor Snorkum said:
You mean that it would be more cost effective to rebuild New York City and repopulate it with clones of the people murdered in a ten megaton blast than to invest in the technology needed to protect the people in the first place.
Click to expand...

Nope, I'm saying that it would be more cost-effective to take all that money we're spending on a retarded missile defense system, and instead increase port security, combat nuclear proliferation, and improve intelligence gathering so that we aren't the victims of a nuclear terrorist attack.

Mayor Snorkum said:
you're also neglecting the fact that irrational nations like North Korea and Iran are working their asses off to develop viable weapons delivery systems for the nuclear weapons they are building.
Click to expand...

It doesn't change the fact that they aren't going to strike the United States with nuclear weapons. With both of those countries (as well as Pakistan), the greatest nuclear threat comes from the possibility of nukes ending up in the hands of terrorists as a result of political instability.

Mayor Snorkum said:
Then there's the very good chance of a new caliphate arising in the Midde East.
Click to expand...

:roll:

Mayor Snorkum said:
So, you don't want the nation to drill it's own oil domestically
Click to expand...

I'm not sure where I said that, but umm, OK...

Mayor Snorkum said:
What should the United States do when the Middle East plays "Jimmy Carter Reprise" and shuts down the oil, and decides that this would be a good time to test their new rockets out?
Click to expand...

What in the **** does a missile defense shield have to do with the Middle East shutting down oil? Are you just throwing out random cliches you heard on television in the last 30 minutes, and hoping that some of them are somehow relevant to the subject at hand?

Mayor Snorkum said:
When the flames are lit under the bomb, it's too late to start researching how to shoot it down.

Unfortunately for whatever your desires are, and Obama's, the United States has developed an amazingly functional 747-based laser system for shooting down incoming presents, and it's also developing other systems as well, becuase the first priorty of the Constitution is the defense of the nation, not denial.
Click to expand...

The defense of the nation would be better served by focusing on things that are actually threats.
 
Last edited:
TheDemSocialist said:
Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, our cultural diversity, democracy, our republic, our land, the idea that we will always have a say in this country, our constitution... Do you seriously want me to say more?
Click to expand...

Socialism threatens all that.

The "Progressives" under Wilson jailed Eugene Deb (a socialist out of favor with the empowered socialists) for daring to exercise his First Amendment freedoms in protest of the war the Progressive socialists insisted on dragging the United States into.

Deb lost his freedom.

The nation's constitution did not protect him, so that was lost.

His freedom of speech was denied.

As an ex felon, Deb lost his vote, ie, his right to have a say in the direction of the country.

Ergo, he lost his democracy.

It's not necessary to say any more.
 
Mayor Snorkum said:
Okay, let's.

Cost of replacing New York City: Ten trillion dollars.

Cost of replacing New York City's population: Priceless.

Cost of protecting New York from ICBMs: $100 billion give or take some.
Click to expand...

Close enough so far.

Mayor Snorkum said:
Chances of terrorists (or, "freedom fighters" for you, since you like to pretend that the word "terrorist" is only applied to people we don't like. The Mayor won't like people who attack New York with atom bombs, but the Mayor isn't willing to presume for your position) stealing or being given a nuclear missile to play with is greater than zero.
Click to expand...

So we should defend against THAT threat.

Mayor Snorkum said:
Chances of an upstart nation with new toys being willing to attack a prostrate US? Good.
Click to expand...

Why do you think the chance of "an upstart nation with new toys being willing to attack" the US is good? Because you saw a really supercool movie about it? :roll:
 
Kandahar said:
Nope, I'm saying that it would be more cost-effective to take all that money we're spending on a retarded missile defense system, and instead increase port security, combat nuclear proliferation, and improve intelligence gathering so that we aren't the victims of a nuclear terrorist attack.
Click to expand...

Funny, that.

It's been noted that the terrorists are not stupid, just barbaric.

They study us and strike our weaknesses. If we choose to select one mode of attack for defense and ignore the other, the enemy will choose the open door.

That arithmetic doesn't take a college diploma in double-speak to figure out.

It doesn't change the fact that they aren't going to strike the United States with nuclear weapons. With both of those countries (as well as Pakistan), the greatest nuclear threat comes from the possibility of nukes ending up in the hands of terrorists as a result of political instability.
Click to expand...

Did Allah write you a telegram promising you that his prophets won't attack the United States with the holy cleansing fire of fusing hydrogen? You stated a fact, what's your basis?
 
Mayor Snorkum said:
Funny, that.

It's been noted that the terrorists are not stupid, just barbaric.

They study us and strike our weaknesses. If we choose to select one mode of attack for defense and ignore the other, the enemy will choose the open door.

That arithmetic doesn't take a college diploma in double-speak to figure out.
Click to expand...

Where is a ragtag group of terrorists going to get an ICBM, much less the capability and knowhow to actually target it and fire it?

Mayor Snorkum said:
Did Allah write you a telegram promising you that his prophets won't attack the United States with the holy cleansing fire of fusing hydrogen? You stated a fact, what's your basis?
Click to expand...

Yes. Allah telegrammed me. Exactly correct.
Aaaaaand another moron goes on my ignore list.
 
Last edited:
TheDemSocialist said:
Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, our cultural diversity, democracy, our republic, our land, the idea that we will always have a say in this country, our constitution... Do you seriously want me to say more?
Click to expand...

Nope, that is good enough for me. I'll never ask you again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom