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Judge dismisses one of three lawsuits on Wisconsin law

They're against the payscale, benefits and tenure that teachers unions are able to negotiate at the bargaining table thanks to their Democratic patrons. This is more about taxpayers being unable to afford these payscales and benefits than it is about teachers 'unions themselves.

Oh really? Is that why Walker still went through and sought to break the unions even after they conceded the financial aspects of the bill? Nope, not gonna buy it. This is just a war on unions meant to shift blame off of Wall Street.
 
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Oh really? Is that why Walker still went through and sought to break the unions even after they conceded the financial aspects of the bill? Nope, not gonna buy it. This is just a war on unions meant to shift blame off of Wall Street.

They did not concede anything. They gave it lip service. In fact, Madison negotiated and signed contracts in emergency session while the Dems left the state -- with no concessions at all.
 
They did not concede anything. They gave it lip service. In fact, Madison negotiated and signed contracts in emergency session while the Dems left the state -- with no concessions at all.

They publicly and openly conceded.

Walker on the other hand pays his employees top dollar arguing that he needs to do so in order to get the best people while demanding cuts in pay for teachers and public employees. That is lip service and hypocrisy.
 
By the typical American standards they are socialist.

So what is the "typical American" according to CriticalThought? I bet it is based on opinion with no evidence at all.

I'm still waiting to hear how those countries eradicated teacher's unions and completely privatized their education.

Well since that had nothing to do with your comment or my reply you may be waiting a long time. Don't hold your breath.

As far as you not asking, go read the original graphic I posted in this thread. You are the only one who is being irrelevant.

I showed you what you asked for. You thought no one could answer it. The truth is anyone could, I just got to it first and it still stands as correct information based on fact.
 
They publicly and openly conceded. Walker on the other hand pays his employees top dollar arguing that he needs to do so in order to get the best people while demanding cuts in pay for teachers and public employees. That is lip service and hypocrisy.

They gave lip service. When given the opportunity to show good faith (Madison contracts), they epic failed. Paying teachers more does NOT make them better teachers. You must have missed that class.
 
So what is the "typical American" according to CriticalThought? I bet it is based on opinion with no evidence at all.

Just watch any tea party rally video.

I showed you what you asked for. You thought no one could answer it. The truth is anyone could, I just got to it first and it still stands as correct information based on fact.

Oh come on. I knew anyone could answer it. I just wanted you to post it so I could prove a point.
 
They gave lip service. When given the opportunity to show good faith (Madison contracts), they epic failed. Paying teachers more does NOT make them better teachers. You must have missed that class.

And yet Walker argues that he has to pay people more in order to get the best people? I'm confused, does paying people more get you the best people or have no effect at all? By the standard in Wisconsin, the difference of whether paying more has any effect seems to be whether or not you are working for Walker.

I have no idea what you are talking about "Madison contracts". Can you provide some news story or anything to back up your claims?
 
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And yet Walker argues that he has to pay people more in order to get the best people? I'm confused, does paying people more get you the best people or have no effect at all? By the standard in Wisconsin, the difference of whether paying more has any effect seems to be whether or not you are working for Walker.

Making entry-level salaries more than competitive attracts better people. Paying a 20-year veteran teacher 20% more this year (hyperbolic example) doesn't change her teaching skills one itsy-bitsy bit.

Madison Held Emergency Sessions to Pass All Union Contracts on Feb. 17

On February 17, Madison Mayor Dave Ciezlewicz and the Madison Common Council voted to approve the extension of twelve labor contracts through 2012 in an emergency session. The process of approving labor contracts often takes days or weeks, but both Mayor Ceizlewicz and the Common Council agreed on the importance ensuring that “all employees can continue to receive current pension and health benefits for the next two years.” Following the vote to approve labor contracts, the Common Council marched to the Overture Center with representatives of the twelve unions to show “solidarity.”
http://mediatrackers.org/2011/03/ma...ssions-to-pass-all-union-contracts-on-feb-17/
 
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Wow, a list of countries, most of which you would consider socialist by American standards. Exactly how many of those countries don't have teachers unions?

You aren't making a very good case here.

Can't speak for the European countries, but I am pretty sure South Korea, Japan and I know for sure Taiwan (which is NOT on this list, but also exceeds U.S. achievement in reading, math, and science) do NOT have strong teacher's unions. Then again, kids in the three countries spend inordinate amounts of time in school in addition to several hours a day in cram schools...
 
Just watch any tea party rally video.

So now the Tea Party represents all of the US? Hmmm. Then I have no idea how President Obama got elected?

Oh come on. I knew anyone could answer it. I just wanted you to post it so I could prove a point.

How did you know I was going to post it? Are you displaying your psychic ability's again? ;)
 
Can't speak for the European countries, but I am pretty sure South Korea, Japan and I know for sure Taiwan (which is NOT on this list, but also exceeds U.S. achievement in reading, math, and science) do NOT have strong teacher's unions. Then again, kids in the three countries spend inordinate amounts of time in school in addition to several hours a day in cram schools...

Actually Taiwan does not rank higher in reading than the US. It ranks higher in math. The list I posted is only reading.
 
In a House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) asked Gov. Scott Walker (R-WI) a couple of questions about his recent union-busting tactics.

One was, how much money would your proposal that would require unions to hold annual votes to continue representing their own members save for your state budget? After a little rhetoric meant to misdirect, Kucinich interrupted to again ask how much money would it save his state? Walker answered "It doesn't save any". Nonfiscal union-busting tactic.

Another question was about how much money the plan to prohibit payroll deduction of union member dues save the state budget? After aother round of political double-speak from Walker in which he wouldn't answer the question, Kucinich presented a document from the the Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau, the state’s equivalent of the Congressional Budget Office. The document from the LFB concluded that Walker’s measures were nonfiscal, meaning it had no effect on the state budget. Nonfiscal union-busting tactic.


 
I think the majority of people aren't against teacher unions. They're against the payscale, benefits and tenure that teachers unions are able to negotiate at the bargaining table thanks to their Democratic patrons. This is more about taxpayers being unable to afford these payscales and benefits than it is about teachers 'unions themselves.

I think you're part right, but the hate does seem to go a little beyond that. The rethoric concerning teachers as compared to tax hikes for those poor, poor wealthy corporations has been stark. It seems wealthy folk can do what's best for their bottom line, often at our expense, but teachers, damn them, are evil for even considering worrying about their lives and future.

Yes, there is a bit of sarcasim there. :coffeepap
 
I think you're part right, but the hate does seem to go a little beyond that. The rethoric concerning teachers as compared to tax hikes for those poor, poor wealthy corporations has been stark. It seems wealthy folk can do what's best for their bottom line, often at our expense, but teachers, damn them, are evil for even considering worrying about their lives and future.

Yes, there is a bit of sarcasim there. :coffeepap

I agree with you, Boo. I've always wanted to call someone Boo. ;) We've got to straighten out our corporate income tax structure. No question. That GE paid no corporate income tax is just simply ludircous. But the difference is that our bottom lines aren't effected by those corporate tax structures in a direct and easily comparable way. These are really two different issues: the power of teachers' unions; corporate tax structures. Both need fixing. It's easier for us to see how the power of teachers' unions effect us - at least in Illinois where our schools are funded by property taxes.
 
Can't speak for the European countries, but I am pretty sure South Korea, Japan and I know for sure Taiwan (which is NOT on this list, but also exceeds U.S. achievement in reading, math, and science) do NOT have strong teacher's unions. Then again, kids in the three countries spend inordinate amounts of time in school in addition to several hours a day in cram schools...

You realize two of those countries have astronomically high suicide rates among their youth, right?

Although, I would totally love to make the US education system a lot more like the Japanese.
 
I'm sorry, I'm still waiting for one of your buddies in this thread to explain why teachers contribute nothing to society and another to explain why practically socialist countries with extensive teacher unions have better education systems than us. I can totally tell that I am the one with crappy logic. :roll:

We keep throwing good money after bad ideas. The problem with our education system is systemic, and can be resolved with innovation, competition and a focus on education not social feel good bull****.
 
The problem with our education system is systemic, and can be resolved with innovation, competition and a focus on education not social feel good bull****.

Nice vague rhetoric. Do you want to name any specifics or just throw out flashy action words to make it look like you have ideas?
 
Nice vague rhetoric. Do you want to name any specifics or just throw out flashy action words to make it look like you have ideas?

Do a search friend, I detailed exactly how I'd reform education. It starts with abolishing the Dept. of Education and privatizing the school system.
 
Do a search friend, I detailed exactly how I'd reform education. It starts with abolishing the Dept. of Education and privatizing the school system.

Could you name any country in the world that has a completely privatized education system that is better than the one we have now?
 
Actually Taiwan does not rank higher in reading than the US. It ranks higher in math. The list I posted is only reading.

You may be looking at a different list... The last list I saw (admittedly from two years ago) had Taiwan higher than the US on all three... not that this is relevant to the point I was making...
 
I agree with you, Boo. I've always wanted to call someone Boo. ;) We've got to straighten out our corporate income tax structure. No question. That GE paid no corporate income tax is just simply ludircous. But the difference is that our bottom lines aren't effected by those corporate tax structures in a direct and easily comparable way. These are really two different issues: the power of teachers' unions; corporate tax structures. Both need fixing. It's easier for us to see how the power of teachers' unions effect us - at least in Illinois where our schools are funded by property taxes.

My sister and her family live in Ill. Just south of Chicago. My understanding is that the state has far larger problems than education. But I haven't investigated too deeply.
 
Could you name any country in the world that has a completely privatized education system that is better than the one we have now?

Nice dodge, see you in the relevant thread or not at all.
 
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