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Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

There's so much stupidity in this thread I'm going to just keep out. I think my favorite part was the anger of the guy who hates Texas. It is so incredibly unAmaerican to hate your fellow countrymen. And I'm guessing you never been anywhere near the beautiful state of Texas. Or met some of the most friendly and hospitable and polite people in this country.
 
Mayor Snorkum said:
Right.

One has to PROVE one is a citizen.

Now that we have that straight, to be president one has to prove one is a NATURAL BORN citizen, and Arizona apparently did not already have a law stipulating that for applicants to the "President" slot on it's state-wide ballots.

Now it does.

So what's your problem with a state requiring the Constitution be obeyed, given that it's the states that control ballot access?
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Whhoo
I'm waiting on my my new prescription. I thought you said "no one has to prove one is a citizen" I was ready to let you have it.

My glasses won't be ready till at least Monday so I apologize in advance for any mistakes I make. I'm very sorry.

Coarse it wouldn't hurt everybody to make the font on all their posts larger, would it? Just for a few days.
 
Kandahar said:
Well, now we're talking about something different. You can be a natural-born citizen and not be born in the United States. If Arizona wanted to impose a requirement that all presidential candidates on the Arizona ballot were born in the United States, they'd probably run into some Equal Protection issues just for imposing that requirement.

But as for PROVING natural-born citizenship: If certain classes of people are generally less able to provide that proof than others (due to their age, race, income level, or place of birth), it constitutes an undue burden and violates the Equal Protection clause.
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No, any person born and registered according to the laws of the individual states can, without undue effort, demonstrate that his birth complied with those laws and that he is, in fact, "natural born" as the Constitution demands.

In the United State in the year 2011, not one person lawfully born here, regardless of age, race, anyotherbull****category, can get an official copy of his BC that would satisfy Arizona's law. There's no "undue burden" here, nor, since the law does not make any distinction among races, etc, is there any question this violates the Fourteenth Amendment.
 
Kandahar said:
That joint session of Congress is when the federal government validates the election as legitimate, and the President-Elect and VP-Elect as eligible to serve. If there are any objections to the results of the electoral college (such as "I object to the electors from Ohio choosing Barack Obama as president, on the grounds that he is not a natural-born citizen"), this is when they are dealt with. Congresspeople need to make a written objection, get it signed by one senator and one representative, and present it to the President of the Senate (the VPOTUS) during the joint session.

If a written objection is signed and presented by one senator and one representative, then it is read before the joint session and Congress will hear the arguments and vote on it. If they vote to uphold the electors, then they move on. If they vote to overturn the electors (which has never happened to my knowledge), then the case would most likely end up before the Supreme Court.

But in any case, the federal government most certainly DOES weigh in on whether or not a person is eligible to be president. They didn't do a "detailed records search to verify the natural born citizen requirement" because no one in Congress filed an objection to Obama's election on those grounds during the joint session.
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Yes.

As the Mayor said, the Congress counted votes.
 
danarhea said:
That's BS. My mother never accepted American citizenship (she was a British Jew), but I am definitely a 100 percent, homegrown natural born American. I am glad I don't know you in real life, because, if I did, I would knock your nose off if you called me anything else.

Finally, I have been at Debate Politics for almost 6 years. Congratulations. You are the very first person to go on my ignore list. All I have seen you post since you got here is conspiracy lunacy, and I have had enough of it.
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The issue in Obama's case is that his mother was very young when she spawned him. And the laws of the time were that she wasn't old enough to confer citizenship on Obama if, in fact, he was born in Kenya. You can search the birther pages for a detailed explanation, but the law of the time was plain regarding that.

Other than that, your response to the details presented in the example given seem accurate enough. The argument against Obama weren't about any dual citizenship nonsense (which the US should reject and require all citizens to make the choice to be either in, or out), but about his alleged place of birth.
 
Mayor Snorkum said:
The issue in Obama's case is that his mother was very young when she spawned him. And the laws of the time were that she wasn't old enough to confer citizenship on Obama if, in fact, he was born in Kenya. You can search the birther pages for a detailed explanation, but the law of the time was plain regarding that.

Other than that, your response to the details presented in the example given seem accurate enough. The argument against Obama weren't about any dual citizenship nonsense (which the US should reject and require all citizens to make the choice to be either in, or out), but about his alleged place of birth.
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By a few months, however, since he was born in Hawaii, it is a moot point...

As for the in or out thing, I believe the Supreme Court has already ruled on that...
 
VETOED

Good job AZ Gov.. there is hope for your state yet...
 
*Breaking News* - Mainstream Media Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther

*Breaking News* - Mainstream Media Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill
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Uh-uh ....

Arizona governor vetoes birther, campus gun bills

(Reuters) - Arizona's Republican Governor Jan Brewer on Monday vetoed two controversial bills, one mandating proof of U.S. citizenship to run for president, the other allowing guns on college campuses, in a clear setback for conservatives who control the state legislature.



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Birfers lose again.​
 
Re: *Breaking News* - Mainstream Media Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Bir

Don't worry, Louisiana already has a bill identical to this in the works and jindal has already said he would sign it into law.
 
Re: *Breaking News* - Mainstream Media Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Bir

dontworrybehappy said:
Don't worry, Louisiana already has a bill identical to this in the works and jindal has already said he would sign it into law.
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So, Libertarians are now siding with Birthers... Good to know.
 
Re: *Breaking News* - Mainstream Media Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Bir

hazlnut said:
So, Libertarians are now siding with Birthers... Good to know.
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What's wrong with making sure an individual is qualified to be president? If actually wanting someone who is qualified to be president to take the office is a "birther" then I am ONE DAMN PROUD BIRTHER. :2wave:

Anybody OPPOSING this is questionable IMHO.
 
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Re: *Breaking News* - Mainstream Media Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Bir

dontworrybehappy said:
What's wrong with making sure an individual is qualified to be president?

Anybody OPPOSING this is questionable IMHO.
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Nothing, but that's already done. Not accepting the facts, asking for more of one person than another, making an issue where there isn't one, well, that's another story altogether. :coffeepap
 
Re: *Breaking News* - Mainstream Media Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Bir

dontworrybehappy said:
What's wrong with making sure an individual is qualified to be president? If actually wanting someone who is qualified to be president to take the office is a "birther" then I am ONE DAMN PROUD BIRTHER. :2wave:

Anybody OPPOSING this is questionable IMHO.
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Well, to me the question is, why is this suddenly an issue? Nobody needed to see if Ronald Reagan was a citizen? Or Bill Clinton for that matter?

Like so many things, Conservatives claim that it's "not about Obama." Yet suddenly, the Tea Party pops up to protest deficit spending which has been going on for the last 30 years (by both parties). They just realized now that it's out of control? Glenn Beck had a "non-political" rally to "restore America." America didn't need restoring 5 years ago? Now it's "so important" to see the President's birth certificate? Hell, I never saw Richard Nixon's...hmmm.
 
Re: *Breaking News* - Mainstream Media Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Bir

rocket88 said:
Well, to me the question is, why is this suddenly an issue? Nobody needed to see if Ronald Reagan was a citizen? Or Bill Clinton for that matter?

Like so many things, Conservatives claim that it's "not about Obama." Yet suddenly, the Tea Party pops up to protest deficit spending which has been going on for the last 30 years (by both parties). They just realized now that it's out of control? Glenn Beck had a "non-political" rally to "restore America." America didn't need restoring 5 years ago? Now it's "so important" to see the President's birth certificate? Hell, I never saw Richard Nixon's...hmmm.
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I agree that it begs the question. I don't know that we can say with certainty yet, but it clearly raises the question. Why is more asked of Obama than anyone else, and why do some simply refuse to accept the clear evidence?
 
Re: *Breaking News* - Mainstream Media Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Bir

dontworrybehappy said:
What's wrong with making sure an individual is qualified to be president? If actually wanting someone who is qualified to be president to take the office is a "birther" then I am ONE DAMN PROUD BIRTHER. :2wave:

Anybody OPPOSING this is questionable IMHO.
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There would be nothing wrong with it if states couldn't decide what constitutes as "evidence" for a federal requirement. If not for the integrity and level-headness of Arizona's governor, a person born in another country could provide a certificate of baptism and circumcision and still be on the Arizona ballot, but someone like Obama, who was born in America and shows his short form birth certificate, would not.
 
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Re: *Breaking News* - Mainstream Media Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Bir

Anyone born in the USA would have no problems with the requirements set forth in any of these bills. I have to produce a birth certificate, as well as other documentation etc just to get a drivers license. At LEAST that level of assurance should be had by our president.

Even Bill O'Rielly, who has long said he believes Obama was born in the USA, admitted that he has not shown any proof. I agree. That man is level headed by all means, knocking Bush and praising Obama all the time. If he has nothing to hide, why spend 2 million dollars hiding the one document that would put all this to a close?

To say "He's smart to hide it, as he would be playing into the birthers hands to show it" is an extremely idiotic thing to say. That's like saying that a defendant, who produces proof of their innocence, is simply playing into the hands of the prosecutor.

His job is to show he is a citizen. He has not done that. He is fueling the flames himself. Produce the real deal and this will fade away. You don't see polls showing half the nation believes Bush had something to do with 9-11, but you do see polls in that huge chunks of the country don't believe he was born in the USA. States are passing laws to ensure this **** doesn't happen again.

"Truthers" are a far left fringe group, "birthers" constitute a measurable number in society. Labeling them makes the left feel good, but it's real. The man needs to produce real proof. His own grandmother said he was born in Kenya. :confused:
 
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Re: *Breaking News* - Mainstream Media Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Bir

dontworrybehappy said:
Anyone born in the USA would have no problems with the requirements set forth in any of these bills. I have to produce a birth certificate, as well as other documentation etc just to get a drivers license. At LEAST that level of assurance should be had by our president.
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I don't remember having to show my birth certificate when I got my DL. I'm just saying. That's fine to have to show proof, but why did it suddenly become an issue with Obama? Did Bush show his Birth Certificate to everyone?

Even Bill O'Rielly, who has long said he believes Obama was born in the USA, admitted that he has not shown any proof. I agree. That man is level headed by all means, knocking Bush and praising Obama all the time. If he has nothing to hide, why spend 2 million dollars hiding the one document that would put all this to a close?
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O'Reilly has been remarkably level-headed about this. Even he said it seems like a pretty unlikely conspiracy.

To say "He's smart to hide it, as he would be playing into the birthers hands to show it" is an extremely idiotic thing to say. That's like saying that a defendant, who produces proof of their innocence, is simply playing into the hands of the prosecutor.
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Except that in a criminal court, it is the job of the prosecutor to prove the guilt of the defendant. It's not the job of the defendant to prove his innocence, he is innocent until proven guilty. The only evidence shown so far is the short form Certificate, which says he was born in Hawaii. That's it. No other evidence so far. In a criminal court, that's a slam dunk for the defense when the prosecution shows no evidence whatsoever.

His job is to show he is a citizen. He has not done that. He is fueling the flames himself. Produce the real deal and this will fade away. You don't see polls showing half the nation believes Bush had something to do with 9-11, but you do see polls in that huge chunks of the country don't believe he was born in the USA. States are passing laws to ensure this **** doesn't happen again.
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He produced the real deal. A person born in Hawaii who goes back and asks for a copy of their birth certificate gets exactly what he has produced. It has been attested as genuine by officials in Hawaii of both parties. Do you really believe that the Republican party of Hawaii is in on this?

"Truthers" are a far left fringe group, "birthers" constitute a measurable number in society. Labeling them makes the left feel good, but it's real. The man needs to produce real proof. His own grandmother said he was born in Kenya. :confused:
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Truthers and birthers both show a remarkable ability to maintain their beliefs in the face of evidence. Especially when the only evidence they have is conjecture.
 
Re: *Breaking News* - Mainstream Media Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Bir

dontworrybehappy said:
Anyone born in the USA would have no problems with the requirements set forth in any of these bills. I have to produce a birth certificate, as well as other documentation etc just to get a drivers license. At LEAST that level of assurance should be had by our president.
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You have to provide exactly what Obama has provided already. No new law changes what i salready required and done.
 
Re: *Breaking News* - Mainstream Media Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Bir

How's that "birther bill" coming along? :lamo

Now we'll see if this really was only about Obama, as many on the left claimed it was. If it wasn't just about Obama, they will pass a new bill for the governor to sign. If they let the matter drop in light of Obama releasing his long form certificate, then the left was right (pun intended), and this was merely an attempt by the right to get Obama to release his long form.
 
Apuzo said:
Sorry but the problem is that Obama's father was not a citizen. If Obama was born in the Lincoln bedroom he wouldn't be a natural born citizen and eligible for Article 2 Section 1. He was born a dual British Citizen. That was never the intent of the founders at the adoption of our constitution especially after we just finished a war with England. There was no way they were going to take a chance for a future president to be born with a allegiance to another nation.
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How could he possibly be "dual British" if his mother was American?
 
BDBoop said:
How could he possibly be "dual British" if his mother was American?
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I'm not so sure you're gonna get an answer from Apuzo. He doesn't seem to post on these fora anymore since Obama released his long form certificate.
 
Oh! Well, shoot. I really am quizzical.
 
ludahai said:
Becuase of his father??? Just perhaps??? Fathers also pass on citizenship, you know...
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I'm laughing too hard here. You can't be "dual British". That means you're British, period.
 
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