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Obama: I'll cut $4 trillion

VanceMack said:
This 'far righter' supports social spending at the state level, increased taxes with mandated spending cuts to pay down the debt, decreased spending on the military, and individual rights, including the right to abortion. Nice try, Mr 'Moderate'... :lamo:lamo:lamo
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Oh, my, the horrow of it all!! You evil rightwinger!No wonder the country is going to hell in a handbasket with thought s like that, ROFLMAO! States' rights? How dare you put responsibility back at the state level! We all know that Federal Bureaucrats in D.C. know what is best for the state and local communities.
 
Conservative said:
Oh, my, the horrow of it all!! You evil rightwinger!No wonder the country is going to hell in a handbasket with thought s like that, ROFLMAO! States' rights? How dare you put responsibility back at the state level! We all know that Federal Bureaucrats in D.C. know what is best for the state and local communities.
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Thats the funny part...I make no bones about my right wing status...Im VERY conservative...Im an extremist. I believe in personal and government fiscal accountability. I believe most elected democrats exist by exploiting workers...providing handout programs that do just enough to keep poor people poor and then pull back that support if anyone dares to begin to do well on their own. I support others rights...even rights I disagree with. Im as repulsed by the out of control republican spending as I am about the democrat spending. I'm disgusted by whiny bitches that spend the bulk of their life rolling on their back and pee on themselves complaining about what others have achieved and place virtually no effort or attention to their own failings, and I dare to believe that most of those people COULD actually be successful if they just believed in themselves and not the message that they cant...and its ok...its not their fault...and government should force rich successful people to take care of them. Im a very bad bad man.
 
TurtleDude said:
Your worship of obama is touching but Obama's rant yesterday was nothing more than a silly campaign speech long on bashing Bush and short on courage. It was also filled with lies such as his crap from his anus claiming that the middle class doesn't benefit from certain "loopholes" (Like the Mortgage deduction)
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4 empty talking points from Fox News + 1 unoriginal Strawman. IMO you basically just copy/pasted something you heard on right-wing media, however have no real understanding of the subject matter. Prove me wrong.

Can you back anything up with a deeper analysis--be more specific, show us you really understood what the President said. Show the 'bashing Bush' language and explain why it was not a fair criticism of policy.

Give us example of "lies" -- please include links to fact checks or evidence.

Your vague and meaningless talking point posts continue to back up what I believe to be the truth about you.
 
hazlnut said:
4 empty talking points from Fox News + 1 unoriginal Strawman. IMO you basically just copy/pasted something you heard on right-wing media, however have no real understanding of the subject matter. Prove me wrong.

Can you back anything up with a deeper analysis--be more specific, show us you really understood what the President said. Show the 'bashing Bush' language and explain why it was not a fair criticism of policy.

Give us example of "lies" -- please include links to fact checks or evidence.

Your vague and meaningless talking point posts continue to back up what I believe to be the truth about you.
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wow... it's like you're channeling yourself, to bash yourself.... impressive. :rofl:
 
VanceMack said:
Thats the funny part...I make no bones about my right wing status...Im VERY conservative...Im an extremist. I believe in personal and government fiscal accountability. I believe most elected democrats exist by exploiting workers...providing handout programs that do just enough to keep poor people poor and then pull back that support if anyone dares to begin to do well on their own. I support others rights...even rights I disagree with. Im as repulsed by the out of control republican spending as I am about the democrat spending. I'm disgusted by whiny bitches that spend the bulk of their life rolling on their back and pee on themselves complaining about what others have achieved and place virtually no effort or attention to their own failings, and I dare to believe that most of those people COULD actually be successful if they just believed in themselves and not the message that they cant...and its ok...its not their fault...and government should force rich successful people to take care of them. Im a very bad bad man.
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What really scares me is that it seems that many of those spouting the big central govt. rhetoric here are young, inexperienced and being spoon fed by someone that big govt. is responsible for individual responsibility issues. Hopefully that is not the education system today but I am afraid it is. It is quite scary when 47% of the people in this country don't pay any federal income taxes meaning that 53% fund the Federal Govt. Think those not paying any Federal Income taxes have any problem raising taxes on the other 53% that do? The best way to create permanent power is to give people what they need and thus keep them dependent. Dependent people are growing in numbers thanks to Democrat social policy. The Obama brainwashing has convinced people that tax cuts are an expense to the govt. when tax cuts actually take away govt. power.
 
VanceMack said:
Thats the funny part...I make no bones about my right wing status...Im VERY conservative...Im an extremist. I believe in personal and government fiscal accountability. I believe most elected democrats exist by exploiting workers...providing handout programs that do just enough to keep poor people poor and then pull back that support if anyone dares to begin to do well on their own. I support others rights...even rights I disagree with. Im as repulsed by the out of control republican spending as I am about the democrat spending. I'm disgusted by whiny bitches that spend the bulk of their life rolling on their back and pee on themselves complaining about what others have achieved and place virtually no effort or attention to their own failings, and I dare to believe that most of those people COULD actually be successful if they just believed in themselves and not the message that they cant...and its ok...its not their fault...and government should force rich successful people to take care of them. Im a very bad bad man.
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I'm with you, brother. Can I get an Amen......
(note, that was NOT sarcasm)
 
Conservative said:
What really scares me is that it seems that many of those spouting the big central govt. rhetoric here are young, inexperienced and being spoon fed by someone that big govt. is responsible for individual responsibility issues. Hopefully that is not the education system today but I am afraid it is. It is quite scary when 47% of the people in this country don't pay any federal income taxes meaning that 53% fund the Federal Govt. Think those not paying any Federal Income taxes have any problem raising taxes on the other 53% that do? The best way to create permanent power is to give people what they need and thus keep them dependent. Dependent people are growing in numbers thanks to Democrat social policy. The Obama brainwashing has convinced people that tax cuts are an expense to the govt. when tax cuts actually take away govt. power.
Click to expand...

i suspected that if i stayed around this forum long enough i might finally find a point with which you and i agree
it happened
tax cuts do take away government power

without adequate revenues the government would not be able to defend our nation
without adequate revenues the government would not be able to offer assistance to those who are without the ability to care for themselves
without adequate revenues the government would be unable to educate our next generation to assure we remain globally competitive
without adequate revenues the government government would be unable to install, maintain and replace critical infrastructure essential to the economic life of our nation

what seems lost on those in the reich wing is that to once again realize a revenue surplus would be a good thing, so that we could show the world our economic house is in order and thus preserve the integrity of the US dollar. and this is vitally important. no one on these boards was around when the dollar was not the dominant international currency. few seem to have an appreciation for the massive advantage that currency domination gives our nation. our present economic strife will be nothing compared to what we will go thru if confidence in the dollar is lost. that $100 bill we print for a few pennies yields a huge equity - and a huge international economic advantage ... an advantage which will be forever lost if the profligate spending of the democrats AND republicans does not come to an end. that inappropriate spending includes the giving of tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires at a time when we have to borrow money from other nations to operate our government's essential functions
 
today:

President Barack Obama anchored his State of the Union address with a call for increasing investments in areas such as education, infrastructure and innovation — targeted spending he said would help create jobs and strengthen the country while the administration also tackled ballooning budget deficits.

He spoke in epic terms as he described America’s challenge to “win the future” after a period of economic turmoil.

“This is our generation’s Sputnik moment,” Obama said in January. “We know what it takes to compete for the jobs and industries of our time. We need to outinnovate, outeducate and outbuild the rest of the world.”

But in recent weeks, Republicans have shifted the conversation in an entirely different direction. Instead of talking about small increases to select programs, Washington is preoccupied with preserving existing programs from cuts at every turn.

As Obama celebrated the budget compromise he struck with Republicans, the soaring Sputnik rhetoric had vanished. Instead, he emphasized programs that Democrats had “protected” from GOP cuts.

“Beginning to live within our means is the only way to protect those investments that will help America compete for new jobs,” Obama said last week. “We protected the investments we need to win the future.”
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President Obama's Sputnik moment nose-dives - Abby Phillip - POLITICO.com

the slasher's sadsack sotu was only last january

america has never seen a chief exec routinely drop his stated agenda, as put forth in his yearly address, so regularly and quickly

in 2010, before barack hussein became the slash, his sotu priorities included his bank tax, his spending freeze and, of all things, his debt commission whose recommendations he still appears not to have read

within days, he'd dumped em all

he has the attention span of a teen

this year, it was all wtf, win the future---what became of that

it's all in the same dustbin with his 2012 budget proposal published in february

which beats 2011's, never written or submitted by the party still in power

does he really believe we weren't watching

the point is---the slasher's recent class warfare and hate the rich rhetoric will be dropped as fast as the bank tax

since he can't put up, ie, since harry won't be able to hustle anything hard or real, the slash will soon be forced to shut up

and so here we are, just where we were before the slash's pusillanimous politicizing of our planetary problems

green energy, infrastructure, obamacare and hate your neighbor

leadership, anyone?
 
justabubba;1059412232]i suspected that if i stayed around this forum long enough i might finally find a point with which you and i agree
it happened
tax cuts do take away government power
Click to expand...

Right, it gives people more money so they don't need that so called govt. "help."

without adequate revenues the government would not be able to defend our nation
Click to expand...

Right, the current budget is 3.7 trillion dollars and defense is 700 billion. Current tax revenue are more than enough to cover defense even with the tax cuts. Where do you get your information?


without adequate revenues the government would not be able to offer assistance to those who are without the ability to care for themselves
Click to expand...

That isn't the Federal Government's role. that is the state, local, and charities responsibility. Why do we have independent states? What did our Founders believe when they said, PROMOTE domestic welfare?


without adequate revenues the government would be unable to educate our next generation to assure we remain globally competitive
Click to expand...

Now I am getting really scared? Education is a state and local responsibility controlled by the people, not the politicians in D.C. Where is Federal Responsibility for education listed in the Constitution? you have been brainwashed. What do you pay state and local taxes for?

without adequate revenues the government government would be unable to install, maintain and replace critical infrastructure essential to the economic life of our nation
Click to expand...

Every time you drive your car and fill up with gasoline you pay excise taxes on gasoline, that is to fund the roads and infrastructure. You really need to get better educated about the role of the Federal and State Governments as well as where your tax dollars go.

what seems lost on those in the reich wing is that to once again realize a revenue surplus would be a good thing, so that we could show the world our economic house is in order and thus preserve the integrity of the US dollar. and this is vitally important. no one on these boards was around when the dollar was not the dominant international currency. few seem to have an appreciation for the massive advantage that currency domination gives our nation. our present economic strife will be nothing compared to what we will go thru if confidence in the dollar is lost. that $100 bill we print for a few pennies yields a huge equity - and a huge international economic advantage ... an advantage which will be forever lost if the profligate spending of the democrats AND republicans does not come to an end. that inappropriate spending includes the giving of tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires at a time when we have to borrow money from other nations to operate our government's essential functions
Click to expand...

Welcome to the European Socialist model that has destroyed the economies and currency of Europe. It isn't the Federal Government's role to do what you suggest in your post. Again, the govt. allowing people to keep more of what they earn isn't giving them anything. The brainwashing here is scary. We borrow money because the Federal Govt spends too much on issues that isn't their responsibility. You are exactly the kind of person I have been talking about, someone very naive when it comes to Federal Responsibility.
 
Conservative said:
Every time you drive your car and fill up with gasoline you pay excise taxes on gasoline, that is to fund the roads and infrastructure. You really need to get better educated about the role of the Federal and State Governments as well as where your tax dollars go.
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And have you driven recently? Roads and infrastructure aren't exactly in good shape. At least not here, there's major city streets that are down to the cobblestones in Minneapolis. I'm not joking, at 42nd St. and Cedar Ave you can see the old streetcar tracks. We're off-roading in the middle of a major American city.
 
rocket88 said:
And have you driven recently? Roads and infrastructure aren't exactly in good shape. At least not here, there's major city streets that are down to the cobblestones in Minneapolis. I'm not joking, at 42nd St. and Cedar Ave you can see the old streetcar tracks. We're off-roading in the middle of a major American city.
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That isn't a revenue problem that is a spending problem, Excise taxes like SS have been put on budget and have been spent as part of total govt. spending. Neither are spending as intended and that is the point
 
Conservative said:
That isn't a revenue problem that is a spending problem, Excise taxes like SS have been put on budget and have been spent as part of total govt. spending. Neither are spending as intended and that is the point
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I know, I'm just sick of blowing out my car's suspension every time I drive the kids to school.
 
rocket88 said:
I know, I'm just sick of blowing out my car's suspension every time I drive the kids to school.
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Don't blame you but raising taxes isn't the answer, spending the dollars as they were intended is. Too many people don't seem to understand that both SS and Excise taxes are put on budget and have been spent on everything other than SS and roads. Politicians continue to lie to the people and some keep "eating" those lies up. Just read the posts here, "tax cuts destroy roads, destroy seniors, starve kids, pollute the air" all bs as spending the money intended for those programs on other issues destroys those issues.
 
rocket88 said:
And have you driven recently?
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yes

Oil Jumps 2% in a Day - Bloomberg

gold, oil soar as inflation fears mount

Oil Rises to 30-Month High - Bloomberg

Oil climbs to highest since 2008 - Yahoo! Finance

Two-thirds of oil and gas leases in Gulf inactive - Yahoo! News

Economist warns of double dip recession if oil hits $140

Post Carbon - Obama administration reimposes offshore oil drilling ban

Obama bans eastern Gulf drilling for 7 years - CNN

Judge rules against White House on drilling ban | Reuters

Judge blocks deepwater drilling ban; Obama to appeal | McClatchy

Obama Will Appeal Judge's Ruling Against Drilling Moratorium

Bill Clinton: Drilling delays 'ridiculous' - Darren Goode - POLITICO.com

Food and gas prices on the rise

Gas Prices Show 7th Consecutive Weekly Increase, but It's Not Just About the Middle East - ABC News

Oil's surge felt by drivers, fliers and shoppers - Yahoo! Finance

gasoline prices keep rising - Yahoo! News

March consumer sentiment lowest in over a year | Reuters

Gas prices up 33 cents in two weeks - CNN.com

AAA: gas nat'l avg $3.75

Gasoline up 100% under Obama - Washington Times

Obama says little short-term help for gas prices

what are the slash's solutions, beyond bans and lawsuits which even bill clinton calls ridiculous?

Roads and infrastructure aren't exactly in good shape.
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20019468-503544.html

leadership, anyone?
 
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i suspected that if i stayed around this forum long enough i might finally find a point with which you and i agree
it happened
tax cuts do take away government power
Click to expand...
Right, it gives people more money so they don't need that so called govt. "help."
if only you were correct. then we would not need government funding for a social safety net to assist those who are in no position to assist themselves. but the reality that you and those of your ilk prefer to ignore is that there are huge numbers of our people who need assistance thru no fault of their own. your kind would prefer that they go away, never to be seen so that you don't have to view their plight. but that is an unrealistic expectation. despite the fact that there is a genuine need for our society to care for the least among us - notice that Christian value - the reich wing makes no provision for their care. it's worse actually, they rail against the expenditures of taxpayer dollars to fund this genuine need. each one of them should be required to forfeit their wwjd bracelet

without adequate revenues the government would not be able to defend our nation
Right, the current budget is 3.7 trillion dollars and defense is 700 billion. Current tax revenue are more than enough to cover defense even with the tax cuts. Where do you get your information?
another area where there is a chasm between our views. your cohort has no problem spending a $Trillion of borrowed money and too too many young American lives to take out a two bit dictator (we formerly propped up) while simultaneously allowing our infrastructure, education and economy back home to decay. that war had nothing to do with self defense. which tells me that we allocate too much money for the military. here is an extra point question. how many military facilities does the USA maintain, both in the USA and abroad ... and why are those military facilities in foreign lands essential to our self defense?

without adequate revenues the government would not be able to offer assistance to those who are without the ability to care for themselves
That isn't the Federal Government's role. that is the state, local, and charities responsibility. Why do we have independent states? What did our Founders believe when they said, PROMOTE domestic welfare?
this one is too easy. if the states and local communities were addressing this problem then there would be nothing for the federal government to have to care for. unfortunately, that is not the reality. notice how we keep coming back to your kind refusing to acknowledge reality. the mascot of the GOP should actually be an ostrich

without adequate revenues the government would be unable to educate our next generation to assure we remain globally competitive
Now I am getting really scared?that is what republicans do best
Education is a state and local responsibility controlled by the people, not the politicians in D.C. Where is Federal Responsibility for education listed in the Constitution? you have been brainwashed. What do you pay state and local taxes for?
just as with providing for the least among us, the states and local communities have not fully addressed the educational needs of our nation, causing the federal government to also have a role. now, since the state and local governments pony up 89.2% of the total cost of elementary and secondary education, the participation by the federal sector is comparably small - but certainly present. notably, those federal dollars are not just provided by the department of education but also HHS (head start) and agriculture (lunch program). the administrative cost of the department of education is about 1-2%, meaning that at least 98 cents of each tax dollar goes into the local school systems. given the disparity of educational attainment because there is no centralized focus, there are some of us who believe that there is insufficient federal involvement in the education system, resulting in 30% of our society not graduating from high school. but then, you must be OK with that inadequacy and don't mind paying the subsequent costs of incarceration and government support required disproportionately by those with the least education. as utah's signature reads, if you think education is expensive, try ignorance

without adequate revenues the government government would be unable to install, maintain and replace critical infrastructure essential to the economic life of our nation
Every time you drive your car and fill up with gasoline you pay excise taxes on gasoline, that is to fund the roads and infrastructure. You really need to get better educated about the role of the Federal and State Governments as well as where your tax dollars go.
i missed the post where i insisted there was no excise tax. please point it out
if our infrastructure was sound and nothing more needed to be constructed or maintained then we would be able to acknowledge that the excise tax was sufficient to cover our nation's infrastructure costs. so, are you telling us that we need no more roads paved, or resurfaced, no more mass transit built and maintained, no more airports built or upgraded, no more ports enhanced to accommodate ever larger ships, no more waterways dredged? if so, then your position is sound. but if the reality is that all of those things continue to be needed but are not being done, then i will submit that the present excise tax is found insufficient to keep up

what seems lost on those in the reich wing is that to once again realize a revenue surplus would be a good thing, so that we could show the world our economic house is in order and thus preserve the integrity of the US dollar. and this is vitally important. no one on these boards was around when the dollar was not the dominant international currency. few seem to have an appreciation for the massive advantage that currency domination gives our nation. our present economic strife will be nothing compared to what we will go thru if confidence in the dollar is lost. that $100 bill we print for a few pennies yields a huge equity - and a huge international economic advantage ... an advantage which will be forever lost if the profligate spending of the democrats AND republicans does not come to an end. that inappropriate spending includes the giving of tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires at a time when we have to borrow money from other nations to operate our government's essential functions
Welcome to the European Socialist model that has destroyed the economies and currency of Europe.this had nothing to do with socialism. if you will notice, those countries with strong socialist practices are often found to be among the most desirable nations in the world in which to live. what allowed the US dollar to become dominant was our industry ... that and we were the only intact industrial power after WWII ... and significantly, until the regan era, our nation practiced sound fiscal policy
It isn't the Federal Government's role to do what you suggest in your post. you have yet to tell us why it is not government's role. defend your statement. please. i welcome the challenge
Again, the govt. allowing people to keep more of what they earn isn't giving them anything.i keep seeing this from those of you on the far right. that is like saying the utility company which receives your money as payment for an obligation you owe for its goods/services is taking your money
your tax bill - your tax payment to the government - is just another obligation you have incurred for living in this great nation. once that bill comes in and you pay it, then it has become the government's money legitimately. there is NO TAKING what is yours. you have every right to leave our shores and go elsewhere where you will no longer be subject to USA taxation. by continuing to reside in the USA by your own free will you are subjecting yourself to receiving a tax bill for government services/goods rendered. and let me offer my own opinion. that tax money you pay over to uncle sam is the best bargain you will ever enjoy. which is why i insist on responding to those who whine about it
The brainwashing here is scary.there you go again, exhibiting that republican trait of being scared of those things which should not be found fearful
We borrow money because the Federal Govt spends too much on issues that isn't their responsibility.
and this is where we have exhibited our vast differences of opinion. you think government should have an extremely limited role while i believe government provides an economy of scale which allows our society to provide those things that make living in our nation so wonderful
You are exactly the kind of person I have been talking about, someone very naive when it comes to Federal Responsibility.
i am many things, but i do not believe naive is among them. you know little about me other than what i have posted. my belief is your choose to refer to me as naive only because you are without the means to undermine my arguments. but again, i challenge you to prove me wrong. please. i welcome it
 
TurtleDude said:
a heavy progressive income tax and death tax are planks in the communist manifesto.

life is unfair but governments that try to punish the prosperous to make the ne'er do wells feel better are cancerous
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Income tax is not Communist at all. In fact, there are only 2 ways to fund the government:

1) By accumulating debt

AND

2) By raising taxes to pay for it

There are no other ways, so here is what we need to do - Decide on just what kinds of programs are going to be the Federal government's responsibility, and then collect taxes to pay for those programs. Some of these programs are going to require quite a bit of taxation. So what programs do we need, and what needs to be slashed or gotten rid of?

a) The Pentagon - By far, the largest chunk of the money we spend.

b) Medicare and Medicaid.

c) SNAP, formerly called food stamps.

d) Agricultural subsidies.

e) Bank bailouts.

f) Immigration.

g) Homeland Security.

These are just a few. Whatever we decide to keep we are either going to have to have taxes for those programs, raise the debt, or eliminate the programs. Those are the 3 choices. And whatever we keep, we are going to have to collect taxes for them, unless we want to go deeper into debt. We can't have our cake and eat it too. Paying taxes on programs that are good is the only responsible thing to do. There is nothing Communist about that. Once again, it is about being responsible.

NOTE: I like the flat tax system on purchases, also known as "Fair Tax", where food, mortgage/rent, medical expenses, and educational expenses are exempted. If a rich man wants a Roll-Royce, he will pay the tax for it. This system is more than fair, and we can eliminate the IRS in the process too, replacing it with a department headed by a Comptroller, which would collect national sales taxes. There would be absolutely no loopholes for the rich, and the poor would get a break, unless they decided they could afford to buy an expensive flat-screen TV. Also, illegal aliens who work under the radar, whose earnings are not reported to the IRS, would pay taxes they are not paying now (until they are caught). Finally, drug dealers and organized crime would be paying taxes that are now not reported (until they are caught). There would be no loopholes whatsoever. Even GE would end up paying its fair share instead of zero, which is what it paid this year.
 
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TurtleDude said:
a heavy progressive income tax and death tax are planks in the communist manifesto.

life is unfair but governments that try to punish the prosperous to make the ne'er do wells feel better are cancerous
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And explain how ending the tax break on those making 250k or more from 35% to 39% is a punishment. Explain how this would be a progressive tax when it would simply put the tax rate back to where it was in the '90's. What was Reagan's tax rates? If we go back to the rates in the '80's or '90's this would be a regressive tax rate, I guess.
 
TurtleDude said:
Your worship of obama is touching but Obama's rant yesterday was nothing more than a silly campaign speech long on bashing Bush and short on courage. It was also filled with lies such as his crap from his anus claiming that the middle class doesn't benefit from certain "loopholes" (Like the Mortgage deduction)
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I believe you are referring to this part of his speech:

Beyond that, the tax code is also loaded up with spending on things like itemized deductions. And while I agree with the goals of many of these deductions, from homeownership to charitable giving, we can’t ignore the fact that they provide millionaires an average tax break of $75,000 but do nothing for the typical middle-class family that doesn’t itemize. So my budget calls for limiting itemized deductions for the wealthiest 2 percent of Americans -- a reform that would reduce the deficit by $320 billion over 10 years.
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So, did he say that some middle class family's do not benefit from some itemization? No. He said the "typical" middle class family doesn't itemize at all, and so the itemization that the wealthy do would not benefit the average middle class family. The President did not lie here.
 
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