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Obama: I'll cut $4 trillion

This is the kind of partisan tripe that's not helping matters at all.

LOL, and of course the President's rhetoric wasn't partisan? That so called partisan hype I posted is right on, prove it wrong? How much are the taxes on the rich going to affect the deficit?
 
Then perhaps you'd better lobby your Republican Congressmen and Senators to raise more taxes on the middle class. I'd really like to know how they'd respond to that.

The middle class were beaten up by the housing fiasco the most. Now you want to hurt them some more. Going to pass that money down to the poor for more votes I suppose.
 
It's about time we confront the 'job-creators' myth head on... The Bush Tax cuts have been in place 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011... the Job Creators, my butt!!


And whom do you think creates the Jobs in this country?


Don't be timid on the capitol gains taxes. And cut the loopholes for companies that set up addresses in tax havens. You do business here. You pay taxes here.

Couldn't agree more. Damn Clinton for that damned NAFTA crap!

Hey, didn't Barry recently open up similar deals with Brazil? Yeah, I think he did, he also gave them $2 Bil of our money to deep water drill while restricting American companies from the very same....Good deal!

j-mac
 
LOL, and of course the President's rhetoric wasn't partisan? That so called partisan hype I posted is right on, prove it wrong? How much are the taxes on the rich going to affect the deficit?

I heard his speech and I laugh my ass off, this useless human being is not even serious about anything but running for president again.
 
The middle class were beaten up by the housing fiasco the most. Now you want to hurt them some more. Going to pass that money down to the poor for more votes I suppose.

I don't. I was addressing the poster that I was responding to, MaggieD, who asked why the middle class shouldn't pay more in taxes. So rather than blinding attacking people perhaps you should start paying attention to the flow of the thread, so you know exactly who you should aim your attacks at.
 
It's about time we confront the 'job-creators' myth head on... The Bush Tax cuts have been in place 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011... the Job Creators, my butt!!

Don't be timid on the capitol gains taxes. And cut the loopholes for companies that set up addresses in tax havens. You do business here. You pay taxes here.
According to Obama, the government is the only one that can create jobs.
 
Quick thoughts on the President's speech:

1. He has now added his voice to the larger fiscal consolidation discussion. That is a potentially welcome development, but the important thing will be whether agreement can be achieved that leads to credible fiscal consolidation. In other words, the results will be what matters.

2. The President's approach requires on spending cuts for 2/3 of the deficit reduction ($2T spending cuts) and 1/3 on taxes ($1T taxes). The additional $1T trillion in savings would materialize from reduced interest payments, which are a function of deficit savings (2/3 of which would come from spending reductions and 1/3 from taxes) and interest rates.

It should be noted that CNN treated the interest savings as a spending cut, stating that 75% of the deficit reduction would be achieved from spending cuts. However, that is technically incorrect. Interest savings are not a spending cut. The government does not possess the freedom to cut its interest payments to whatever figure it wants outside of default. Instead, those savings can only be achieved by slower growth in the nation's debt than what is projected for the current fiscal path. That relatively slower growth in the nation's debt would be achieved by the mix of spending reductions and tax revenue increases. Hence, that same mix should properly be attributed to the interest savings.

3. Many critical details remain to be resolved. For example, the President noted that reduced growth in domestic discretionary spending would yield $750 billion in savings over the next 12 years. Aside from providing a few details as to what he did not plan to cut (investments in medical research, clean energy, new roads, new airports, broadband access, education, and job training), he did not spell out what programs would actually be reduced and by how much.

4. With respect to Defense Department savings, he stated that he would work with Secretary of Defense Gates and the Joint Chiefs on a review. Those details are subject to the review.

5. On health care spending, even as he had previously acknowledged that Medicare and Medicaid are key drivers of the nation's fiscal challenge, he relied on the political favorite of reducing waste and fraud ("wasteful subsidies and erroneous payments). He did mention that Medicare would negotiate prescription drug prices. He promised to work with governors "to demand more efficiency and accountability" from Medicaid. Even as he offered few details, he declared that an additional $500 billion in savings would be realized from Medicare and Medicaid. But without the specifics, it is difficult to determine how feasible that estimate is.

My concern with the concept is that it does not place enough emphasis on Medicare and Medicaid reforms. With details lacking, it is difficult to see whether the two programs that are major drivers of the nation's fiscal imbalances, would be fundamentally reformed. The implicit assumption might be that cosmetic changes would be more likely. If, in fact, that is the case, then progress along the President's path could be temporary. Ultimately, the largely unreformed Medicare and Medicaid imbalances would erode and then reverse the progress. For now, I'm hesitant to argue that there wouldn't be serious reform of those programs, but the speech (emphasis only on prescription drugs and mainly on waste/fraud/efficiency savings) appears to discount fundamental reforms.

6. No increase in the Social Security eligibility age, much less linking the age to life expectancy was offered. Yet, in macroeconomic terms, that would be relatively neutral, as it would have little impact on personal consumption expenditures.

7. The magnitude of savings is less than those proposed by Bowles-Simpson and Congressman Paul Ryan. In addition, the timeframe involved is somewhat lengthier.

8. He proposes a trigger ("debt failsafe") should the nation's debt as a share of GDP not stabilize and then decline as projected by 2014 or if Congress fails to act. However, without details, it is difficult to know how this process would work, whether there is assurance that it would work, and also its constitutionality.
 
Quick thoughts on the President's speech:

1. He has now added his voice to the larger fiscal consolidation discussion. That is a potentially welcome development, but the important thing will be whether agreement can be achieved that leads to credible fiscal consolidation. In other words, the results will be what matters.

2. The President's approach requires on spending cuts for 2/3 of the deficit reduction ($2T spending cuts) and 1/3 on taxes ($1T taxes). The additional $1T trillion in savings would materialize from reduced interest payments, which are a function of deficit savings (2/3 of which would come from spending reductions and 1/3 from taxes) and interest rates.

It should be noted that CNN treated the interest savings as a spending cut, stating that 75% of the deficit reduction would be achieved from spending cuts. However, that is technically incorrect. Interest savings are not a spending cut. The government does not possess the freedom to cut its interest payments to whatever figure it wants outside of default. Instead, those savings can only be achieved by slower growth in the nation's debt than what is projected for the current fiscal path. That relatively slower growth in the nation's debt would be achieved by the mix of spending reductions and tax revenue increases. Hence, that same mix should properly be attributed to the interest savings.

3. Many critical details remain to be resolved. For example, the President noted that reduced growth in domestic discretionary spending would yield $750 billion in savings over the next 12 years. Aside from providing a few details as to what he did not plan to cut (investments in medical research, clean energy, new roads, new airports, broadband access, education, and job training), he did not spell out what programs would actually be reduced and by how much.

4. With respect to Defense Department savings, he stated that he would work with Secretary of Defense Gates and the Joint Chiefs on a review. Those details are subject to the review.

5. On health care spending, even as he had previously acknowledged that Medicare and Medicaid are key drivers of the nation's fiscal challenge, he relied on the political favorite of reducing waste and fraud ("wasteful subsidies and erroneous payments). He did mention that Medicare would negotiate prescription drug prices. He promised to work with governors "to demand more efficiency and accountability" from Medicaid. Even as he offered few details, he declared that an additional $500 billion in savings would be realized from Medicare and Medicaid. But without the specifics, it is difficult to determine how feasible that estimate is.

My concern with the concept is that it does not place enough emphasis on Medicare and Medicaid reforms. With details lacking, it is difficult to see whether the two programs that are major drivers of the nation's fiscal imbalances, would be fundamentally reformed. The implicit assumption might be that cosmetic changes would be more likely. If, in fact, that is the case, then progress along the President's path could be temporary. Ultimately, the largely unreformed Medicare and Medicaid imbalances would erode and then reverse the progress. For now, I'm hesitant to argue that there wouldn't be serious reform of those programs, but the speech (emphasis only on prescription drugs and mainly on waste/fraud/efficiency savings) appears to discount fundamental reforms.

6. No increase in the Social Security eligibility age, much less linking the age to life expectancy was offered. Yet, in macroeconomic terms, that would be relatively neutral, as it would have little impact on personal consumption expenditures.

7. The magnitude of savings is less than those proposed by Bowles-Simpson and Congressman Paul Ryan. In addition, the timeframe involved is somewhat lengthier.

8. He proposes a trigger ("debt failsafe") should the nation's debt as a share of GDP not stabilize and then decline as projected by 2014 or if Congress fails to act. However, without details, it is difficult to know how this process would work, whether there is assurance that it would work, and also its constitutionality.

You will never see major reforms of medicare or medicaid in a Democrat budget in a gazillion years. Did I say 'never'? Well let me say it a few more times so you understand the magnitude of the word 'never'.
 
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You used the phrase 'without details' quite a bit there Don. With just cause. His speech was, as always, short on details.
 
You used the phrase 'without details' quite a bit there Don. With just cause. His speech was, as always, short on details.

In Obama's mind details are for someone else to hammer out so that he can, as always take the ideological name calling to new hights.


j-mac
 
What is so sacrosanct about the middle class? We're in big fiscal trouble. Everyone needs to share the pain. Ya' know those 47% that pay no income tax at all??? Those 71 million? Time they started paying, too. If they did, maybe they'd exercise their power to vote a little more carefully and help the rest of us stop this spending spree. 47% of households owe no tax - and their ranks are growing - Sep. 30, 2009

Link that Ryan's plan gives an additional 25% cut in income taxes, please.


Who said the middle class is sacrosanct, YOU and only you said that, who said the middleclass shouldnt share the pain, I didnt...now ill ask you
Who the hell are the richest americans to keep getting tax cuts when were BROKE and wanting the middle class and the poor to take hits..
Paul Ryans plan is full of **** 25% straight up tax cut for Americans ONLY AT THE TOP RATE and the same for Corporations, this is AFTER the bush tax cuts are extended...then he and YOU want the middle class and the poor to pay more to fix the debt and give the rich more money....you people must think everyone is stupid.
Ill say this again and stay tuned...if the teaparty wants to go far right they will eventually get spanked just like the far left did.
 
I heard his speech and I laugh my ass off, this useless human being is not even serious about anything but running for president again.

We're coming up on an election. I doubt many Republicans are serious about doing anything other than winning the election for their party.
 
Who the hell are the richest americans to keep getting tax cuts when were BROKE and wanting the middle class and the poor to take hits..

Who are the so called "rich"?

j-mac
 
We're coming up on an election. I doubt many Republicans are serious about doing anything other than winning the election for their party.

It won't take much for the Reps. to win the next election. Americans are fed up with the president that has done nothing but spend 3 trillion Dlls. in 2 and 1/2 years and bankrupting the country.
 
Link


He's making a political move. He wants to own the budget reduction debate.
Well, he didn't do a very good job. I thought his speech was kind of a mess for Democrats. I think he made an excellent case for why the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy should expire, but he didn't contribute any concrete idea for fixing any of the big programs. This gives Republicans an easy opportunity to portray him as addicted to spending and not serious about cutting the budget.

He better get Biden in those meetings pronto so Democrats have a counter to Ryan's plan fast. Or hope that the Gang of Six release their proposal soon.

The line of the speech, though, was "They want to give people like me a two hundred thousand dollar tax cut that’s paid for by asking thirty three seniors to each pay six thousand dollars more in health costs?"
 
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Who said the middle class is sacrosanct, YOU and only you said that, who said the middleclass shouldnt share the pain, I didnt...now ill ask you
Who the hell are the richest americans to keep getting tax cuts when were BROKE and wanting the middle class and the poor to take hits..
Paul Ryans plan is full of **** 25% straight up tax cut for Americans ONLY AT THE TOP RATE and the same for Corporations, this is AFTER the bush tax cuts are extended...then he and YOU want the middle class and the poor to pay more to fix the debt and give the rich more money....you people must think everyone is stupid.
Ill say this again and stay tuned...if the teaparty wants to go far right they will eventually get spanked just like the far left did.

Who are they to keep getting to keep more of their own money? Do you realize what you are saying? Do you really believe that this President is serious about cutting the deficit and addressing the debt? We are broke because we spend too much not because we get too little revenue. I cannot believe how brainwashed some people have become. There is no way that the rich can fund the liberal appetite but that doesn't seem to resonate with liberals. What you also don't seem to understand is that 47% of the income earners don't pay any Federal Income Taxes. why do you support that?
 
You used the phrase 'without details' quite a bit there Don. With just cause. His speech was, as always, short on details.

But it's not up to the President to provide details. Remember, it's Congress who proposes, writes, and and passes bills. All the President does, technically, is sign a bill into law or veto a bill. He can't even propose a bill - if he wants a law made he has to convince a Congressman or Senator to propose it for him.

De facto, yes, the President has the ability to influence the writing of a bill. But in this budget bill, there's so many different factions already - Tea Party House Republicans, social conservative House Republicans, moderate House Republicans, conservative House Democrats, progressive House Democrats, Senate Democrats, and Senate Republicans - that the last thing we need is someone else demanding specifics.

I don't think the President - even if he was a Republican President - deserves much blame for what's going on regarding this budget. Rather, the blame goes to our politicians in Congress for not being able to make practical compromises. Then again, that's not surprising when the American people tend to be uncomfortable with compromises nowadays and vote out politicians who do.

So maybe it's more our own fault than anyone elses'.
 
The middle class were beaten up by the housing fiasco the most. Now you want to hurt them some more.

Exactly what getting rid of Fannie and Freddie would do. Cause housing prices to sink further because there will be fewer buyers.
 
Who are they to keep getting to keep more of their own money? Do you realize what you are saying? Do you really believe that this President is serious about cutting the deficit and addressing the debt? We are broke because we spend too much not because we get too little revenue. I cannot believe how brainwashed some people have become. There is no way that the rich can fund the liberal appetite but that doesn't seem to resonate with liberals. What you also don't seem to understand is that 47% of the income earners don't pay any Federal Income Taxes. why do you support that?

I know exactly what Im saying and no where did I mention the obama..I strictly was talking about ryans plan to rape everyone in america and give the Richest Americans another tax break while were BROKE.
This isnt complex its very simple, were indebt up to our necks and EVERYONE needs to share the pain until were OUT OF DEBT.
Ryan wants the bush tax cuts permanent and give 25% tax cuts to only the TOP earning americans and corporations...nonesense, if were going to get out of debt everyone pays the middleclass is being asked to pay more FINE..but you dont turn around and tell the super rich americans you pay 25% less...when were OUT of debt and in the Black then give a 25% tax cut...ryans plan is a flamboozle on the middle class...READ IT.
Ryans plan will assure many lifelong republican middle class will jump ship...they arent all stupid and see what this teaparty thing has turned into
 
I strictly was talking about ryans plan to rape everyone in america and give the Richest Americans another tax break while were BROKE.

This kind of partisan tripe doesn't help anything either.
 
Here is ryans proposal broken down maggie and you will see he wants to LOWER both the personal income tax rate and the corporate tax rate to 25% from 35% which is a full 25% reduction in the top earners income taxs.

You had me at taking 10% less from my wallet.

Was there more to the document then that? I couldn't tell, I nearly blacked out at the thought of governmenting taking 10% less.
 
This kind of partisan tripe doesn't help anything either.

Im a republican for 42 yrs...admittedly that may change soon, so I was not being partisan...I was stating a truth as I see it...I did however over dramatize it.
 
lpast;1059408700]I know exactly what Im saying and no where did I mention the obama..I strictly was talking about ryans plan to rape everyone in america and give the Richest Americans another tax break while were BROKE.

Since when is allowing people to keep more of what they earned giving them anything? In your world raping everyone in America is allowing people to keep more of what they earned?

This isnt complex its very simple, were indebt up to our necks and EVERYONE needs to share the pain until were OUT OF DEBT.

Right, then stop the damn spending and do what the Founders envisioned for our Federal Govt. We have 50 states that do most of what the Federal Govt does so why the duplication? You think 47% of income earners not paying any Federal Taxes is sharing the pain? How much exactly are you going to get out of those evil rich people?


Ryan wants the bush tax cuts permanent and give 25% tax cuts to only the TOP earning americans and corporations...nonesense, if were going to get out of debt everyone pays the middleclass is being asked to pay more FINE..but you dont turn around and tell the super rich americans you pay 25% less...when were OUT of debt and in the Black then give a 25% tax cut...ryans plan is a flamboozle on the middle class...READ IT.

See above, the govt. isn't giving the rich or anyone else anything when they let them keep more of what they earned. That is nonsense and scares the hell out of me if this is what you learned in school.


Ryans plan will assure many lifelong republican middle class will jump ship...they arent all stupid and see what this teaparty thing has turned into

Only the ignorant will jump ship and that is what Obama is counting on. Don't see a lot of intelligence coming from the Obama supporters
 
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