Misbehaving Boy, 8, Pepper Sprayed By Police

Whovian said:

I guess you missed (or ignored) the multiple posts where people pointed out to you that the officers DID try to talk him down.

Fail.

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I indeed did miss them as I went to my last post as I usually do, but of course you are going to try and say I ignored them.

There are still conflicting reports from the cops and the mother, but still, seeing upon this new information, I'll say that the cops did do the correct thing.

Mr. Invisible said:

I indeed did miss them as I went to my last post as I usually do, but of course you are going to try and say I ignored them.

There are still conflicting reports from the cops and the mother, but still, seeing upon this new information, I'll say that the cops did do the correct thing.

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I said you either missed or ignored. One or the other. You cleared that up, so thanks.

AS for conflicting reports between the cops and the mother... the cops were there, the mother wasn't. They are eye witnesses, while the mother is basing her story on heresay. Which generally holds up in court?

Mr. Invisible said:

I indeed did miss them as I went to my last post as I usually do, but of course you are going to try and say I ignored them.

There are still conflicting reports from the cops and the mother, but still, seeing upon this new information, I'll say that the cops did do the correct thing.

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My guess is the mother, ignorantly but thinking like a concerned parent, just ASSUMES that if they were able to talk him down last time then they OBVIOUSLY should've been able to talk him down this time and since they weren't able to then obviously they just didn't try hard enough.

That said, if we want to play a guessing game, we could also suggest that the past two times they had to "pacify" him he wasn't destroying property, attempting to reengage those that have fled, brandishing a weapon, and shouting threats (apparently just "having a fit" according to some posters) and thus talking him down for longer may've been more feasible.

Whovian said:

I said you either missed or ignored. One or the other. You cleared that up, so thanks.

AS for conflicting reports between the cops and the mother... the cops were there, the mother wasn't. They are eye witnesses, while the mother is basing her story on heresay. Which generally holds up in court?

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and, of course, mommy is going to side with her little darling who would never do anything wrong. :roll: I lost count of the number of times I had a parent say "My child would NEVER do that" , even though there were 40 frakin witnesses that saw her child do exactly "that".

OscarB63 said:

and, of course, mommy is going to side with her little darling who would never do anything wrong. :roll: I lost count of the number of times I had a parent say "My child would NEVER do that" , even though there were 40 frakin witnesses that saw her child do exactly "that".

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I've had teachers embellish a bit, too; so every time I get a call from the school house, I try to go into it with an open mind.

I have no issue with this. The kid had a weapon, refused to drop it, had tried to stab people with it, cops had two prior experiences with him. Weapons are easier to take away from people when they are crying on the ground in a puddle of snot and tears. Why should they risk getting hurt for this turd and his weak moms parenting. (assumed by her blaming the cops instead of spanking his butt afterwards) Color me crazy, but this kid learned a valuable leason and next time the cops tell him to drop a weapon they probably won't have to shoot him. Kids get away with way too much, maybe if we came down harder on them when they were young they wouldn't fill our prisons as adults...

Ya have to be really careful of elderly ladies, too. Spray them in the eyes and push them over their walker.

Whovian said:

repeat offender.

unless we know how large/sharp the wood being swung was, we don't really know if it was a real danger to the officers or anyone else.

I have a 10 yr old, but I'll give the officers the benefit of the doubt on thisd one.

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We don't know how big the 8 year old is either.

ric27 said:

One can definitely see what the early stages of that style of parenting looks like.

Obviously some people aren't fit to be parents.

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Where is the father?

VanceMack said:

Our most recent was this last weekend...an 8 year old kid, brought to the ER because he has learned how to pull mommies strings. He told her he hated her and was going to kill himself...he knows thats usually good for 5-8 days at an adolescent psych unit. Away from mom when talking to the nursing staff he is as pleasant as can be. He was able to sit down and have a 25 minute crisis interview after being told only once that this was not his house and his bull**** wouldnt be tolerated and he could either be respectful or be restrained and if he was aggressive towards the staff he wouldnt go to a psych unit he would go to detention and be charged with assault. Still a kid? Sure...but he clearly demonstrated an ability to choose, an ability to focus and stay focused, an ability to be alert, cooperative, and appropriately responsive. Actually a smart and personable kid. Then mom came back in the room to watch Jr. 3 minutes later she is screaming and he is biting her arm so bad he is drawing blood. Nurse grabs the kid by the arm and tech applies a nerve press to the jaw. Kid is immediately subdued. Moms first remarks..."you hurt his wrist!"

All those that are critical of the cops...I defy you to put yourself not hypothetically in their shoes but physically, and see you do better.

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Again, where is the father.

theangryamerican said:

If my kid was trying to stab me, you're damn right I'd spray 'em. :2razz:

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Not only spray him but him room would be empty, he would have nothing to play with and he would not go out to see friends.

These kids think the life they have with toys and video games sucks, but it can get a whole lot worse.

apdst said:

Out of control, poorly parented kids aren't anything new. 30 years ago, when I was in grade school, teachers didn't need cops, tasers, nor pepper spray to keep kids in line.

I don't see this just as a case of crappy parenting. I also see this as a case of crappy teaching.

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I can't agree with this.

The teacher is limited on what they can do to a child which is probably why they called the police.

It had to be a serious case to call the police into the school.

The kid stated he was looking to harm other people with the weapon, it was lucky it was a stick and not a firearm.

roguenuke said:

I have yet to see anyone who is saying that the cops' response was a bad one give an alternative that was likely to work and cause potentially less damage to the child. Anyone have a realistic suggestion?

I think the cops did the right thing here and the mother needs to accept it and do a better job at parenting her son instead of parading him around like a victim.

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I think child services should be involved with this family, if you can call it that, forever more.

The behaviour will not stop. Somebody else will get hurt next time.

Zyphlin said:

And you know what, you may be right. Which is why I stated first hand I'd hope the office would review this appropriately. But its a stretch to go from suggesting that perhaps they're embellishing to just outright making it out to be something completely benign. A sharpened piece of wood can absolutely puncture the skin, significantly, even from an "8 year old kid". Even beyond that you have the whole issue of having an enraged kid that is obviously not just going to sit there while you try to "grab his arm and spank his ass", which in and of itself can lead to a tussle which could result in injury to the kid.

Not only would such a situation open the kid to FAR more harm than pepper spray would, but it opens the police to far more liability and potential damage meaning that's money that is costing the tax payers.

I see no reason for such a situation to occur as opposed to what happened...try to talk the kid down, try to get the situation deescalated non-violently, and if that's not possible take the action that's the least likely to put any party in harms way.

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It also seems to me the police were protecting the child from criminal charges as well.

If he tried to stab an officer with the stick, that would be assaulting a police officer and be a serious charge.

Zyphlin said:

In part the amount of pressure you exert on a full grown adult male and a child can result in different results. Additionally, do you think with an adult that is acting extremely enraged and crazed is a cop trained to attempt to engage with that individual physically or with some alternative means to stop them? I'd love to hear Goshin or one of our actual LEO's comment on that.

What are the chances of serious bodily harm to the child or to the officer from the use of Pepper Spray?

What are the chances of serious bodily harm to the child or to the office from the use of force?

Is one a higher chance than the other? If so, why would you suggest to use the one that has a higher chance of that?

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Which is more traumatic to the child and which is more likely to have long lasting effects?

apdst said:

Isn't acid anhydride and ingredient of Oleoresin Capsicum?

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apdst, if this was your kid and this had happened, what would you do to him afterwards?

Would you punish him further?

After all his behaviour is a reflection on your parenting skills.

Whovian said:

To say you'd attack police officers... ARMED police officers... because they used pepper spray on your out of control kid in that situation... sorry.... it's bull****. I honestly do not believe you're that ****ing stupid, dude.

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Now ask him how that would help his childs futures with him being in jail for a couple of years.

roguenuke said:

I feel bad for the cops for just this reason. The only choice that wouldn't have likely caused them issues with the mother would have been to allow the kid to keep throwing a fit and possibly do more damage to the classroom, which would have likely caused issues between them and the school for allowing destruction of property. Any physcial action taken against the boy could have very likely caused some injury to the child, even if it would have been a small bruise or cut, which could have still been viewed by many, including the boy's mother, to be "too much". She stated that she just wanted them to "talk her boy down" like they did in earlier incidents, but she obviously doesn't get that her son is being a major disruption and authority figures shouldn't be expected to allow him to behave this way until he decides to calm down just because he is a child, especially if that means more damage to school property could occur.

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He was being more than a major disruption. He was actively trying to get to where the other students were sitting to do more damage to hurt them.

This kid had the intent to hurt people.

The cops did the right thing.

Mason66 said:

The cops did the right thing.

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Disagree. They should have called in Bam for the patented double dropkick.



Would have set that little **** straight in a hurry.

505 said:

Disagree. They should have called in Bam for the patented double dropkick.



Would have set that little **** straight in a hurry.

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We're having a problem with gutter punks here in New Orleans. I guess they're everywhere. I was thinking to ease the problem we start filming a weekly reality show about how we could handle the problem. I think the action could film people bullying the punks until they leave and go home and take a bath. The bullies then find nice homes for the abused dogs they keep to avoid jail. Happy ending. We could call the show "Bully Heroes"

Your video exactly shows the type of bully action we need to solve our very annoying problem. I guess it would be kinda like Cops. Or Billy the Exterminate

liblady said:

if a police officer can't control an 8 yr old without pepper spray, i think maybe they need to go back for more training. this is ridiculous.

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I think that you have been greatly blessed. It would appear that you have never encountered a truly berserk 8yo who is truly willing to inflict grave bodily harm on others, and has a weapon in hand and will use it.

It is not quite as simple a picture as you paint it.

Twenty years ago, the child would have been physically subdued. Depending on how violently and effectively he fought, physical subdual may have resulted in bruises, or in a broken wrist or dislocated shoulder as the police attempted to remove the weapon from his possession. It is also possible the police would have been injured, perhaps severely; again, depending on how viciously the berserk child fought. 20 years ago, tasers and OC weren't as widely available or widely used by police. There's a REASON why cops use tasers and OC these days: it cuts down on injury to both perps and officers.

A truly berserk 8yo with a stabbing implement and the will to attack all-out is perfectly capable of killing an adult, if the adult doesn't defend himself vigorously. It has happened. That vigorous defense may result in bodily harm to the child that is worse than OC.

There are liability issues involved, as well as department policy issues. It may very well be that the police were FORBIDDEN by dept policy to attempt to physically disarm the child while the child was in possession of a stabbing implement. These days, most dept's frown on physical subdual of armed subjects and mandate the use of OC or Taser.


If that had been MY child... I'd have been glad that the police subdued him without serious harm, and that they stopped him from actually stabbing someone and thereby getting himself in even WORSE trouble.

Dr_Patrick said:

Yes, I'm sure the officers on the scene could not subdue the cunning 8 year old wielding a piece of wood trim without using pepper spray. They may have gotten a splinter!

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You've obviously never seen anyone get "shanked" with an improvised stabbing weapon. I have. The results were a lot more gruesome than just splinters.

Unfortunately there are some 8yo's these days who are capable of levels of violence almost undreamed-of 20 years ago.

Mason66 said:

Again, where is the father.

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A valid question for society to ask...but not responding police officers. For this case...tghis instance...the police officers came in and subdued a raging out of control 8 year old with no physical contact or violence. Kids eyes got burned a bit...he found it hard to believe. Sure as heck cleaned out his sinuses. Straightened his little ass out pretty quick, tho...right? No one hurt...no bruising, no damage.

All the people that say they would have done it differently...my guess is they haven't often "done it." Adpst, who says he definitely would do it different as a father...him I believe...but then...I highly doubt we would see his kids in this boat.

VanceMack said:

A valid question for society to ask...but not responding police officers. For this case...tghis instance...the police officers came in and subdued a raging out of control 8 year old with no physical contact or violence. Kids eyes got burned a bit...he found it hard to believe. Sure as heck cleaned out his sinuses. Straightened his little ass out pretty quick, tho...right? No one hurt...no bruising, no damage.

All the people that say they would have done it differently...my guess is they haven't often "done it." Adpst, who says he definitely would do it different as a father...him I believe...but then...I highly doubt we would see his kids in this boat.

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I saw this kid on Fox News last night. He looks a little dull. He had obviously been coached as to what to say.

He is a very angry child and by his own admission, he doesn't know why.

His mother and grandmother excuse it by saying he was picked on by other students and the teachers did nothing, even though he never told his mother or grandmother it was happening. I would say it wasn't.

No father to be seen anywhere.

As to your point, I agree, the police are not social workers, they are there to difuse the situation using the tools they have at hand.

The child had already challenged the officers and stated he was trying to harm his classmates and teacher, so I think he got off lightly.

If he would have hurt an officer he would have a criminal record.

The kid says he wants to become a Marine when he grows up. I don't think he has the character for it. Too much lying.

Mason66 said:

The kid says he wants to become a Marine when he grows up. I don't think he has the character for it. Too much lying.

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This is the big elephant in the room no one talks about in the age of 'blame it all on some psychological disorder'. The stigma will follow these kids throughout their lives and they will never have a chance. It will affect their ability to get a job, get a driver's license, join the military, get credit and also to get insurance among many other things we take for granted in life. Thank you very much American Psychiatric Association.

I'm not saying there aren't real cases of psychosis but good lord, it has gotten out of hand. All in the name of drumming up more business. Shame, shame, shame on them. Whenever I see a kid like this one who spouts some mumbo-jumbo about their disorder it makes me cringe. No kid could come up with it on their own. It has been drummed into their heads that they are deficient and that they therefore have an excuse for adding badly.