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Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

Sheik Yerbuti said:
Well since may, 2009, we've seen a net gain of almost 200,000 jobs in the private sector.

BLS.gov: Private Sector Jobs
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Wow, and yet we are still down over two million with a growing population and only spent 800 billion in stimulus to get those numbers. You must be so proud for after all it is only money and you probably didn't pay any of it.
 
Conservative said:
Again, Bush isn't on the ballot and to compare Obama's numbers to who you believe is one of our worst Presidents doesn't bode well for you and your decision making process. Trying to justify your vote on Obama by my vote for Obama ignores the economic policy both have in place. Obama's is the nanny state with Obamacare and the stimulus, Bush's was the pro growth, pro business tax cuts. Obviously we know which one you support.
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Guess what, conservative, Bush's pro growth, pro business tax cuts led us into the current recession we are in. Yes, I know the recession was technically over June 2009, but ask any American and the would say we're still there. The tax cuts to the richest Americans allowed them to gamble our prosperity away by gambling on Wall Street. Exotic derivatives, default swaps, etc. You must know this.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
What you believe and what is real are two entirely different things.

For example, while you complain about the percentage of debt of GDP being too high (a valid complaint) ... you supported the man who saw that increase 52% and refuse to support the man who saw it increase, amidst the Great Recession, just 9%.

While you complain about too many government jobs (a valid complaint) ... You supported the man who saw goverment jobs increase 8% and you refuse to support the man who saw goverment jobs decrease 2%.

While you complain about not enough manufacturing jobs (a valid complaint) ... You supported the man who saw manufacturing jobs decrease 27% and you refuse to support the man who saw manufacturing jobs decrease, amidst the Great Recession, just 7%

While you complain about unemployment being too high (a valid complaint) ... You supported the man who saw the unemployment rate skyrocket 86% and you refuse to support the man who saw the unemployment rate increase, amidst the Great Recession, just 13%

You're a bundle of confliction.

Conservative said:
Again, Bush isn't on the ballot and to compare Obama's numbers to who you believe is one of our worst Presidents doesn't bode well for you and your decision making process. Trying to justify your vote on Obama by my vote for Obama ignores the economic policy both have in place. Obama's is the nanny state with Obamacare and the stimulus, Bush's was the pro growth, pro business tax cuts. Obviously we know which one you support.
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I was talking about you and your hypocrisy.
 
Conservative said:
You really have a bad case of BDS and need to seek help. Bush isn't in office and the unemployment and debt are worse today than when Obama took office yet results don't matter to the Obama cult followers.
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Look...Dude....you are the one who was claiming that results matter. Don't get all bent out of shape when someone points out the fact that you voted for a dismal failure multiple times. If you can't handle having your hypocracies pointed out, then I suggest you either grow a thicker skin or think before you post. The reality that you either fail to recognize or simply refuse to accept is that the vast majority of the mess that we are in today as a country is a direct result of GWB's policies. The vast majority of the country recognizes that even though there are a few like yourself that continue to pull the wool over your eyes. The fact that GWB isn't in office anymore does not automatically erase the mess that he created while he was there.
 
Conservative said:
Mandatory coverage and penalties are violations of the Constitution and individual states rights.
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Well just have to let the Supreme Court decide now, won't we?

That is the state's responsibility to decide, not Obama's. Why do you care what I have done locally when you acknowledge that is a local responsibility, not a Federal Responsibility? Do you believe it was obama's job to save teacher's jobs in the states?
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Translations: "I got nothin' have done nothin' except bitch and complain because a Democrat is in the White House. So, I'll just deflect the subject once again and hope no one notices."

matter, not rhetoric.
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Hence, the reason Obama may just win 2012. The stock market has gained over 3,000 points from its low of 9,000 since the fall of 2008 when the housing bubble burst and the country was thrown into the biggest recession since the Great Depression, private sector job growth has seen positive gains over the last 6 months, the banks are more stable today than they were over 2 years ago, and the American auto industry is still intact and doing rather well according to recent economic reports.

As my wife is fond of saying for each presidential election cycle where the economy falters, "It's the economy, stupid!" And seeing that progress is being made in that area, I'd say it's gonna take a major FUBAR (F'd Up Beyond All Recognition...for those who don't know what the acronym stands for) before President Obama loses his bid for a 2nd term. So far, the GOP is playing their cards terribly wrong, IMO.
 
pbrauer said:
Guess what, conservative, Bush's pro growth, pro business tax cuts led us into the current recession we are in. Yes, I know the recession was technically over June 2009, but ask any American and the would say we're still there. The tax cuts to the richest Americans allowed them to gamble our prosperity away by gambling on Wall Street. Exotic derivatives, default swaps, etc. You must know this.
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They also led to a 4.5 trillion growth in GDP and a net job gain whereas we have a net job loss since the Obama stimulus plan. The recession we have was due to the financial collapse not the collapse of the free enterprise economy that we have. Gambling on Wall Street seems not to be much of a problem today with the great gains liberals are now pointing to in the stock market.

As for tax cuts, tax cuts for taxpayers actually ticks off wealth redistribution liberals who see their power dwindling thus are fighting so hard to destroy it.
 
pbrauer said:
Guess what, conservative, Bush's pro growth, pro business tax cuts led us into the current recession we are in. Yes, I know the recession was technically over June 2009, but ask any American and the would say we're still there. The tax cuts to the richest Americans allowed them to gamble our prosperity away by gambling on Wall Street. Exotic derivatives, default swaps, etc. You must know this.
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He knows. He just refuses to acknowledge that his side made some terrible mistakes that cost millions of Americans their jobs, their property, theirealth and in some cases their life! (Yes, people have committed suicide because they were forced out of their homes, lost their jobs and their entire way of life destroyed because of the greed perpetrated on Wall Street.)

He knows...he just won't admit it.
 
Objective Voice said:
Well just have to let the Supreme Court decide now, won't we?



Translations: "I got nothin' have done nothin' except bitch and complain because a Democrat is in the White House. So, I'll just deflect the subject once again and hope no one notices."



Hence, the reason Obama may just win 2012. The stock market has gained over 3,000 points from its low of 9,000 since the fall of 2008 when the housing bubble burst and the country was thrown into the biggest recession since the Great Depression, private sector job growth has seen positive gains over the last 6 months, the banks are more stable today than they were over 2 years ago, and the American auto industry is still intact and doing rather well according to recent economic reports.

As my wife is fond of saying for each presidential election cycle where the economy falters, "It's the economy, stupid!" And seeing that progress is being made in that area, I'd say it's gonna take a major FUBAR (F'd Up Beyond All Recognition...for those who don't know what the acronym stands for) before President Obama loses his bid for a 2nd term. So far, the GOP is playing their cards terribly wrong, IMO.
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What a bunch of garbage, you think it is the Federal Responsibility to save teacher's jobs in the states? Those are the saved jobs Obama is taking credit for.

If the economy is like it is today or worse Obama will lose, If it is better then he will win and we cannot afford another four years of this kind of economic policy. Unbelieveable how so many people here continue to buy the rhetoric and ignore basic civics. Congress helped create the recession but that reality is ignored and Obama has spent more time on the perks of being President vs. the responsibilty and duties of being the President. He lacks leadership and the results show it. $4 gasoline and increasing prices is a good start on that FUBAR.
 
Conservative said:
As did I, results don't matter as much as the rhetoric.
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Where's the Conservative results then? They're not very good if you look at the last Conservative President.

Meaning all you have is rhetoric.
 
Objective Voice said:
He knows. He just refuses to acknowledge that his side made some terrible mistakes that cost millions of Americans their jobs, their property, theirealth and in some cases their life! (Yes, people have committed suicide because they were forced out of their homes, lost their jobs and their entire way of life destroyed because of the greed perpetrated on Wall Street.)

He knows...he just won't admit it.
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Keep running on the "I am not Bush" platform. Doesn't seem that is resonating any more except with the hardcore Obama brainwashed. As for that greed on Wall Street, how much of that Greed went to Obama in campaign contributions and support? Better find out who is donators were
 
Conservative said:
You mean putting activists Justices on the Court that makes the laws instead of interpreting the Constitution?
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What does that even mean? That all Liberal judges are "activist judges" and no Conservative judges are "activist judges?"

No, I mean the U.S.S.C., IMO, is still too Conservative and I don't want to see it become even more Conservative. It has nothing to do with your rightwing talking point about "activist judges."

Conservative said:
You mean like having fewer employed than when he took office and saving state responsibility jobs like teachers? Is that the role of the Federal Taxpayer?
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I factor in the state of the economy he inherited.

Conservative said:
Right and having more people drop out of the labor force than any other President and then claiming that the unemployment percentage is lower
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There's no other way to compare performance among the various presidents. I understand you hate that because it reveals that Obama has performed better than every Republican president since Hoover, but that's really not my problem.

Conservative said:
Those evil corporations that aren't hiring?
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I'm not sure what you think that has to do with the stock market increasing more during his first two years than any other president, but suffice it to say, I'm not thoroughly convinced yet that you're not drowning in rightwing misconceptions.

Sheik Yerbuti; said:
His ability to drive Conservatives crazy is also a caveat. :wink:

Conservative said:
You mean his ability to brainwash supporters into adopting policies in complete violation of our Founders vision for this country?
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Do you even realize you just made my point? :lamo
 
rocket88 said:
Where's the Conservative results then? They're not very good if you look at the last Conservative President.

Meaning all you have is rhetoric.
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I doubt that results matter to you as I have posted them in this forum now for months. You obviously haven't been paying any attention so it is a waste of time now. If you truly care about results then go to bls.gov, bea.gov, and the U.S. Treasury websites and you will find the results for Bush and you can compare them yourself to Obama's. I doubt you will do that however as you prefer rhetoric to actual results.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
What does that even mean? That all Liberal judges are "activist judges" and no Conservative judges are "activist judges?"

No, I mean the U.S.S.C., IMO, is still too Conservative and I don't want to see it become even more Conservative. It has nothing to do with your rightwing talking point about "activist judges."


I factor in the state of the economy he inherited.


There's no other way to compare performance among the various presidents. I understand you hate that because it reveals that Obama has performed better than every Republican president since Hoover, but that's really not my problem.


I'm not sure what you think that has to do with the stock market increasing more during his first two years than any other president, but suffice it to say, I'm not thoroughly convinced yet that you're not drowning in rightwing misconceptions.


Do you even realize you just made my point? :lamo
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What is the statue of Limitations on blaming Bush?
 
disneydude said:
Look...Dude....you are the one who was claiming that results matter. Don't get all bent out of shape when someone points out the fact that you voted for a dismal failure multiple times. If you can't handle having your hypocracies pointed out, then I suggest you either grow a thicker skin or think before you post. The reality that you either fail to recognize or simply refuse to accept is that the vast majority of the mess that we are in today as a country is a direct result of GWB's policies. The vast majority of the country recognizes that even though there are a few like yourself that continue to pull the wool over your eyes. The fact that GWB isn't in office anymore does not automatically erase the mess that he created while he was there.
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Great, then answer the question, when does the statue of limitations run out on blaming Bush? When does it become the Obama economy in your world?
 
Conservative said:
Results matter, not rhetoric.
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You keep repeating that as though that means something to you.

It doesn't.

In 2004, these are the results you voted for ... Twin Towers destroyed (cost us 3,000 lives), 2 million additional unemployed, invasion of Iraq over WMD that weren't there (cost us another 5,000 lives).

If results mattered, not rhetoric, then you would never have voted for Bush in 2004. You couldn't have -- not based on those results.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
For creating and saving 3.5 million jobs during Bush's Great Recession.

Whovian said:
Even your savior himself stopped using that nonsensical talking point, once his own people told him they really can't prove it one way or the other. For you to use it as a reason to vote for him again is as nonsensical as the statement itself... more so.
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I got that number from Conservative ... take it up with him.
 
Conservative said:
Keep running on the "I am not Bush" platform. Doesn't seem that is resonating any more except with the hardcore Obama brainwashed. As for that greed on Wall Street, how much of that Greed went to Obama in campaign contributions and support? Better find out who is donators were
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It's not a platform. It's the truth. Can you deny that when GW Bush left office he left the country in an economic mess?

Deflecting (once again) to campaign contributions has nothing to do with the nation's economy. So, come off that tip. If you wish to discuss who donates to which political candidate, I'd suggest you take your debate over to one of the forums that deal with partisan politics.

Back to this thread topic, specifically the debt, deficits, campaign promises kept or broken, I skimmed over the CBS article I linked to earlier and didn't catch this in the last paragraph, first page:

As for federal spending, the size of the annual federal deficit has been coming down since reaching a high of $413-Billion in 2004. The Administration forecasts a deficit this year of $205-Billion. The forecast from the Congressional Budget Office is lower still at $158-Billion.

But the size of the National Debt has soared. It now stands at $8.9-Trillion dollars (under GW Bush) - numerically in excess of the debt ceiling authorized by law. On the day Mr. Bush took office, it was $5.7-Trillion. That’s a 57% increase on Mr. Bush’s watch. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson is already calling on Congress to hike the debt ceiling as soon as possible for the fifth time in six years.
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But you won't hear the GOP acknowleding these facts, not while a Democrat's in the White House (or even while they're there, should they win the presidency back..I shudder the thought!).
 
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I look forward to the most definitely interesting campaigns to come. My vote will most likely go to Obama.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
You keep repeating that as though that means something to you.

It doesn't.

In 2004, these are the results you voted for ... Twin Towers destroyed (cost us 3,000 lives), 2 million additional unemployed, invasion of Iraq over WMD that weren't there (cost us another 5,000 lives).

If results mattered, not rhetoric, then you would never have voted for Bush in 2004. You couldn't have -- not based on those results.
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Comparing the results of Obama to 2008 don't bode well for the future nor does it bode well for the results that the American people see. When do the statute of limitations run out on blaming Bush?
 
Objective Voice said:
It's not a platform. It's the truth. Can you deny that when GW Bush left office he left the country in an economic mess?

Deflecting (once again) to campaign contributions has nothing to do with the nation's economy. So, come off that tip. If you wish to discuss who donates to which political candidate, I'd suggest you take your debate over to one of the forums that deal with partisan politics.
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No, cannot deny it but understand civics, Congress helped and Obama was in that Congress. Economists claim that TARP bailed us out and TARP was Bush's. I didn't support TARP but Bush signed it and Obama supported it.

The talk about evil Wall Street and tying that to Conservatives is the issue here or did you forget yours and others claims? The fact is Wall Street gave more to Obama than it gave to McCain yet I keep hearing about how Wall Street is in the hip pocket of Conservatives.
 
Conservative said:
Comparing the results of Obama to 2008 don't bode well for the future nor does it bode well for the results that the American people see. When do the statute of limitations run out on blaming Bush?
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When you and yours acknowledge his mistakes. Until then, I think it fair to remind people just who is (was) responsible for the country's economic mess.
 
Objective Voice said:
When you and yours acknowledge his mistakes. Until then, I think it fair to remind people just who is (was) responsible for the country's economic mess.
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What mistakes, not reforming Freddie and Fannie along with sub prime loans and packaging those loans? Oh, Wait, Bush tried that 17 times and was defeated by a non supportive? Guess it is easier to place blame than accept responsibility for the failures of this President whose numbers are worse than Bush's after the end of a recession.
 
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