• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

Dittohead not! said:
The actions of that jihadist scum were the totally predictable outcome of the actions of Reverend Nutter. He knew, or at least should have known, that his publicity stunt was putting lives at risk. He is, therefore, to blame for having set off religious extremists and indirectly having caused death and injury.
Click to expand...

Alot of people think that Muslims, as a whole, are America hatin', blood thirsty assholes. These clowns in Afghanistan went out of their way to prove them right.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
No it doesn't. You still have the right. You are just choosing not to exercise it because you understand that the consequences of exercising it might be more than you want.
Click to expand...

I'm finding it difficult to consider something a right if the fear of conequences are enough to stop anyone from exercising that right.
Do I have the right to publish political incorrect cartoons? Not really in my opinion. Not when threats prohibit me from exercising that right.
What if animal-rights activists started killing 12 people everytime a hunter shot a deer. Do you think hunters would still feel they had a right to hunt?
Face it.These are example of rights being eroded away by blackmail.
 
Barbbtx said:
I'm finding it difficult to consider something a right if the fear of conequences are enough to stop anyone from exercising that right.
Do I have the right to publish political incorrect cartoons? Not really in my opinion. Not when threats prohibit me from exercising that right.
What if animal-rights activists started killing 12 people everytime a hunter shot a deer. Do you think hunters would still feel they had a right to hunt?
Face it.These are example of rights being eroded away by blackmail.
Click to expand...

It's called, "Political Correctness".
 
Barbbtx said:
I'm finding it difficult to consider something a right if the fear of conequences are enough to stop anyone from exercising that right.
Do I have the right to publish political incorrect cartoons? Not really in my opinion. Not when threats prohibit me from exercising that right.
What if animal-rights activists started killing 12 people everytime a hunter shot a deer. Do you think hunters would still feel they had a right to hunt?
Face it.These are example of rights being eroded away by blackmail.
Click to expand...

Reverend Jones had every right, under the first Amendment, to burn the Koran.

Along with that right, comes responsibility.

You can yell "fire" in the crowded theater, but you're responsible for the riot that ensues. You can say that your neighbor is a child molester, but, if that isn't true, your neighbor has the right to sue for defamation. You have the right to incite crazies to violence, but you're responsible for the results.

There are no rights without responsibilities.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
I don't get it.
Click to expand...

from my understanding he was protesting islam and sharia law, namely that islam is evil. But wouldn't try to over analyze things, being that his thoughts on the subject are a little off and over simplistic.

But that's tthe burden of free speech. For it to be a real right, even people like Fred Phelps, and thiss guy, need to be able to exercise it. So it doesn't really matter if you get it
 
The point is making them look stupid by killing people over it...
 
Really? Who is saying it? Even FOX news is condemning Jones.
X Factor said:
Once again, yes it has. Anyone who's claiming that Jones should be held accountable in some way, is effectively saying he didn't have the right.
Click to expand...
 
Dittohead not! said:
Reverend Jones had every right, under the first Amendment, to burn the Koran.

Along with that right, comes responsibility.

You can yell "fire" in the crowded theater, but you're responsible for the riot that ensues. You can say that your neighbor is a child molester, but, if that isn't true, your neighbor has the right to sue for defamation. You have the right to incite crazies to violence, but you're responsible for the results.

There are no rights without responsibilities.
Click to expand...
the reason you can't yell fire in a theater is because it creates circumstances that people don't have the option to deliberate over, because such could lead to their death. Such a scenario isn't created by burning the Quran

Also, do you feel the civil rights activists were responsible for how they "incited" racists?
 
Here we go again. It is a question that is fair. Jones can use whatever excuse he wants for his stupidity. Rights don't explain the question being asked.
ManofthPeephole said:
from my understanding he was protesting islam and sharia law, namely that islam is evil. But wouldn't try to over analyze things, being that his thoughts on the subject are a little off and over simplistic.

But that's tthe burden of free speech. For it to be a real right, even people like Fred Phelps, and thiss guy, need to be able to exercise it. So it doesn't really matter if you get it
Click to expand...
 
I am pointing out that people like General Patraeus have condemned Jones. Why? Does the genearl not believe in his rights? Ofcourse not. The General lives in reality. He understands he has people to protect and a situation he is trying to control. Most people get that Jones is a pubixity seeker who doesn't care what sort of violence he stirs up. You like the rest of us should condemn his ignorance. It doesn't mean you are denying him his free speech.
ManofthPeephole said:
you're making an appeal to popularity
Click to expand...
 
apdst said:
You don't understand self expression? And you claim to be a Liberal??
Click to expand...
No, I don't understand the point in burning a Qu'ran. Especially by a reverend.
 
ManofthPeephole said:
the reason you can't yell fire in a theater is because it creates circumstances that people don't have the option to deliberate over, because such could lead to their death. Such a scenario isn't created by burning the Quran
Click to expand...

Such a scenario was created by burning the Koran, unless, of course, you think the victims actually had the option to deliberate their fate.

ManofthPeephole said:
Also, do you feel the civil rights activists were responsible for how they "incited" racists?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. The civil rights activists were responsible for all of the outcomes of their activism. The question is, were there more positive, or more negative consequences to their actions?
 
I love that when you are running out of running room with your arguments you turn to the old "Well ya but what about those other guys". Civil rights have nothing at all to do with this subject. It's simply a way to obscure the issue. One issue at a time would be reasonable I would think.
ManofthPeephole said:
the reason you can't yell fire in a theater is because it creates circumstances that people don't have the option to deliberate over, because such could lead to their death. Such a scenario isn't created by burning the Quran

Also, do you feel the civil rights activists were responsible for how they "incited" racists?
Click to expand...
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Not at all. There is a difference between one making a choice that affects others and one having any responsibility in the behavior of those other people. For example, if I burn the US Flag, and someone gets pissed off that I did it and goes on a killing rampage, my behavior had an impact on others, and it may have been prudent for me to have not burned the flag... even though it was entirely legal for me to do so. Even with this, though, I am not responsible for the behaviors of that other person's murders.
Click to expand...

True. However if everytime someone burned an American flag, 12 people would be killed in a horrific manner, wouldn't you say your right to burn the flag was at least seriously compromised? In my opinion, the right to burn the flag in the future isn't much of a right at all because it's doubtful anyone would exercise it.
 
ManofthPeephole said:
the reason you can't yell fire in a theater is because it creates circumstances that people don't have the option to deliberate over, because such could lead to their death. Such a scenario isn't created by burning the Quran

Also, do you feel the civil rights activists were responsible for how they "incited" racists?
Click to expand...

That is an incredibly literalist interpretaton of the yelling fire analogy. Much like the thinking behind the pastor's triggering of events.
We have several past instances of both real and alleged Koran abuse and the extreme, often lethal reaction to those events on the part of some ill-educated natives. Knowing this, the pastor chose to set the pavlovian bell ringing, and the kindest interpretation of his action could be said to be that he possibly got a more extreme reaction than he expected.
 
Not to mention the right has tried to outlaw flag burning on several occasions so they must have felt pretty hurt by it.
Barbbtx said:
True. However if everytime someone burned an American flag, 12 people would be killed in a horrific manner, wouldn't you say your right to burn the flag was at least seriously compromised? In my opinion, the right to burn the flag in the future isn't much of a right at all because it's doubtful anyone would exercise it.
Click to expand...
 
Barbbtx said:
True. However if everytime someone burned an American flag, 12 people would be killed in a horrific manner, wouldn't you say your right to burn the flag was at least seriously compromised? In my opinion, the right to burn the flag in the future isn't much of a right at all because it's doubtful anyone would exercise it.
Click to expand...

If there were a bunch of crazies who would riot and start cutting off heads as a result of burning a US flag, then doing so would be highly irresponsible, don't you think?

There is a bunch of crazies who will riot and start cutting off heads when the Koran is burned. That is a fact that is well known, and was well known by Reverend Nutter and his followers. Burning the Koran, therefore, was highly irresponsible, and they should be called on it.
 
Barbbtx said:
True. However if everytime someone burned an American flag, 12 people would be killed in a horrific manner, wouldn't you say your right to burn the flag was at least seriously compromised? In my opinion, the right to burn the flag in the future isn't much of a right at all because it's doubtful anyone would exercise it.
Click to expand...

I guess I don't understand what you're trying to say. That we should all burn Korans to shove it in people's face?

What most of us are saying is that it wasn't a nice thing to do. Especially for someone who claims to follow Jesus, and is in a position to teach people how to do so. It's not a very Christian way of acting, IMO.
 
Mikeyy said:
I am pointing out that people like General Patraeus have condemned Jones. Why? Does the genearl not believe in his rights? Ofcourse not. The General lives in reality. He understands he has people to protect and a situation he is trying to control. Most people get that Jones is a pubixity seeker who doesn't care what sort of violence he stirs up. You like the rest of us should condemn his ignorance. It doesn't mean you are denying him his free speech.
Click to expand...

Just because a bunch of people agree on something that doesn't amount to them being right. Such is an appeal to popularity. And your above is an example of an appeal to authority
 
Last edited:
Mikeyy said:
Not to mention the right has tried to outlaw flag burning on several occasions so they must have felt pretty hurt by it.
Click to expand...

you're now making a Tu quoque argument. If it was moronic to outlaw types of free speech, it would remain moronic regardless if such actions are being taken up by the right or left
 
Again, You spin everything in order to avoid condemning Jones without reservation. It makes one wonder again if you might want to join him in his Koran burning.
ManofthPeephole said:
Just because a bunch of people agree on something that doesn't amount to them being right
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom