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EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

I was saying it was unreasonable because its force, I hate losing freedom, and its not the business of the government to care about car technology. How far in the future the force is or if it really forces anyone to change doesn't change the fact that they banned something that no one can ever make or us again...ever after 2050.

I was saying the battery tech was not going to go anywhere because we have been trying to improve battery tech for fourty years and has made almost zero progress. I hardly see this new tech worth anything either.
 
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Henrin said:
I was saying the battery tech was not going to go anywhere because we have been trying to improve battery tech for fourty years and has made almost zero progress. I hardly see this new tech worth anything either.
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What? There have been significant increases to battery technology over the past fouty years. Even just looking at rechargables there have been advancements with regards to new materials being used for it, and then improvements within the new categories those new materials have created (from lead acid ones to a variety of nickel to lithium ion). They've also been decreasing in size and weight and better at reducing discharge rates. Look at the cell phone battery of the old motorola original flips compared to the Li-ion slabs of today. Look at the old prototype eletric cars that had to slap dozens of old car batteries together to power it compared to what is found in them in the modern day. Battery tech has most assuredly advanced over the past 40 years, and with the various research going on is on the path as most electronics are where the increase and evolution is exponential in levels. When you make such patentedly false claims such as them having made zero progress in improving battery tech in 40 years it makes your entire argument and your basis for where you're speaking from look completely and utterly ignorant of relaity.
 
PeteEU said:
And if I buy something "big", then it really has to be big not fit into the car.. and then again most places where you buy "big items" have delivery services that often are free.
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I've yet to find a delivery service that will deliver my boat to the boat launch for 5am sharp. When I bought the boat, as soon as I signed the paperwork, the rest was up to me. I can't seem to find a dealership who'll tow my boat for me.
 
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Zyphlin said:
Yep, which is essentially my point.

If people would step out of their partisan box for half a second and honestly and objectively look at the advancement with regards to electric vehicles from 1991 to 2011 they'd notice there's been massive improvement. Research some of the things going on in different labs with regards to various battery technology, such as the one you posted Whovian, and you'll see there's a lot of potential for improvement on the horizon.

In 1994 my old AST computer had a 100 Mhz Pentium Processor, 16 MB of RAM, with I think a 10 gig hard drive and ran us about $1200 with monitor. That was relatively "high end" at that point in time.

4 years later in a tiny miniture laptop package I was able to buy a computer with double the Processing speed and the same amount of RAM for half of that price.

Less than 20 years later I can purchase a phone with two processors both running 10 times as fast as that original computer, that has more than 60 times the RAM of that ATS comp, and has a tiny card smaller than a penny in it that has three times as much memory as that original HD and I can buy the whole thing for $149.

Techonlogy expands by leaps and bounds while prices drop and size reduces. There's absolutely no logical reason when one looks at other forms of technology, when one looks at the work being done in the field of batteries, and when one looks at the progression of electric vehicles to honestly suggest that its unlikely that many of the deficiencies with electric vehicles currently aren't likely going to be significantly improved in 20 years let alone 40.
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They can give electric cars range and conforts or anything else they want but I wouldn't even consider one until I have seen real world crash results of not only new models but older models.

What happens in a roll over or a hard crash to the batteries. DO the batteries still have acid in them and if so, I wouldn't want to be in an upside down car with the batteries over my head.

My niece crashed her car by herself off a mountain road and she was stuck in the car for 3 hours. What would happen if a battery was breached and you couldn't get out of your car?

Too many questions still unanswered.
 
Mason66 said:
They can give electric cars range and conforts or anything else they want but I wouldn't even consider one until I have seen real world crash results of not only new models but older models.

What happens in a roll over or a hard crash to the batteries. DO the batteries still have acid in them and if so, I wouldn't want to be in an upside down car with the batteries over my head.

My niece crashed her car by herself off a mountain road and she was stuck in the car for 3 hours. What would happen if a battery was breached and you couldn't get out of your car?

Too many questions still unanswered.
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Im not sure if its the 'aliens' spit in your face melt the ship hull when they bleed kindof acid.
 
Gill said:
No, the reason there are no cars that get 70 mpg is that few people want to drive around in a shoebox that holds two people and one small bag of groceries. Right up the road from me, there is a car dealer selling SmartCars. They look like a roller skate on four wheels. I saw a crash test of one that got hit by a Honda Accord. It wasn't a pretty picture.
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The Smart 4-2 gets better safety figures than a Dodge Caliber. Just saying.

HOME | Euro NCAP - For safer cars crash test safety rating
 
SE102 said:
Im not sure if its the 'aliens' spit in your face melt the ship hull when they bleed kindof acid.
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What other kind is there?
 
Mason66 said:
By who?

If you have seen a crash test you will see the car fly when it is hit.

There is no way it can get a high safety rating.

Common sense tells us that.
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Hit by what and how fast? A 3 ton truck? if so then ANY car will go flying!

The Smart car would not be allowed on European roads if it was not safe, and European safety standards > US safety standards.
 
Jetboogieman said:
This actually isn't JUST about being Green.

European cities in general, were built long before the advent of the Motor Vehicle. As more and more cars hit the roads in European countries, cities are pushed to the limit in congestion.

Cities like London simply cannot handle the amount of cars that plow through it every day.
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Many American cities were also built before the invention of the automobile too. However most cities in American adapt,widen streets, build highways and sometimes use Eminent Domain(also known as compulsory purchase, resumption/compulsory acquisition or expropriation in other countries) to do it.


I support this measure.

We have to change the way we do things. Sorry but we do.

Those who want to live in the past. Enjoy it. History will leave you behind.
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Isn't hanging onto the past why many of these European cities want to ban automobiles by 2050 in cities?
 
jamesrage said:
Many American cities were also built before the invention of the automobile too. However most cities in American adapt,widen streets, build highways and sometimes use Eminent Domain(also known as compulsory purchase, resumption/compulsory acquisition or expropriation in other countries) to do it.



Isn't hanging onto the past why many of these European cities want to ban automobiles by 2050 in cities?
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I don't understand the argument that European cities were built before the advent of cars.

Do they mean there is a dome over each city thereby trapping the emmissions?

That is the only thing that could be relevant. A car is no wider than a horse drawn carriage, especially the micro cars most Europeans drive.
 
Mason66 said:
By who?

If you have seen a crash test you will see the car fly when it is hit.

There is no way it can get a high safety rating.

Common sense tells us that.
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Well, I linked to the authority, the body that undertakes all crash-test investigation in the EU. The EuroNCAP rating is the only accepted safety standard for new cars and every new car sold in the EU has to carry its rating. I think the Smart's high ratings come from the strength of its crush zones, which isn't terribly surprising given that Smarts are mini Mercedes. Dodge, after all, are Chryslers.
 
jamesrage said:
Many American cities were also built before the invention of the automobile too. However most cities in American adapt,widen streets, build highways and sometimes use Eminent Domain(also known as compulsory purchase, resumption/compulsory acquisition or expropriation in other countries) to do it.
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This debate kind of rests on how you want you cities to look and the kind of lifestyle the inhabitants of those cities want to live. Most Europeans would be unhappy for their historic city centres (in many cases 1,000 years old+) to be bulldozed in order to make way for cars. Some have done this, but generally they wouldn't be cities American tourists would have much interest in visiting - check out Birmingham, Rotterdam, Genoa. If you call the preservation of historic architectural and archaeological treasures 'hanging onto the past', then yes, this would be a major factor in seeking to break the stranglehold of the ICE on mass transport solutions.


Mason66 said:
I don't understand the argument that European cities were built before the advent of cars.

Do they mean there is a dome over each city thereby trapping the emmissions?
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Ask any environmental scientist, narrow streets trap air and all that is contained in it.

That is the only thing that could be relevant. A car is no wider than a horse drawn carriage, especially the micro cars most Europeans drive.
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You think that in pre-automobile days horse-drawn carriages were congesting all the streets that cars do today? Carriages were the exclusive preserve of the rich. In most cities the standard transport was two feet or, if you had a bit of money, the four feet of a mule or donkey.

Of course, you're right, we Europeans do tend to drive smaller cars than Americans, but then again, so do the Japanese, Koreans, Chinese and most other nations.
 
Touching on the preservation of history, as a European visiting San Antonio, I was amazed to find a glass panel in the middle of the pavement/sidewalk showing a section of the original front wall of the Alamo compound. The amazing part was that it is across the street from the famous frontage. They bulldozed a four-lane dual carriageway road through the front yard of Texas' most iconic building! It's not ike they have much history to waste...
As for driving smaller cars, they fit the landscape...
 
Andalublue said:
Well, I linked to the authority, the body that undertakes all crash-test investigation in the EU. The EuroNCAP rating is the only accepted safety standard for new cars and every new car sold in the EU has to carry its rating. I think the Smart's high ratings come from the strength of its crush zones, which isn't terribly surprising given that Smarts are mini Mercedes. Dodge, after all, are Chryslers.
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They can put a high rating on the car if they want to but I would not want to be in the Smart if it hit anything.

Just watch the two videos.

The car goes flying when it hits something which will cause the secondary damage to the human body.

In a normal car the damage happens when the body goes from 55 MPH to 0 but inthe Smart it goes from 55 MHP to 0 then flipped backwards.

Not for me, thanks.
 
Mason66 said:
They can put a high rating on the car if they want to but I would not want to be in the Smart if it hit anything.

Just watch the two videos.

The car goes flying when it hits something which will cause the secondary damage to the human body.

In a normal car the damage happens when the body goes from 55 MPH to 0 but inthe Smart it goes from 55 MHP to 0 then flipped backwards.

Not for me, thanks.
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Seriously.. you have gone from "it is a horrible car because it is unsafe according to experts" to "not for me" when you find out that it not only passed safety checks but did well in them.

Face it, you opinion is not based on facts but based on one or two videos that look bad in your eyes. Go drive your truck that explodes on impact or/and flips over at medium speeds in a corner.
 
Amazed said:
Cars will be banned from London and all other cities across Europe under a draconian EU masterplan to cut CO2 emissions by 60 per cent over the next 40 years. The plan also envisages an end to cheap holiday flights from Britain to southern Europe with a target that over 50 per cent of all journeys above 186 miles should be by rail.

Top of the EU's list to cut climate change emissions is a target of "zero" for the number of petrol and diesel-driven cars and lorries in the EU's future cities.

Siim Kallas, the EU transport commission, insisted that Brussels directives and new taxation of fuel would be used to force people out of their cars and onto "alternative" means of transport.

"That means no more conventionally fuelled cars in our city centres," he said. "Action will follow, legislation, real action to change behaviour."

EU to ban cars from cities by 2050 - Telegraph

You Greenies....just aren't to bright.

Back to the horse and bggy days for you, leave the rest of us alone.
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My question is, how will they know cars will emit CO2 in 2050?

Another idiotic idea from the Green Shirts.

.
 
zimmer said:
My question is, how will they know cars will emit CO2 in 2050?

Another idiotic idea from the Green Shirts.

.
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If the cars aren't running on petrol/diesel, then they're not banned. And there's no way to stop cars emitting CO2 if they're burning hydrocarbons.
 
Bruce said:
If the cars aren't running on petrol/diesel, then they're not banned. And there's no way to stop cars emitting CO2 if they're burning hydrocarbons.
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Put a balloon over the exhaust pipe.
 
Bruce said:
It's still emitting them, just into the balloon.
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But this way you can make Balloon animals so your recycling the emissions. =)
 
Mason66 said:
They can put a high rating on the car if they want to but I would not want to be in the Smart if it hit anything.

Just watch the two videos.

The car goes flying when it hits something which will cause the secondary damage to the human body.

In a normal car the damage happens when the body goes from 55 MPH to 0 but inthe Smart it goes from 55 MHP to 0 then flipped backwards.

Not for me, thanks.
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Rough translation: "I don't like small cars and I don't like the look of this one, so crash test results be damned."
 
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