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EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

PeteEU said:
LOL seriously. You can say that of any car..want me to find the exploding GM truck you-tube videos? As for safety.. the Smart car in the US has gotten high marks for safety.
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Sure, would love to see these videos you claim. Wait, you're not talking about the crash video that NBC rigged with explosives so that it would burn are you ??? Surely not.

My 10 year old car can hold 4 people plus what I need at the store. I dont need a freaking truck to carry toilet paper home. And if I buy something "big", then it really has to be big not fit into the car.. and then again most places where you buy "big items" have delivery services that often are free. I can fit a 40 inch LED tv in my car.. does that count as "big" stuff?
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No, that's not even close to being "big" stuff. This weekend I'm going to buy 10 sheets of 1/2" 4' x 8' drywall, a couple dozen 2" x 4" studs, and 6 80# bags of concrete mix. Will your car haul that ?? That's not counting the 28' and 16' ladders that are always on my truck.

And no, no one around here will deliver for free. :roll:

Also a "Smart" car is one of the smallest cars out there and is hardly representative of the average European car. Yes the average European car is "smaller" than the average US car, but I would rather have a smaller safer car than a gas guzzling hog that costs me a fortune to run.

You do know, that with your attitude, you have lost any right and credibility to complain about high gas prices right?
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Well, I'm glad you are happy driving a roller skate. Leaves more gas for the rest of us that have to drive real trucks.
 
European politics at it finest, it amazes me the Europeans keep failing, yet never seem to get off on another road. Global warming and Green is a joke, it's been broke already Europe.
 
Well...geeee...except that nobody can tell us what the "next" mode will be ;)


Kandahar said:
Seems like they left out a small detail in that headline. :roll:



The notion that the eventual replacement of the automobile will mean a reversion to the past is profoundly stupid. Are you so unimaginative that you think the automobile is the best possible form of transportation, and nothing better could ever be developed?
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Amazed said:
Well...geeee...except that nobody can tell us what the "next" mode will be ;)
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I'm pretty sure they clarified that it would be electric cars and high-speed rails. At least for now. What's the problem with that?

DontDoIt said:
European politics at it finest, it amazes me the Europeans keep failing, yet never seem to get off on another road. Global warming and Green is a joke, it's been broke already Europe.
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Failing at what? And how are we doing better? Last I saw, we are as broke if not more, our education system was nothing to be impressed with, and our health care system was the most expensive and while not being the most effective. Maybe you should focus on fixing our country before you critique their continent. :)
 
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Gill said:
High speed rails inside cities ???
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High-speed rails would obviously be for long-distance travel. Many of them have trams or subways for local travel, and again, I thought it was clarified that use of electric cars would be fine as well (but correct me if I am wrong). Basically, they are saying:

1) We want to phase out oil use as much as possible.
2) Oh wait, that's all they were saying.

What's wrong with that?
 
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You fail to understand that this is exactly what the greenies want...and I am free to voice my opinion in any manner I choose ;)

In this case common sense prevailed.....and common sense has NEVER been a strong suit of any greenie.

Infinite Chaos said:
It always pays to double check a story before posting it and then posturing and lecturing others...

Firstly the plan bny those who back it is to cut down on conventional petrol and diesel engined vehicles only... secondly the UK rejected the plan yesterday and thirdly it's just a proposal at the moment, it's not a law and it's not being imposed on anyone.
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Failing at what? And how are we doing better? Last I saw, we are as broke if not more, our education system was nothing to be impressed with, and our health care system was the most expensive and while not being the most effective. Maybe you should focus on fixing our country before you critique their continent. :)
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Well considering the thread in on EU, we should probably focus on them now shouldn't we? Anyway, back the matter of focus, the United States finanical crisis is bad obviously, but not to the extent of the EU, as they have already recieved bailouts of a greater extent than what has been provided in the US. EU is honestly on a verge of a finanical crisis and a total economic failure collapse, the United States is in recession, quite a difference. Perhaps this article will update you on just how bad it is in the EU at this point.

Will Financial Problems In Portugal Cause The European Debt Crisis To Spiral Out Of Control?

Now compare that with the US, it's not even close. I hate when people moan and groan about how it's so rough here in America, take a second and realize what you have an maybe be thankful for just a moment.
 
Electric Cars have at best been a red herring for those who INSIST that we are destroying our environment.

They are not selling, they won't because people don't want them.......

Now.....

1) Do you own an electric car?
2) Do you support Gov regulation mandating what an American can, or can't drive?

whysoserious said:
Electric cars don't exist?
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Amazed said:
Electric Cars have at best been a red herring for those who INSIST that we are destroying our environment.
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Umm are you suggesting that we aren't? That putting a bunch of crap into the air from our exhaust pipes isn't harmful? Try going to Los Angeles for a while. ;)

Amazed said:
They are not selling, they won't because people don't want them.
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Right, but we're talking about 2050, not next year. In the evolution of all successful, convenient products, there was a time when they were not successful or convenient. It's absurd to think that the same limitations that exist today will still be a problem in 40 years.

Amazed said:
Now.....

1) Do you own an electric car?
2) Do you support Gov regulation mandating what an American can, or can't drive?
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1) No
2) Yes
 
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DontDoIt said:
Well considering the thread in on EU, we should probably focus on them now shouldn't we? Anyway, back the matter of focus, the United States finanical crisis is bad obviously, but not to the extent of the EU, as they have already recieved bailouts of a greater extent than what has been provided in the US. EU is honestly on a verge of a finanical crisis and a total economic failure collapse, the United States is in recession, quite a difference. Perhaps this article will update you on just how bad it is in the EU at this point.

Will Financial Problems In Portugal Cause The European Debt Crisis To Spiral Out Of Control?

Now compare that with the US, it's not even close. I hate when people moan and groan about how it's so rough here in America, take a second and realize what you have an maybe be thankful for just a moment.
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The financial collapse dot com? May have an a priori motive in their editorial output judging the name, no?
 
DontDoIt said:
Well considering the thread in on EU, we should probably focus on them now shouldn't we?
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Yup, common sense tells us a thread on Europe invites opinion on matters pertaining to Europe... and if the thread is about cars in European cities it's plain sense to discuss cars in European cities......

DontDoIt said:
Anyway, back the matter of focus, the United States finanical crisis is bad obviously, but not to the extent of the EU, as they have already recieved bailouts of a greater extent than what has been provided in the US. EU is honestly on a verge of a finanical crisis and a total economic failure collapse, the United States is in recession, quite a difference. Perhaps this article will update you on just how bad it is in the EU at this point --
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So in other words, you really just want to talk about the US on a thread about Europe.... :doh

Amazed said:
You fail to understand that this is exactly what the greenies want...and I am free to voice my opinion in any manner I choose ;)

In this case common sense prevailed.....and common sense has NEVER been a strong suit of any greenie.
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So, you didn't double check your story, had your mistakes pointed out to you and it makes no difference - you still want to make the wrong point on the wrong thread.

Oh boy... :doh
 
The story was real, and continues to be what the greenies want.....you do comprehend that, don't you?

Infinite Chaos said:
Yup, common sense tells us a thread on Europe invites opinion on matters pertaining to Europe... and if the thread is about cars in European cities it's plain sense to discuss cars in European cities......



So in other words, you really just want to talk about the US on a thread about Europe.... :doh



So, you didn't double check your story, had your mistakes pointed out to you and it makes no difference - you still want to make the wrong point on the wrong thread.

Oh boy... :doh
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Infinite Chaos said:
Yup, common sense tells us a thread on Europe invites opinion on matters pertaining to Europe... and if the thread is about cars in European cities it's plain sense to discuss cars in European cities......
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Well considering they were talking about the US I had to, lets not be ridiculous
 
Why do people keep bringing up that it will only ban fossil fuel cars like somehow that makes it worthy of support?

Its still liberty out the window last I checked.
 
Henrin said:
Why do people keep bringing up that it will only ban fossil fuel cars like somehow that makes it worthy of support?

Its still liberty out the window last I checked.
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Personally I dont want to ban fossil fuels.. but I do want to put high taxes on so that we can find alternatives quicker. Like it or not, oil prices will go up and up, and as of now the US population has not hit the "hurt" point for when they are demanding better fuel mileage and alternative fuel methods. That is why, I believe that government should be brave enough to think of the future and find any and all solutions in the near term rather than let the market slam us with it when suddenly oil is at 200 dollars a barrel and we have zero solution to the problem.
 
PeteEU said:
Personally I dont want to ban fossil fuels.. but I do want to put high taxes on so that we can find alternatives quicker. Like it or not, oil prices will go up and up, and as of now the US population has not hit the "hurt" point for when they are demanding better fuel mileage and alternative fuel methods. That is why, I believe that government should be brave enough to think of the future and find any and all solutions in the near term rather than let the market slam us with it when suddenly oil is at 200 dollars a barrel and we have zero solution to the problem.
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The government being brave line is annoying first off. It isn't about bravely, nor is it ever. The government doing something is never about it bravely to do it, no, its only about its willingless to do it. Taxing something to bring in the money is something they're all but willing to do, bringing in a solution that they can choose and control is again all but something they are willing to do, avoiding a problem that they created is again something that they are all but willing to do. Bravely doesn't mean what you are implying and I would like it very much if you stopped using it in such ways.

Second, the hurt point language is statist talk bull****. I don't want my actions decided on how much I'm forced to do it. I want to have the freedom to do what I want when I want, and not have to deal with someone taxing me because they don't approve of what I'm doing and would like it if I changed it. IF people want altertatives they can fund the research, start the business, and profit off it. If they don't and just want to enjoy the life we have now, so be it. We don't need government researching projects, forcing actions, punishing people, all for their goals.
 
Henrin said:
The government being brave line is annoying first off. It isn't about bravely, nor is it ever. The government doing something is never about it bravely to do it, no, its only about its willingless to do it.
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So you are saying, that a government that stands up to big business and says "stuff you" and forces regulation that improves mileage and many other things for the average citizen is not brave? In the US it would be the right thing to do but it would be political suicide, and hence brave. I would think that any government that improves the lives of its citizens despite certain powerful aspects of society saying no, is brave as hell to even try so.

Taxing something to bring in the money is something they're all but willing to do, bringing in a solution that they can choose and control is again all but something they are willing to do, avoiding a problem that they created is again something that they are all but willing to do. Bravely doesn't mean what you are implying and I would like it very much if you stopped using it in such ways.
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Free speech.. suck it up. I am 100% correct. Your political establishment is in the pockets of big business that in no way what so ever would want better mileage or regulation that benefits consumers. Hell they are fighting to get rid of the EPA and other regulators, just so they can screw over the population even more.

So yes ANY government that stands up to big business is brave as hell.

Second, the hurt point language is statist talk bull****. I don't want my actions decided on how much I'm forced to do it. I want to have the freedom to do what I want when I want, and not have to deal with someone taxing me because they don't approve of what I'm doing and would like it if I changed it. IF people want altertatives they can fund the research, start the business, and profit off it. If they don't and just want to enjoy the life we have now, so be it. We don't need government researching projects, forcing actions, punishing people, all for their goals.
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LOL you seriously live on another planet then. No one is forcing you not to have a gas guzzling truck.. you just have to pay top dollar to have one, because you with your arrogance and selfishness are contributing relatively more to pollution, road damage and so on. Not to mention that people like you are one of the main reasons that the US has gone from 16 miles per gallon average mileage to 22 miles per gallon in 30+ years.... free market my ass.

Also much research would not even happen if it was not for government funding in one way or another. The US would never have gone to the moon if it was not for government funding. The Internet would not be around if it was not for government funding. The list goes on and on.

The point is that in Europe in the late 1970s the politicians decided after one of the worst oil crisis ever, that European countries would not be hit as hard again. Hence they put in mandatory mileage requirements and have raised them year after year. Sure the car companies complained and still do, but if they want to sell cars in Europe, then they need to innovate and improve their cars. No way in HELL they would have done that on their own with 20 dollar a barrel oil or even 100 dollar a barrel oil. The profit margins on providing ****ty low mileage cars would be too great. I am very glad that my politicians said "stuff you" to the oil and car companies and that now my 10 year old VW goes double the average mileage of the average modern day American car. It saves me a ton of money every year... and that is what it is all about.. not how many cup holders or people with fat asses that can be in a car or if the rims look cool or not.
 
Henrin said:
Why do people keep bringing up that it will only ban fossil fuel cars like somehow that makes it worthy of support?

Its still liberty out the window last I checked.
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Cities in Europe generally have several hundred years of history going on, in streets clogged with far too much traffic they were never designed for. Transit times in London, for example, have gone down in the last hundred years. Having a "congestion zone" with a tax for using the city centre has helped a little, but an outright ban on fossil fuel cars will have many benefits for everyone from drivers to people who like to breathe. There is no right to drive, so there is no loss of liberty.
 
apdst said:
Right! So, let's progress forward to the 15th Century.
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I think its about pushing toward the 22nd century. We Americans should try some of this as well, and stop of fixation with the 20th century. I am not sure what the objection is to a shift to electric cars, our dependance on gasoline hasn't worked out all that well as of late.

The transit system in Europe, particularly inter-city trains is impressive.
 
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