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U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed Air

dontworrybehappy

dontworrybehappy

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Six Libyan villagers are recovering in hospital after being shot by American soldiers coming in to rescue the U.S. pilots whose plane crash-landed in a field.

The helicopter strafed the ground as it landed in a field outside Benghazi beside the downed U.S. Air Force F-15E Eagle which ran into trouble during bombing raid last night.

And a handful of locals who had come to greet the pilots were hit - among them a young boy who may have to have a leg amputated because of injuries caused by a bullet wound.

Read more: Libya war: US chopper shoots 6 villagers who welcomed Air Force F-15 crash pilots | Mail Online
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Libya war: US chopper shoots 6 villagers who welcomed Air Force F-15 crash pilots | Mail Online

Very unfortunate, but you don't approach a downed US pilot during a military operation. Even with good intentions.
 
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Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

until we hear more specifics, we won't know if the crew of the chopper could have/should have showed more restraint. I will therefore reserve judgment for the moment.
 
Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

Yea I know, that's why I didn't judge anything. Just stated that walking up to a downed airman in a combat zone isn't smart. When a rescue chopper comes in to get you they're trying to protect your life. Had they NOT shot and this pilot get injured or killed right in front of the rescue chopper, we would never hear the end of it. They erred on the side of caution. It's like BOTH sides did nothing wrong.
 
Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

Terrible things happen sometimes, especially in war. I hope the injured villagers recover and that this experience doesn't cast a shadow over their view of us.

It's ridiculous to blame the villagers for their injuries, however. They saw someone in distress and tried to come to his aid. If they'd retrieved the pilot before the helicopter had arrived, this story would have had a happy ending.
 
Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

Isn't it a cardinal sin to not have identified your target before you shoot...should at least figure out if your target is armed/hostile before one pulls the trigger?
 
Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

I'm sure the pilot figured out that the villagers were Libyans converging on the person he was attempting to rescue. Given the circumstances, he had no way of determining whether they were friendly or hostile, so he erred on the side of caution. I'm sure he feels terrible about this, but he'd feel far worse if they'd been hostile and he allowed them to reach the downed pilot.
 
Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

Viktyr Korimir said:
I'm sure the pilot figured out that the villagers were Libyans converging on the person he was attempting to rescue. Given the circumstances, he had no way of determining whether they were friendly or hostile, so he erred on the side of caution. I'm sure he feels terrible about this, but he'd feel far worse if they'd been hostile and he allowed them to reach the downed pilot.
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Guess I just have a different opinion on what caution means. For me erring on the side of caution would be to identify your target before you shoot, not shoot first ask questions later.
 
Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

Viktyr Korimir said:
Terrible things happen sometimes, especially in war. I hope the injured villagers recover and that this experience doesn't cast a shadow over their view of us.

It's ridiculous to blame the villagers for their injuries, however. They saw someone in distress and tried to come to his aid. If they'd retrieved the pilot before the helicopter had arrived, this story would have had a happy ending.
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I agree... and I imagine they didn't have guns since they are described as "villagers" not rebels.

If they had guns and were mistaken, that would be different... It just doesn't seem right that the soldiers would open fire on anybody in the area.
 
Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

The U.S. Military is denying that this happened at all. They know that two bombs were dropped on two armored vehicles headed for the pilot. They are denying reports that anyone fired at civilians. Maybe we ought to take a wait-and-see attitude here. It wouldn't surprise me much of this were all propaganda. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/23/world/africa/23plane.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
 
Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

A report on TV just showed that those injured are not holding a grudge over being hurt. So that's a good thing.
 
Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

dontworrybehappy said:
Libya war: US chopper shoots 6 villagers who welcomed Air Force F-15 crash pilots | Mail Online

Very unfortunate, but you don't approach a downed US pilot during a military operation. Even with good intentions.
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On another thread you're calling the Libyan operation illegal, suggesting that it's an impeachable offense because Obama didn't get authorization from Congress; and here, you're all nonchalant about a few innocent civilians supposedly killed by US troops. Could you focus, please? Either you're faux outraged over the war, or you're a cold war hawk. You can't be both. Make up your mind.
 
Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

Sgt Meowenstein said:
On another thread you're calling the Libyan operation illegal, suggesting that it's an impeachable offense because Obama didn't get authorization from Congress; and here, you're all nonchalant about a few innocent civilians supposedly killed by US troops. Could you focus, please? Either you're faux outraged over the war, or you're a cold war hawk. You can't be both. Make up your mind.
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Did you even read the OP link? Obviously not. :roll:
 
Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

Sgt Meowenstein said:
On another thread you're calling the Libyan operation illegal, suggesting that it's an impeachable offense because Obama didn't get authorization from Congress; and here, you're all nonchalant about a few innocent civilians supposedly killed by US troops. Could you focus, please? Either you're faux outraged over the war, or you're a cold war hawk. You can't be both. Make up your mind.
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Or maybe he understands the difference between opposition to the war and opposition to the realities of war. I'm against our involvement as well, but that doesn't mean I'm going to cry crocodile tears over every possible incident that paints our involvement in a negative light.
 
Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

images
 
Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

dontworrybehappy said:
Did you even read the OP link? Obviously not. :roll:
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I'm not sure what the OP link has to do with your own faux outrage and inconsistencies.
 
Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

Sgt Meowenstein said:
I'm not sure what the OP link has to do with your own faux outrage and inconsistencies.
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Because **** happens in war.
 
Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

MaggieD said:
The U.S. Military is denying that this happened at all. They know that two bombs were dropped on two armored vehicles headed for the pilot. They are denying reports that anyone fired at civilians. Maybe we ought to take a wait-and-see attitude here. It wouldn't surprise me much of this were all propaganda. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/23/world/africa/23plane.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
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good, let's hope this is the case.
 
Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

StillBallin75 said:
Guess I just have a different opinion on what caution means. For me erring on the side of caution would be to identify your target before you shoot, not shoot first ask questions later.
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Sad fact in War that likely gets lost in the giltz and glamor of hollywood, the PC world we live in, and us arm chair quarterback civilians is that moral equivilancy goes out the window. You see one of your men down there and your primary focus is keeping him safe. Now does that mean you open fire on a bunch of citizens coming towards him? Of course not. You go to all lengths you possibly can to discern a threat. However, if you're unable to be certain one way or another and you get to a point where you have to either act or gamble with his life...I can't blame a soldier for acting.

For all of us civilians who want to boo hoo it and cry foul and say how horrible of a monster he is an the american soldiers life wasn't any more important than the villagers....you tell me that if given a situation where you think there's a 50/50 shot that a loved one is about to be killed if you don't shoot the people coming towards them and you reach that point of no return that you'd honestly gamble on your loved ones life rather than taking the shot?

As much as we all like to put ourselves on these huge moral pedestals and act like everythings equal, we do so hypocritical blind of reality even within our own lives let alone what the realities of War are. Its stuff like this that ultimately I think all the coverage we have these days is a bad thing because I gurantee that stuff like this wasn't any less common, if not more common, in the wars of old.

Would I like these situations to not occur? Of course. And do I hope that the military does an internal investigation to be sure the guy did attempt to discern intent and get a clear understanding of the target first up until a point requiring action? Absolutely. But if its determined this did happen and the pilot tried his best to get a clear understanding of the target and was finally put into a situation where his best judgement was that there was still a strong possability that the soldiers life was at risk, then I do not blame him for that action.
 
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Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

Viktyr Korimir said:
Or maybe he understands the difference between opposition to the war and opposition to the realities of war. I'm against our involvement as well, but that doesn't mean I'm going to cry crocodile tears over every possible incident that paints our involvement in a negative light.
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You are correct.

I opposed it completely at first, then I supported us stopping this madman from killing his own people, but I do not support a full occupation.

That, and had he actually READ the article, he would have known that "shot" does not equal "dead" and that NOBODY was killed. But instead he says "allegedly killed" making it quite obvious he didn't even read a damn thing.
 
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Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

Zyphlin said:
Sad fact in War that likely gets lost in the giltz and glamor of hollywood, the PC world we live in, and us arm chair quarterback civilians is that moral equivilancy goes out the window. You see one of your men down there and your primary focus is keeping him safe. Now does that mean you open fire on a bunch of citizens coming towards him? Of course not. You go to all lengths you possibly can to discern a threat. However, if you're unable to be certain one way or another and you get to a point where you have to either act or gamble with his life...I can't blame a soldier for acting.

For all of us civilians who want to boo hoo it and cry foul and say how horrible of a monster he is an the american soldiers life wasn't any more important than the villagers....you tell me that if given a situation where you think there's a 50/50 shot that a loved one is about to be killed if you don't shoot the people coming towards them and you reach that point of no return that you'd honestly gamble on your loved ones life rather than taking the shot?

As much as we all like to put ourselves on these huge moral pedestals and act like everythings equal, we do so hypocritical blind of reality even within our own lives let alone what the realities of War are. Its stuff like this that ultimately I think all the coverage we have these days is a bad thing because I gurantee that stuff like this wasn't any less common, if not more common, in the wars of old.

Would I like these situations to not occur? Of course. And do I hope that the military does an internal investigation to be sure the guy did attempt to discern intent and get a clear understanding of the target first up until a point requiring action? Absolutely. But if its determined this did happen and the pilot tried his best to get a clear understanding of the target and was finally put into a situation where his best judgement was that there was still a strong possability that the soldiers life was at risk, then I do not blame him for that action.
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I'm the last person that needs to be told that war is hell and that **** happens, but the rules of engagement are pretty clear on the need to identify your target first. If this actually happened (which the military is denying right now) I agree that an investigation is needed. Just because we recognize that **** happens in war doesn't give anyone the excuse to not exercise extreme prejudice when pulling the trigger.
 
Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

StillBallin75 said:
I'm the last person that needs to be told that war is hell and that **** happens, but the rules of engagement are pretty clear on the need to identify your target first. If this actually happened (which the military is denying right now) I agree that an investigation is needed. Just because we recognize that **** happens in war doesn't give anyone the excuse to not exercise extreme prejudice when pulling the trigger.
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Like I said, I don't disagree with the idea that you need to identify your target. However, things don't always work like in a simulation. If he saw them, took a second to try and figure it out, and then just started shooting...absolutely I agree with you. However, if he tried to identify the targets to the best of his ability and was not able to by the time the situation required that he either act or gamble on the life of hte soldier, then that is where we seem to part ways.

Your seem to fall on the side that if you can't identify them by that point you gamble with the soldiers life and hope that they're friendly. I fall on teh side that if you can't identify them by that point you gamble on their lives and hope that they're not friendly. In both cases I think we agree that first and foremost attempts should be made to identify the target and their intent.
 
Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

Zyphlin said:
Like I said, I don't disagree with the idea that you need to identify your target. However, things don't always work like in a simulation. If he saw them, took a second to try and figure it out, and then just started shooting...absolutely I agree with you. However, if he tried to identify the targets to the best of his ability and was not able to by the time the situation required that he either act or gamble on the life of hte soldier, then that is where we seem to part ways.

Your seem to fall on the side that if you can't identify them by that point you gamble with the soldiers life and hope that they're friendly. I fall on teh side that if you can't identify them by that point you gamble on their lives and hope that they're not friendly. In both cases I think we agree that first and foremost attempts should be made to identify the target and their intent.
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You can't read minds. How many soldiers have been blown up in Iraq by innocent looking people with bombs on their belts? Approaching unknowns are hostiles in a combat zone. A pilot that has gone down in hostile territory should not be approached at all. Unless they can be absolutely proven to be harmless, which would only be something accomplished after interrogating them, I feel that the soldier did the right thing. Hindsight is always 20-20.
 
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Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

Apocalypse said:
They couldn't know that. It's neither the fault of them nor the fault of the soldiers, it's a tragic mistake.
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I think we can all remember, and I'm sure the military does, what happened to two American servicemen who were captured by 'civilians' in Iraq. They were dragged through the streets and their bodies hung from bridges, while the locals laughed and jeered.

The problem in much of the Muslim world as that nobody really knows who is a 'civilian' and who is not. Witness the most recent bombing of innocents bombed in Jerusalem. I doubt that perpetrator wore any identifying markings.

As well, innocent civilians have been decapitated by terrorists and have later shown the act on video, and none of these despicable wore anything which identified them for who they were. Shoot first, and when word gets around people will learn that it is best to stay clear.
 
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