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Judge issues temporary order barring public union law's implementation

The Giant Noodle said:
Not that I believe you, but what are they specifically?
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Every state has its own Constitution which could well limit what right wing zealots who have temporarily controlled the legislature can do. For example, in Michigan here where I live, we have home rule language in our Constitution allowing locally elected governments to run its own internal affairs. Republicans in both houses of the Michigan legislature have passed versions of martial law where elected officials can be removed and dictators installed by the governor. Court challenges based on the State Constitution are inevitable.
 
Deuce said:
The process of issuing permits also takes a long time and always has, but we're derailing pretty good here. Can we at least drop the talking point that the judge's ruling has been "ignored?"
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So it is then, one permit, not permit(s). And given the "complexity" as you put it... consumers shouldn't be holding our breath for cost relief. Obama's a smart guy - he knew what this would do, and I'm sure his advisors identified once a moritorium was issued, how long both politically and operationally it would take to get things up an running again. That means he presumably knew we'd be needing foreign oil for quite a while - probably through a 2nd term if he's re-elected. So given he knew that, what's the motivation here to increase energy costs - not just in crude/gasoline production but with everything?
 
Deuce said:
The process of issuing permits also takes a long time and always has, but we're derailing pretty good here. Can we at least drop the talking point that the judge's ruling has been "ignored?"
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LOL! What's the matter? You are being exposed as foolish for blindly throwing out a talking point, now you want to all of the sudden clear your throat and stick to the topic....I didn't jump on that part until you made the foolish statement you did.

You say that the process takes time, well use your google and take a look through how many extra regulatory agencies now control issuing those permits, as opposed to say 3 years ago...It'll boggle your mind. The one issued is a token to give inane pap to drones.

But if you don't like oil, hell take HC, Dear Leader is ignoring the Florida Judge that issued his ruling on HC.

j-mac
 
haymarket said:
Every state has its own Constitution which could well limit what right wing zealots who have temporarily controlled the legislature can do. For example, in Michigan here where I live, we have home rule language in our Constitution allowing locally elected governments to run its own internal affairs. Republicans in both houses of the Michigan legislature have passed versions of martial law where elected officials can be removed and dictators installed by the governor. Court challenges based on the State Constitution are inevitable.
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Yep, just look at what libs do when in power.


j-mac
 
haymarket said:
Every state has its own Constitution which could well limit what right wing zealots who have temporarily controlled the legislature can do. For example, in Michigan here where I live, we have home rule language in our Constitution allowing locally elected governments to run its own internal affairs. Republicans in both houses of the Michigan legislature have passed versions of martial law where elected officials can be removed and dictators installed by the governor. Court challenges based on the State Constitution are inevitable.
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I think that kind of legislation is needed. Bellwood, Illinois is a little suburb of Chicago.

$472,255 to run a town of 20,000

Village officials can't explain why Roy McCampbell was paid so much to run Bellwood. For running a blue-collar western suburb, taxpayers paid Roy McCampbell $472,255 last year — the highest total compensation of any suburban municipal executive — and village officials now say they're not sure why. McCampbell, known as one of the first suburban officials to push red-light cameras, said he did the work of 10 people for Bellwood — comptroller, administrator, public safety CEO, finance director, budget director, human resources director, mayoral assistant, corporation counsel, property commission director and development corporation officer — and was paid like it.
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A suburban official who claimed 10 job titles at once has seen his retirement checks whittled by pension officials — though the 56-year-old is still getting about $230,000 a year. The Tribune revealed in June that Bellwood had paid its comptroller, Roy McCampbell, $472,255 in 2009, helping him earn a quarter-of-a-million-dollar pension in retirement. The Illinois Municipal Retirement Fund reviewed the pension and last fall knocked about $23,000 from it, the Tribune learned this week.
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Bellwood: Population just over 20,000 people, of which 7% are below the poverty line; per capita income just over $19,000. Yeppers, every state should have legislation like that. State Investigates Quarter Million Dollar Pension in Bellwood - Chicagoist
 
j-mac said:
Yep, just look at what libs do when in power.


j-mac
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First, I saw no examples from you.

Second, Ronald Reagan, patron saint of modern Republicansim, is famous for saying that the most dangerous words in the English language are "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." So we have the less than wonderful situation in Michigan where the acolytes who worship Reagan are now bringing in Big Government to throw out locally elected people and impose dictatorships selected by one man in the State Capitol. The Gipper must be rolling over in his grave. Lincoln famously said that America had "a government of the people, by the people, and for the people". I guess he would not recognize the government that Republicans in the Michigan Legislature has now imposed over this state with the Emergency Manager Law signed into law by Governor Snyder just this week.
 
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haymarket said:
First, I saw no examples from you.

Second, Ronald Reagan, patron saint of modern Republicansim, is famous for saying that the most dangerous words in the English language are "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." So we have the less than wonderful situation in Michigan where the acolytes who worship Reagan are now bringing in Big Government to throw out locally elected people and impose dictatorships selected by one man in the State Capitol. The Gipper must be rolling over in his grave. Lincoln famously said that America had "a government of the people, by the people, and for the people". I guess he would not recognize the government that Republicans in the Michigan Legislature has now imposed over this state.
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Please link to a reliable source with the details of where this has actually happened.
 
haymarket said:
sure... is the WSJ good enough for you?

Michigan Boosts Power to Intervene in Cities - WSJ.com

If that is not up to par for your standards, just do your own google search - this was covered all over the country.
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Odd... I don't see the word 'dictator' anywhere in there.

The law, which the Republican governor signed late Wednesday, beefs up the 1990 Emergency Financial Manager Act by giving a state-appointed manager the power to set aside labor contracts, fire local officials and even dissolve a community or school district.

"The goal is to allow the state to intervene at an earlier stage, so an emergency financial manager can be avoided altogether," Mr. Snyder said in a statement. "If, however, an emergency manager is needed, then they need the tools to properly address these challenges."
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So, this has been around since 1990, and you're whining about it now?

This sounds like an excellent idea.

Here's the 1990 law... you might want to actually read it before you continue to whine like a little girl.
TREASURY - How a Financial Emergency Works

BTW, that 1990 law was signed by John Blanchard, a Democrat.
 
haymarket said:
First, I saw no examples from you.

Second, Ronald Reagan, patron saint of modern Republicansim, is famous for saying that the most dangerous words in the English language are "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." So we have the less than wonderful situation in Michigan where the acolytes who worship Reagan are now bringing in Big Government to throw out locally elected people and impose dictatorships selected by one man in the State Capitol. The Gipper must be rolling over in his grave. Lincoln famously said that America had "a government of the people, by the people, and for the people". I guess he would not recognize the government that Republicans in the Michigan Legislature has now imposed over this state with the Emergency Manager Law signed into law by Governor Snyder just this week.
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sure... is the WSJ good enough for you?

Michigan Boosts Power to Intervene in Cities - WSJ.com

If that is not up to par for your standards, just do your own google search - this was covered all over the country.
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Oh my God! Snyder want's to save the state from actual bankruptcy....ARGHHHHH!

How deceptive do you libs have to be?

I grew up in Lansing, all my life until I joined the military and got the hell out as that state under demo government/Union control was starting to slide into the third world mess we see there now. Too bad really because MI is a beautiful state.

But if you are really going to come in here and blame the current state of Michigan on Snyder, and bellyache because he is trying to come up with a solution to these bloated Union contracts without a WI style standoff, or truly heavy handedness, then you are either ignorant to what the article lays out, or you just don't want to know.

Which is it?

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Oh my God! Snyder want's to save the state from actual bankruptcy....ARGHHHHH!

How deceptive do you libs have to be?

I grew up in Lansing, all my life until I joined the military and got the hell out as that state under demo government/Union control was starting to slide into the third world mess we see there now. Too bad really because MI is a beautiful state.

But if you are really going to come in here and blame the current state of Michigan on Snyder, and bellyache because he is trying to come up with a solution to these bloated Union contracts without a WI style standoff, or truly heavy handedness, then you are either ignorant to what the article lays out, or you just don't want to know.

Which is it?

j-mac
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Why would you quote what I said about the EMF law and how it takes away the rights of citizens to have their own local government and then attempt to create your own Frankenstien monster and ask me some incredibly absurd question about blaming Snyder for Michigans economic problems? Do you feel at all guilty when you are so blatantly intellectually dishonest?

Deal with the law as it is and not your own strawman please.

This is BIG GOVERNMENT writ large and would make Ronald Reagan die of a heart attack if he had not already met his maker.
 
haymarket said:
First, I saw no examples from you.

Second, Ronald Reagan, patron saint of modern Republicansim, is famous for saying that the most dangerous words in the English language are "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." So we have the less than wonderful situation in Michigan where the acolytes who worship Reagan are now bringing in Big Government to throw out locally elected people and impose dictatorships selected by one man in the State Capitol. The Gipper must be rolling over in his grave. Lincoln famously said that America had "a government of the people, by the people, and for the people". I guess he would not recognize the government that Republicans in the Michigan Legislature has now imposed over this state with the Emergency Manager Law signed into law by Governor Snyder just this week.
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Again this is a play right out of Obama's play book is it not ?

If the financial regulation bill that passed the House last year becomes law, President Obama and his Treasury secretary will acquire the right to take over any financial institution they wish to, provided that, in their sole opinion, it is both "too big to fail" and on the brink of insolvency. The House bill provides for no judicial review and does not require any objective evidence of imminent failure to trigger the takeover provisions.

Good for the goose ... .good for the gander.
 
haymarket said:
Why would you quote what I said about the EMF law and how it takes away the rights of citizens to have their own local government and then attempt to create your own Frankenstien monster and ask me some incredibly absurd question about blaming Snyder for Michigans economic problems? Do you feel at all guilty when you are so blatantly intellectually dishonest?

Deal with the law as it is and not your own strawman please.

This is BIG GOVERNMENT writ large and would make Ronald Reagan die of a heart attack if he had not already met his maker.
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Let's go to your own article posted from WSJ shall we?

WSJ said:
DETROIT—Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder signed into law a measure that broadens state powers to intervene in the finances and governance of struggling municipalities and school districts, giving these local bodies a stronger hand in renegotiating labor contracts.
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Because this isn't about the state taking over local government at all. See this is how dishonest the liberal argument is. In the opening sentence of YOUR own article it clearly states that it gives the state a little more power to intervene into local school districts with help, thereby strengthening their hand in negotiating contracts. But since you see anything that a Union might have to give up in terms of perks as an attack on the unions regardless of whether or not it can be afforded you just come in here an outright lie about what it is that Snyder is doing.

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Let's go to your own article posted from WSJ shall we?



Because this isn't about the state taking over local government at all. See this is how dishonest the liberal argument is. In the opening sentence of YOUR own article it clearly states that it gives the state a little more power to intervene into local school districts with help, thereby strengthening their hand in negotiating contracts. But since you see anything that a Union might have to give up in terms of perks as an attack on the unions regardless of whether or not it can be afforded you just come in here an outright lie about what it is that Snyder is doing.

j-mac
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I'm still waiting for Hay to comment on the fact that a Democrat put the 1990 law into place anyway. All this does is strengthen what a Democrat did... and Hay's going all hissy-fitty over it... And yes, it doesn't even do what hay claims it does (as you showed using Hay's own link). He and PB are getting quite adept at posting links that bolster the opposite of their arguments! :rofl:
 
haymarket said:
Does this ruling mean that the right wing Republicans all over the nation who have repeal of the 20th century on their agenda have to contend with a whole lot more than just the November 2010 election results?

Imagine that!
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The People have been contending with Communison for decades....What's new under the sun? What's New is the fact of the awakening of the Silent Majority once again....it happened in the 80s and its happening NOW at an even more rapid pace thanks to the information and education being supplied by Talk Radio and the Net. Must we wonder why the left demands to silence our 1st and 2nd amendment rights? GAME OVER.
 
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Ockham said:
Don't think this retraining order will hold up under scrutiny. Seems more like a delay tactic than a serious effort to show the law was passed improperly. There's also some accusations that this Dane County Judge, has a bit of a activist background, but it doesn't really matter much. Let's let the law take it's course - of course this is just more time and opportunity for Trumka to bus in more union activists to scream and yell for another week or two.
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Uh oh, here come the activist judge accusations.
 
The Barbarian said:
Again this is a play right out of Obama's play book is it not ?

If the financial regulation bill that passed the House last year becomes law, President Obama and his Treasury secretary will acquire the right to take over any financial institution they wish to, provided that, in their sole opinion, it is both "too big to fail" and on the brink of insolvency. The House bill provides for no judicial review and does not require any objective evidence of imminent failure to trigger the takeover provisions.

Good for the goose ... .good for the gander.
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Lincoln never said corporations of the people by the people and for the people. Comparing a government partially intervening in a corporation with Big Government throwing out the elected local government of a city or town is absurd and a rather pathetic and lame attempt to justify the actions of somebody just because they happen to worship before the same altar as you do.

As Robert DeNiro said in THE DEERHUNTER

..... this is this... this isn't something else.... this is this.
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[
 
Whovian said:
I'm still waiting for Hay to comment on the fact that a Democrat put the 1990 law into place anyway. All this does is strengthen what a Democrat did... and Hay's going all hissy-fitty over it... And yes, it doesn't even do what hay claims it does (as you showed using Hay's own link). He and PB are getting quite adept at posting links that bolster the opposite of their arguments! :rofl:
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Your comments are absurd and ridiculous. The law as passed this week by the Republicans and signed by a Republican governor goes far far beyond any provisions of the old law. It is like comparing clipping a nail to amputating an arm.

But regardless ... is that your standard of what is right? Your standard is to excuse what was done this week because a much much milder bill with a similar name was signed by a Democrat?!?!?!?!?

That is what you want to make this about?!?!?!?!?

If that is so - is all yours pal. Just leave your Ronald Reagan autographed holy card at the door and flush the so called 'small government Republican principles' down the toilet with the rest of the crap.

Years ago we had principled conservatives that stood for principle. I can see there are none here.
 
Whovian said:
Odd... I don't see the word 'dictator' anywhere in there.


So, this has been around since 1990, and you're whining about it now?

This sounds like an excellent idea.

Here's the 1990 law... you might want to actually read it before you continue to whine like a little girl.
TREASURY - How a Financial Emergency Works

BTW, that 1990 law was signed by John Blanchard, a Democrat.
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Who - you may want to read your own State of Michigan link because lord knows I have. Just one provision which was rather mild under the previous law which is not much more more powerful under the new dictatorial power grab

While emergency financial managers are authorized to renegotiate labor contracts, they are not authorized to abrogate such contracts, or other obligations. Therefore, the Act 72 process offers no safe harbor to units of local government seeking to avoid improvidently entered into obligations.
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Under the new law they can do exactly what was forbidden by this language. It has entirely the OPPOSITE effect.

The new law also goes far beyond the old one in that it also allows the emergency manager to sieze and sell any city asset and sell it without any input or word from the citizens of that community. That was not possible under the old weaker law.

In fact, the manager could decide to end the city itself by having it merge or combine with other units around it , again, without so much as a boo from the public.

Like Ronnie said about the most feared words in the English language

I'M FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND I'M HERE TO HELP.

And this time is his fellow right wing Republicans who are totally and completely behind it. Not one Democrat in either house voted for this.

So much for government "of the people by the people, and for the people". Now its over for the people
 
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j-mac said:
Let's go to your own article posted from WSJ shall we?



Because this isn't about the state taking over local government at all. See this is how dishonest the liberal argument is. In the opening sentence of YOUR own article it clearly states that it gives the state a little more power to intervene into local school districts with help, thereby strengthening their hand in negotiating contracts. But since you see anything that a Union might have to give up in terms of perks as an attack on the unions regardless of whether or not it can be afforded you just come in here an outright lie about what it is that Snyder is doing.

j-mac
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Why are you lying?

Under this new law the State can do many things including

*** throwing out the elected government of a locality and assuming complete and total power given to one person or even one company
*** throwing out even the elected city council thereby destroying the basic fundamental American idea of checks and balances
*** completely dissolve any and all agreements, in part or in total, the city has made with its workers or any other contract in direct contradiction to the previous law
*** refuse to recognize any organization representing the workers or even community members
*** selling off any and all city assets
*** ending any and all city services
*** and there is no limit on how much they can get paid or what their total financial compensation can be
 
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Jetboogieman said:
pfft.

A first worlder talking about the third world so candidly.

Amusing :rofl
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Like I said, I grew up in Lansing. I remember a better time in MI than what can be had there now. Thanks to Unions, and decades of democrat control Michigan has become a real model of just how badly a democrat with socialist tendencies can screw up a state with vast resources, and strong industrial base. The UAW has a major hand in that as well. Just ask Flint, Detroit, any area where there is decay thanks to union destruction of the income base.

On the bright side, I hear you can buy a house in Detroit now for a dollar, if you can afford the bullet proof glass and 24/7 security.

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Like I said, I grew up in Lansing. I remember a better time in MI than what can be had there now. Thanks to Unions, and decades of democrat control Michigan has become a real model of just how badly a democrat with socialist tendencies can screw up a state with vast resources, and strong industrial base. The UAW has a major hand in that as well. Just ask Flint, Detroit, any area where there is decay thanks to union destruction of the income base.

On the bright side, I hear you can buy a house in Detroit now for a dollar, if you can afford the bullet proof glass and 24/7 security.

j-mac
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To say unions are the only cause of the decay of Michigan is a real fallacy ok.

Simply put. Manufacturing and industry was going to leave America NO MATTER WHAT.

Unless your suggesting an American wants to work for 9 cents an hour for 18 hours a day, you're not going to compete. End of story. Case closed. Goodnight.

That's it.

I see the same things up here in Industry/Manufacturing towns in Ontario that had all the factories closed down.

Too bad. Sorry.

You know its incredible that Americans want the country to be prosperous. Want everyone to have very nice things, well paying jobs, but then when its blatantly obvious that an industry cannot compete internationally in their country its obviously politicians fault.
 
Jetboogieman said:
To say unions are the only cause of the decay of Michigan is a real fallacy ok.

Simply put. Manufacturing and industry was going to leave America NO MATTER WHAT.

Unless your suggesting an American wants to work for 9 cents an hour for 18 hours a day, you're not going to compete. End of story. Case closed. Goodnight.

That's it.

I see the same things up here in Industry/Manufacturing towns in Ontario that had all the factories closed down.

Too bad. Sorry.

You know its incredible that Americans want the country to be prosperous. Want everyone to have very nice things, well paying jobs, but then when its blatantly obvious that an industry cannot compete internationally in their country its obviously politicians fault.
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Oh I think we can compete just fine. That is if you want to really talk of what is holding our industry back. Take for example the foreign aid we send out per year....$27 Billion for China? Really? Why?

Trade agreements that allow foreign products to be sold freely with no tariff here, while the country sending us those products slaps high tariffs on our products there?

Unions that negotiate deals holding whole communities hostage, that pay on average 1/3 higher wage than that job is really worth, and benefit packages that snuff out the business they work for in future years. But hey, that's after they get theirs so who cares right?

Taxes on these businesses that force them to look for less prohibitive places to manufacture in the first place, and regulations put in place by demo/libs that have their eye on some utopian view without considering the unintended consequences of the actions they take.

Meanwhile, all during this ****storm, the libs that destroy the landscape around them with their labels, and talking point rhetoric have the balls to stand there and hypocritically accuse and blame the right for the consequences of their own actions.

Get a clue man.

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Oh I think we can compete just fine. That is if you want to really talk of what is holding our industry back. Take for example the foreign aid we send out per year....$27 Billion for China? Really? Why?

Trade agreements that allow foreign products to be sold freely with no tariff here, while the country sending us those products slaps high tariffs on our products there?

Unions that negotiate deals holding whole communities hostage, that pay on average 1/3 higher wage than that job is really worth, and benefit packages that snuff out the business they work for in future years. But hey, that's after they get theirs so who cares right?

Taxes on these businesses that force them to look for less prohibitive places to manufacture in the first place, and regulations put in place by demo/libs that have their eye on some utopian view without considering the unintended consequences of the actions they take.

Meanwhile, all during this ****storm, the libs that destroy the landscape around them with their labels, and talking point rhetoric have the balls to stand there and hypocritically accuse and blame the right for the consequences of their own actions.

Get a clue man.

j-mac
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Irregardless of anything you have to say here.

The fact of the matter is, no matter what Republicans, democrats of Joan Rivers does, you simply cannot compete.

Again, unless you're suggesting an American is willing to work for 9 cents an hour for 18 hours a day.

Forget it.

The domestic market is shot. The global market is growing, and they want **** cheap and now.

The truly effecting factor at this point is transportation costs. As oil rises, production costs will be attempted to be lowered to compensate.

No way America can compete with that, regulation or no regulation.
 
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