Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play slave

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

CaptainCourtesy said:

I also think that 10 years old is a bit young to manage a lesson like this, but if the students were randomized, the complaining about this is ridiculous. It's like a comedian telling an ethnic joke at a comedy club and a few people becoming offended. Context, people.

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The most effective professor I had would make you clearly define your positions and beliefs, then research and defend the other side of the argument. I agree about the 10 year olds. Still, in Jane Elliots Class Divided experiment, the long term results at least indicate the experiment had lasting long term positive impact. Probably a well intentioned idea.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

Generally speaking, especially at that age, it is necessary to remain in dialog with students rather than with reenactments of such subjects. Adults are sensitive toward passive reenactments of such things. Adults are thus horrified when their children go through anything similar, no matter the intention.

History is dangerous. Just as the historian has to be careful, the primary school educator needs to be even more careful.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

VanceMack said:

The most effective professor I had would make you clearly define your positions and beliefs, then research and defend the other side of the argument.

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This is how I learned to debate in college. One of the best professors I had taught me the same thing.

I agree about the 10 year olds. Still, in Jane Elliots Class Divided experiment, the long term results at least indicate the experiment had lasting long term positive impact. Probably a well intentioned idea.

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I agree. I'd be curious to know what the STUDENTS thought and learned from the exercise, not the parents.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

American said:

Training seems to be a problem with teachers these days.

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Perhaps this, but I think of it more as a failure of imagination and common sense.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

After reading the story, I can understand why race relations in this country are so bad...

People are idiots.

Nothing wrong with this lesson, and the complaints are just as stupid.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

Yeah, I don't see any issue here.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

Jerry said:

They can't handle a real illustration of slavery but they can somehow handle comprehensive how-to sex-ed? You libs are messed up.

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I also disagree that sex ed should be taught in school.

You libs are messed up.

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rof When some people, like Jerry, don't have a substantial argument to make, they demonize their opponents as Liberals, and tell them they are messed up.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

danarhea said:

There wouldn't be a problem unless it adversely affects the kids, and that seems to be the problem. We are talking about elementary school kids here, who don't have the maturity to see it the way you presented it. IMHO, the teacher was just dumb.

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honestly, I didn't take the age thing into consideration, which is a mistake.

my oldest is 3rd grade, and knowing her as I do, it would be foolish to deal with the subject in that manner at her age level. I guess I could see in 2 more years it still being foolish.

edit - but still, I think firing over this is a knee jerk silly thing to do. If the body of their teaching work was riddled with problems, then sure, fire away. but not simply over one bad choice.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

danarhea said:

I also disagree that sex ed should be taught in school.

rof When some people, like Jerry, don't have a substantial argument to make, they demonize their opponents as Liberals, and tell them they are messed up.

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And then so-called 'independents' like danarhea join the fray, proving they follow the heard far more often then they're willing to admit.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

CaptainCourtesy said:

OK... I have a few questions. When the classroom was divided into "slaves" and "masters" was race taken into consideration? Were there blacks and whites on both sides? If this is the case, though somewhat insensitive, I do NOT see this as a racial issue and I'm not sure what the big deal is. For example, I know a lot of schools, when studying WWII, do "mock" Holocaust lessons, where classrooms are divided into "Nazi's" and "Jews". It gives students a feeling of what it was like and how easily power could corrupt (similar to the Stanford Prison Experiment). Should Jewish students be prevented from playing "Jews"? No, though a bit insensitive, if explained appropriately, I don't see a problem with this.

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From what I've read, race was not taken into account, it was random assignments. Apparently there were two black kids in the class. One ended up a master, the other a slave.

I agree with you compeltely, I just don't see the issue.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

Why is this an issue again? Another parent making much ado about nothing.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

This seems to be one of those few issues where people on both sides of the political aisle, at DP, agree.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

CaptainCourtesy said:

OK... I have a few questions. When the classroom was divided into "slaves" and "masters" was race taken into consideration? Were there blacks and whites on both sides? If this is the case, though somewhat insensitive, I do NOT see this as a racial issue and I'm not sure what the big deal is. For example, I know a lot of schools, when studying WWII, do "mock" Holocaust lessons, where classrooms are divided into "Nazi's" and "Jews". It gives students a feeling of what it was like and how easily power could corrupt (similar to the Stanford Prison Experiment). Should Jewish students be prevented from playing "Jews"? No, though a bit insensitive, if explained appropriately, I don't see a problem with this.

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This sort of experiment is actually something that has been in use for decades in the United States, though not always the same subject matter. I do not recall the name but this one woman did an experiment where eye color was used as a basis for discrimination and kids we encouraged for the day to treat blue-eyed people badly because brown-eyed people were superior.

danarhea said:

There wouldn't be a problem unless it adversely affects the kids, and that seems to be the problem. We are talking about elementary school kids here, who don't have the maturity to see it the way you presented it. IMHO, the teacher was just dumb.

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I get tired of people saying things like this. Have you considered that a lack of such efforts to have kids spend a little time in someone else's shoes is in fact the cause of this alleged lack of "maturity" among them? I know that I was always thinking about things from the perspective of others when I was around that age, without any such experiments in class.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

Demon of Light said:

This sort of experiment is actually something that has been in use for decades in the United States, though not always the same subject matter. I do not recall the name but this one woman did an experiment where eye color was used as a basis for discrimination and kids we encouraged for the day to treat blue-eyed people badly because brown-eyed people were superior.

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It was Jane Elliot. Here's a link to her information:

Jane Elliott - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

Animus said:

Why is this an issue again? Another parent making much ado about nothing.

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Yeah, but those parents can make a teacher's life miserable. In a history class, I taught about the history of slavery in Latin America. A kid from Puerto Rico said that the Spaniards treated slaves much better than in the U.S. I had to point out the painful truth of Spanish and Portuguese slavery. The school got a call from his mother who was irate over it... This was in Georgia...

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

CaptainCourtesy said:

This seems to be one of those few issues where people on both sides of the political aisle, at DP, agree.

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I seem to not. To me it seems like this was a big no-no. It does not matter the "lesson" that they are supposed to get with it. It does not necessarily matter the age. I feel like such matters in even a high school classroom are immensely problematic. For one thing, we have to question what exactly someone that young with that little of historical imagination can get out of it. Second, we have to consider that Teachers, though are supposed to educate their students, cannot actually "educate" the students in all matters (because a) people can't handle it b) You screw up the presentation and intellectual accuracy or balance quite easily).

I do not like political correctness, but this is far more than that. These issues are heated for many good reasons. There are just certain subject matters you do not touch with a ten foot pole, and that if you must do so, you do so extremely carefully. Ironically, if there is one thing I have learned about this sort of subject matter with History (be it Slavery or Holocaust), it is that you must immediately ignore what the (typically extremely liberal) Education theorists have been discussing for the past 40 years: do not make it hands-on. You roll out the accepted lessons from history or even the mythology of it and do little to challenge it. You do not want the trouble on yourselves or the administration, or even the students or parents should you perform with haste and inadequacy.
Let the real learning occur later when passions are somewhat cooler, the students are more mature and patient, which can allow for intense professional and self-study.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

CaptainCourtesy said:

OK... I have a few questions. When the classroom was divided into "slaves" and "masters" was race taken into consideration? Were there blacks and whites on both sides? If this is the case, though somewhat insensitive, I do NOT see this as a racial issue and I'm not sure what the big deal is. For example, I know a lot of schools, when studying WWII, do "mock" Holocaust lessons, where classrooms are divided into "Nazi's" and "Jews". It gives students a feeling of what it was like and how easily power could corrupt (similar to the Stanford Prison Experiment). Should Jewish students be prevented from playing "Jews"? No, though a bit insensitive, if explained appropriately, I don't see a problem with this.

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There's no need for role playing in the classroom. This teacher, along with any other that would use this crappy teaching method should be kicked out on the street.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

apdst said:

There's no need for role playing in the classroom. This teacher, along with any other that would use this crappy teaching method should be kicked out on the street.

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It is helpful, but it can be non-helpful as well as inappropriate in some cases.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

apdst said:

There's no need for role playing in the classroom. This teacher, along with any other that would use this crappy teaching method should be kicked out on the street.

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Nothing wrong with role playing, but this topic should he reserved for older children who can understand it better...

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

apdst said:

There's no need for role playing in the classroom. This teacher, along with any other that would use this crappy teaching method should be kicked out on the street.

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In your opinion. Role playing can be a valuable tool, helping students to understand issues more directly. But please, apdst... explain to us why role playing is a "crappy" teaching method.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

Fiddytree said:

I seem to not. To me it seems like this was a big no-no. It does not matter the "lesson" that they are supposed to get with it. It does not necessarily matter the age. I feel like such matters in even a high school classroom are immensely problematic. For one thing, we have to question what exactly someone that young with that little of historical imagination can get out of it. Second, we have to consider that Teachers, though are supposed to educate their students, cannot actually "educate" the students in all matters (because a) people can't handle it b) You screw up the presentation and intellectual accuracy or balance quite easily).

I do not like political correctness, but this is far more than that. These issues are heated for many good reasons. There are just certain subject matters you do not touch with a ten foot pole, and that if you must do so, you do so extremely carefully. Ironically, if there is one thing I have learned about this sort of subject matter with History (be it Slavery or Holocaust), it is that you must immediately ignore what the (typically extremely liberal) Education theorists have been discussing for the past 40 years: do not make it hands-on. You roll out the accepted lessons from history or even the mythology of it and do little to challenge it. You do not want the trouble on yourselves or the administration, or even the students or parents should you perform with haste and inadequacy.
Let the real learning occur later when passions are somewhat cooler, the students are more mature and patient, which can allow for intense professional and self-study.

Click to expand...

I think it is a very simplistic method of teaching empathy, but it will certainly have the desired effect.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

CaptainCourtesy said:

OK... I have a few questions. When the classroom was divided into "slaves" and "masters" was race taken into consideration? Were there blacks and whites on both sides? If this is the case, though somewhat insensitive, I do NOT see this as a racial issue and I'm not sure what the big deal is. For example, I know a lot of schools, when studying WWII, do "mock" Holocaust lessons, where classrooms are divided into "Nazi's" and "Jews". It gives students a feeling of what it was like and how easily power could corrupt (similar to the Stanford Prison Experiment). Should Jewish students be prevented from playing "Jews"? No, though a bit insensitive, if explained appropriately, I don't see a problem with this.

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A bit insensitive appears to be your stand on this issue. When I was 13 our band had a 15 year old African-American kid for a front man. I went to Jr. High while he was going to high school. When his history teacher covered slavery in the classroom he stayed home 'sick'.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

ARealConservative said:

political correctness run amok.

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Only for the white people.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

CaptainCourtesy said:

I also think that 10 years old is a bit young to manage a lesson like this, but if the students were randomized, the complaining about this is ridiculous. It's like a comedian telling an ethnic joke at a comedy club and a few people becoming offended. Context, people.

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Context is being one of two AA kids in a class about slavery. The child has a right to complain. He probably wasn't very comfortable with the whole exercise to begin with.

I'd fire the teacher immediately.

Re: Bad lesson? Ohio elementary school in trouble after black student made to play sl

StillBallin75 said:

when I was younger we just watched Roots.

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We watched that in middle school. It was and is an amazing work, and would be MUCH better than having somethign like this happen. WTF was the teacher thinking?