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Maryland Gay Marriage Bill sent back to cmte. Shelved for this year at least.

mac said:
It isn't normal simply in that such a small percentage of our species is homosexual.
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Appeal to Normality

My argument is that it isn't natural
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Appeal to Nature

combine that with my upbringing
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Anecdotal Evidence

my religion,
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Appeal to Faith

and thousands of years of human history
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Appeal to Tradition

and you find my opposition.
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Which is completely irrational, illogical, and without any credible evidence.
 
mac said:
I'm familiar with the bonobo. Comparing us to animals in nature is an appeal to nature which doesn't really help your case. Mainly because you don't know why they engage in these behaviors. Bononbos and Chimps are VERY closely related and yet you don't see that behavior in Chimps....
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Actually homosexuality has been reported amongst all great apes.

Most believe that they use sex as a way of diffusing tension and avoiding confrontation.

Also, I am merely pointing out why your claim that homosexuality is unnatural is blatantly false.

This combined with your argument that is not "normal" (which was pretty much disproved with the point of left-handedness) leaves you without any real basis for your reasoning.
 
mac said:
Comparing us to animals in nature is an appeal to nature which doesn't really help your case.
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That's not an appeal to nature at all. An appeal to nature is trying to say something is right or wrong because ti is natural or unnatural.

Ina discussion about whether or not something IS natural is, by necessity, going to involve discussing nature.
 
mac said:
Homosexuality doesn't serve any benefit to our species. In my view, if homosexuality were natural, our bodies would accommodate it and it would serve a function in our species.
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Well, it serves a benefit to individuals. Something doesn't have to serve a benefit to species to be natural. I like practicing archery. It doesn't serve our species, just me. I do it for fun, I do it for please. Doing something for the reason of "I felt like it" is actually a fantastic reason to do something.
 
mac said:
I'm familiar with the bonobo. Comparing us to animals in nature is an appeal to nature which doesn't really help your case. Mainly because you don't know why they engage in these behaviors. Bononbos and Chimps are VERY closely related and yet you don't see that behavior in Chimps....
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HAhahahah.

Not every animal does it, so it doesn't count!!

This is beyond moving goalposts. Now you're not even playing the same game as everyone else.

Did you REALLY just say pointing out animal activities is an "appeal to nature" when discussing what is and is not natural?

I mean jesus do you know how dumb that sounds?
 
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mac said:
Homosexuality doesn't serve any benefit to our species. In my view, if homosexuality were natural, our bodies would accommodate it and it would serve a function in our species.
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YES! THANK YOU! You finally took the exact position I told you that you were going to take.

CriticalThought said:
As such, your definition of natural is nothing more than whether or not something serves a final cause or purpose. Anything that, in your mind, does not serve a final cause or purpose, you will see as immoral.
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You are a teleologist.
 
mac said:
Homosexuality doesn't serve any benefit to our species. In my view, if homosexuality were natural, our bodies would accommodate it and it would serve a function in our species.
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By this logic, male nipples are unnatural.
 
iamitter said:
Well, it serves a benefit to individuals. Something doesn't have to serve a benefit to species to be natural. I like practicing archery. It doesn't serve our species, just me. I do it for fun, I do it for please. Doing something for the reason of "I felt like it" is actually a fantastic reason to do something.
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Agreed. Also, people who are attracted to the same sex can also have families. Their affection for each other is no less a foundation for creating a family than that between opposite sex couples. In the past, they could have accomplished this by simply having sex, but with current technology they don't even have to involve other people; not to mention all the kids who need adopting.
 
TheBook said:
By this logic, male nipples are unnatural.
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Not to mention that the 95% of males who masturbate are bad people because they know their hand is not a reproductive organ. :roll:
 
mac said:
I'm familiar with the bonobo. Comparing us to animals in nature is an appeal to nature which doesn't really help your case. Mainly because you don't know why they engage in these behaviors. Bononbos and Chimps are VERY closely related and yet you don't see that behavior in Chimps....
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By your definition you just told a lie. Bonobos are chimps. They are also our closest living genetic hominid relative.

And yes, you do see homosexual behavior in the common chimp.
 
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TheBook said:
Actually homosexuality has been reported amongst all great apes.
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And in all those cases what has been observed is homosexual-like behavior, and never has been observed to be exclusive behavior amongst the great apes

Most believe that they use sex as a way of diffusing tension and avoiding confrontation.
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Concur.

Also, I am merely pointing out why your claim that homosexuality is unnatural is blatantly false.
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I don't see how anything you've said does that. Prove it "blatantly false" that is. What it's done is show me how you could have a differing opinion.

This combined with your argument that is not "normal" (which was pretty much disproved with the point of left-handedness) leaves you without any real basis for your reasoning.
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That's not true. What it leaves me with is a basis you disagree with.
 
CriticalThought said:
By your definition you just told a lie. Bonobos are chimps. They are also our closest living genetic hominid relative.
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Bonobos are a sub-species that differs from the main species. Saying Chimp means chimpanzee, saying bonobo means bonobo.
 
mac said:
And in all those cases what has been observed is homosexual-like behavior, and never has been observed to be exclusive behavior amongst the great apes
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What is "homosexual-like" about same sex masturbation, oral sex, and anal sex?
 
mac said:
For anything.
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Freedom works the other way around, dude. You have to justify denying a right, not granting it.
 
Deuce said:
The goalposts are about 6 miles away now.
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He admitted that he justifies his beliefs with a list of logical fallacies, so maybe I should just move on at this point. It's just getting more and more sad.
 
Your Star said:
There is justification for homosexual behavior, he just wouldn't accept it.
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There is more justification for homosexual behavior in nature than there for his opposition to same sex marriage.
 
CriticalThought said:
What is "homosexual-like" about same sex masturbation, oral sex, and anal sex?
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Read the studies yourself and find out. Like me telling you is going to do anything.

I would read them from an unbiased source as opposed to a gay right group or church group, that's just me though.
 
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