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PJ Crowley: Bradley Manning's treatment by US 'stupid'

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PJ Crowley - Bradley Manning - BBC

Is the treatment of him reasonable? Clearly the White House doesn't believe so. Is it intended to be punitive, preventive or aimed at ensuring he is totally isolated from the outside world? Is it overkill given the absence of threat he now constitutes.
 
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PJ Crowley - Bradley Manning - BBC

Is the treatment of him reasonable? Clearly the White House doesn't believe so. Is it intended to be punitive, preventive or aimed at ensuring he is totally isolated from the outside world? Is it overkill given the absence of threat he now constitutes.

He's hasn't been executed, so I don't think his treatment has risen to the level of, "reasonable". They need to come in, in the middle of the night, wake him up and put a couple rounds in his ****ing grape. That would be reasonable treatment for a traitor.
 
He's no threat to anyone for any reason, I don't see why they have to guantanamize him. He may leak in your face though and shatter whatever little nationalistic political reality you believe in. Which is probably a threat to national security.

He's hasn't been executed, so I don't think his treatment has risen to the level of, "reasonable". They need to come in, in the middle of the night, wake him up and put a couple rounds in his ****ing grape. That would be reasonable treatment for a traitor.

Someone needs to put a round of library books in your grape.
 
Once again, U.S. policy is decided by a bunch of idiots. Manning was obviously going to be in the media spotlight and should have been treated with kid gloves. He is only a threat if given access to pathetic security system filled with secret documents and there is no practical reason for abusing him. We have sacrificed yet more credibility when we criticize other regimes for mistreating prisoners and have gained nothing in return.
 
He's being treated like any other prisoner on suicide watch. That treasonous little weasle does not require or deserve "special treatment."
 
The sissy ought to get the Abner Louima treatment (that would be a final act of mercy, like a last meal), then hammer his face into pulp and hang him from his achilles tendons in front of the pentagon. Don't really know where the front of a five sided building would be, but you get the point.
 
He's no threat to anyone for any reason, I don't see why they have to guantanamize him. He may leak in your face though and shatter whatever little nationalistic political reality you believe in. Which is probably a threat to national security.



Someone needs to put a round of library books in your grape.

Once again, U.S. policy is decided by a bunch of idiots. Manning was obviously going to be in the media spotlight and should have been treated with kid gloves. He is only a threat if given access to pathetic security system filled with secret documents and there is no practical reason for abusing him. We have sacrificed yet more credibility when we criticize other regimes for mistreating prisoners and have gained nothing in return.

Some answers are right in the linked article:

Mr Obama added that some aspects of Pte Manning's treatment "has to do with his safety as well".

Military officials have said this is standard procedure for people deemed a suicide risk.

What you have is a guy who worked against his own country, being held in a military prison(which is where he belongs as military personnel), and people can't figure out why he is in solitary? Right or wrong, he would not survive 2 days in general population. Add in the suicide watch and, well, that pretty much explains things.
 
What is it about his treatment that you find objectionable? As I understand it, their reasonong for stripping him at night is solely based on his repeated smart ass comments about hanging killing himself with his underwear.

Heres a simple reality. When you join the military there are certain things you can do and certain things you cant. He did one of those things you really a lot CANT do. No one is beating him or torturing him.
 
Oh...and heres the funny part...this guy doesnt have to worry about getting raped in prison (not that I am advocating violence towards him in any way). The reality is that Julian Asange as been riding him for a few years...and he will likely spend the rest of his life in prison for his actions and Asange's cheap thrills. Knowing you get to spend the rest of your life in a little cell for releasing a bunch of classified documents that hasnt exactly shocked the world...priceless.
 
What you have is a guy who worked against his own country, being held in a military prison(which is where he belongs as military personnel), and people can't figure out why he is in solitary? Right or wrong, he would not survive 2 days in general population. Add in the suicide watch and, well, that pretty much explains things.

You'd figure he'd get along with the rest of the 'traitors'... :shrug:
 
You'd figure he'd get along with the rest of the 'traitors'... :shrug:

There is a large, unsubtle difference between being a criminal, and actively working against the interests of your country. I don't condone either, but I can see the difference, and you can believe those in the prison can as well.
 
What you have is a guy who worked against his own country, being held in a military prison(which is where he belongs as military personnel), and people can't figure out why he is in solitary? Right or wrong, he would not survive 2 days in general population. Add in the suicide watch and, well, that pretty much explains things.

Reality isn't what matters in this case. I have no idea if Manning is actually being mistreated. The point is to avoid the appearance of abuse to score PR points. This is an opportunity to take back some moral high-ground lost with gitmo and Abu Ghraib. There is minimal cost and zero risk is giving manning special red-carpet treatment and it will give us more credibility than actually solving problems of prisoner abuse.
 
Reality isn't what matters in this case. I have no idea if Manning is actually being mistreated. The point is to avoid the appearance of abuse to score PR points. This is an opportunity to take back some moral high-ground lost with gitmo and Abu Ghraib. There is minimal cost and zero risk is giving manning special red-carpet treatment and it will give us more credibility than actually solving problems of prisoner abuse.

There is no moral ground being lost except to those who already assume it. There is zero evidence he is actually being mistreated.
 
There is no moral ground being lost except to those who already assume it. There is zero evidence he is actually being mistreated.

That doesn't matter. In the world of public opinion, since we have already abused prisoners on other occasions, the mere accusation is enough. While it might be distasteful to cater to fools, the costs are minimal and we need the boost to our image. We live in a world of advertising and television sound bytes and our foreign policy needs to reflect that.
 
There is zero evidence he is actually being mistreated.
It might be self evident because he's on suicide watch and a political prisoner imo.
 
That doesn't matter. In the world of public opinion, since we have already abused prisoners on other occasions, the mere accusation is enough. While it might be distasteful to cater to fools, the costs are minimal and we need the boost to our image. We live in a world of advertising and television sound bytes and our foreign policy needs to reflect that.

I don't think you understand. For those who assume the US is evil, or for those who see Manning and WikiLeaks as some kind of martyrs, they see what they expect to see here. For every one else, they see the truth, that under the circumstances he is clearly not being mistreated.
 
I don't think you understand. For those who assume the US is evil, or for those who see Manning and WikiLeaks as some kind of martyrs, they see what they expect to see here. For every one else, they see the truth, that under the circumstances he is clearly not being mistreated.

That is based on the false assumption that people's opinions cannot be swayed. Many of those people who think the U.S. is evil also thought Obama was greatest thing since sliced bread. It would satisfy their desire just as much to see Obama "changing" the treatment of prisoners as the U.S. being evil. What harm is there is giving Bradley particularly nice treatment in return for good PR?
 
He's hasn't been executed, so I don't think his treatment has risen to the level of, "reasonable". They need to come in, in the middle of the night, wake him up and put a couple rounds in his ****ing grape. That would be reasonable treatment for a traitor.

Adolph Hitler, Joseph Stalin, and Pol Pot were all quite impressed with your unAmerican post. They welcome you to the dark side. :mrgreen:
 
That is based on the false assumption that people's opinions cannot be swayed. Many of those people who think the U.S. is evil also thought Obama was greatest thing since sliced bread. It would satisfy their desire just as much to see Obama "changing" the treatment of prisoners as the U.S. being evil. What harm is there is giving Bradley particularly nice treatment in return for good PR?

Well...if he managed to kill himself as he has threatened, or another prisoner killed him, how do you think the wingnuts would react? Any one dumb enough to think he is a political prisoner or being mistreated somehow is not some one who is going to going to be reasonable on the issue anyway.
 
That is based on the false assumption that people's opinions cannot be swayed. Many of those people who think the U.S. is evil also thought Obama was greatest thing since sliced bread. It would satisfy their desire just as much to see Obama "changing" the treatment of prisoners as the U.S. being evil. What harm is there is giving Bradley particularly nice treatment in return for good PR?

You want "them" to like us. "They" are never going to like us. If we give "special treatment" to a treasonous worm like Bradley, then we are announcing to the world that what he did wasn't really bad, in fact it was really good and we want more people to do what he did so we can treat them special too.

"They" don't enforce US law. We don't enforce "their" laws. Bradley is being treated exactly the same as every other suicidal and protected prisoner in that brig. Which is the only fair and right thing to do.
 
I was surprised how quick the WH and other pols in DC were quick to meddle in the affairs of another sovereign nation.

Since wikileaks we know that happens often. Democracy begins at home Mr. Prez., and you and your congress ain't been representing, yo!
 
I was surprised how quick the WH and other pols in DC were quick to meddle in the affairs of another sovereign nation.

Since wikileaks we know that happens often. Democracy begins at home Mr. Prez., and you and your congress ain't been representing, yo!

What in the hell are you talking about? Manning is a US citizen, charged with a crime in the US..
 
Well...if he managed to kill himself as he has threatened, or another prisoner killed him, how do you think the wingnuts would react? Any one dumb enough to think he is a political prisoner or being mistreated somehow is not some one who is going to going to be reasonable on the issue anyway.

The flaw of that line of thinking is that reasonable people are limited in number and influence. Politicians and electorate alike are swayed by sloppy journalism. Foreign policy is primarily about satisfying unreasonable people. The key is not to sacrifice anything important in the process. Giving Manning nice treatment doesn't cost anything which is what makes this an opportunity.
 
You want "them" to like us. "They" are never going to like us.

That is foolish thinking. International perception of America has real impact on the nation as whole. There is a direct relationship between how people think we treat our prisoners and what happens to American prisoners abroad. There are of course times when international opinion is worth sacrificing, but it should not be ignored.

If we give "special treatment" to a treasonous worm like Bradley, then we are announcing to the world that what he did wasn't really bad, in fact it was really good and we want more people to do what he did so we can treat them special too.

He is still going to prison, so there is more than enough deterrence for future leakers. The point is not to announce we are giving him special treatment, but create the illusion that all prisoners are treated with such care.

"They" don't enforce US law. We don't enforce "their" laws. Bradley is being treated exactly the same as every other suicidal and protected prisoner in that brig. Which is the only fair and right thing to do.

The problem is that Bradley isn't like every other prisoner in the brig. He has a big spotlight being trained on him and everyone is watching.
 
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