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Muslim 'radicalization' hearing a success, say Rep. Peter King, Republicans

StillBallin75 said:
Not really...a Muslim as opposed to who else? Just whom is it irrelevant to? If it's about Muslims who are Americans (which this discussion has been about all along), shouldn't their opinion count?
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Yes, the ones who love America, and it's about time we started listening to them.
 
apdst said:
If Christians were launching attack after attack and killing thousands of American citizens, I would.

Um, are they?
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They get caught. So do the muslims. It seems to be 9/11 that was the big slip up.
 
pbrauer said:
Where is Muslim mentioned in that link?????
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I don't think I claimed Muslim was mentioned in that link. Just had an extra strawman you haven't used today or.. ?
 
Barbbtx said:
If you had watched you would know that wasn't the focus. The focus wasn't about catching terrorists, it was on learning why radicalization happens and how to prevent it.
Funny, I came away with a much more positive view of Muslims. I was mislead into believing moderate Muslims weren't being effected by the few radicals and that they chose to ignore them. That's not true at all and they want help, though it will mostly be up to the muslim community to fix the problem.
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Well Barb, if that's truly what happened the way you say it did, then it should be a good thing.
 
StillBallin75 said:
I think you're giving Al-Qaeda way too much credit here. I doubt they had all of these calculations in mind. In reality all AQ wanted to achieve in committing 9/11 was that they thought they could get us to withdraw our military forces from the Middle East and stop supporting Israel. Clearly they miscalculated, although we haven't done ourselves any favors. I doubt that it was their master plan to put America against all of Islam, but clearly the spate of Islamic terrorism in recent decades have colored and skewed the West's view of Islam for sure. I think it's a temporary thing that will pass (even if it takes awhile to do so), just like discrimination against Japanese and Chinese-Americans. Clearly AQ itself isn't really better off after doing all this, so I think it's a real big stretch to say "this is what they wanted all along." They certainly haven't done themselves any favors.
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I think you are wrong. I think the 'clever' part of 9/11 was knowing the racism/islamphobia in the West and how it would react against Muslims. I am pretty convinced that was firmly thought of. I know just a couple of months ago I was reading a radical who quite correctly said that if it wasn't for racism, they would not have a chance, and I have always thought this was a deliberate part of 9/11.
 
apdst said:
Two words folks: Alger. Hiss.

History is a wonderful thing. Especially, if you are actually aware of the historical facts that make up the big picture.

Stillballin, my man, you need to go to the school that you got your history degree from and get your money back.
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apdst...notice i said THE MAJORITY of his accusations were unsubstantiated. This isn't a debatable fact, it's the truth. Add that to the fact that he got censured. Now, I didn't say there wasn't anyone at all, but one example hardly supports your point or disproves mine. And I always try to find some common ground with you apdst even though we disagree on most things, but this isn't the first time you've used your own distorted version of revisionist history (the last time was when we were talking about Vietnam and how the South "chose" democracy) in your arguments.

Is/was espionage a problem? It always is. I don't deny that. But this hardly justified the ridiculous witch hunt that McCarthy engaged in, him being censured was a complete indictment of his agenda.
 
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alexa said:
I think you are wrong. I think the 'clever' part of 9/11 was knowing the racism/islamphobia in the West and how it would react against Muslims. I am pretty convinced that was firmly thought of. I know just a couple of months ago I was reading a radical who quite correctly said that if it wasn't for racism, they would not have a chance, and I have always thought this was a deliberate part of 9/11.
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Whether this is true or not is debatable. However it hardly helps Al-Qaeda or makes it stronger. I think people, including Al-Qaeda themselves, use this as a post facto justification for the things they did, but i don't think AQ really thought that far ahead about what would happen. And what did that radical mean by "they wouldn't have had a chance?" A chance to do what?
 
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Peter King is quite possibly the biggest douche in Congress. My God, what an ass. What exactly does he expect to learn from these hearings? What are the policy implications...round up all Muslims and put them in internment camps?
 
StillBallin75 said:
Whether this is true or not is debatable. However it hardly helps Al-Qaeda or makes it stronger. I think people, including Al-Qaeda themselves, use this as a post facto justification for the things they did, but i don't think AQ really thought that far ahead about what would happen. And what did that radical mean by "they wouldn't have had a chance?" A chance to do what?
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Whether or not al-Qaeda intended to spark anti-Islam sentiments in the U.S. on 9/11 is definitely debatable. And I agree with you, in the sense that their only clear strategic motive was to get the United States out of the Persian Gulf. However, Islamaphobia in the United States helps al-Qaeda in two ways: 1) It creates an image of the U.S. that al-Qaeda wants. 2) It helps al-Qaeda recruit more members. The more America looks like it hates Muslims, the easier it is for them to get members. Whether or not these benefits outweigh the damage done to them by the United States hunting al-Qaeda down overseas is another question.
 
McCarthy was a self-serving bastard who caused serious damage the nation. The state department was filled with spies, yet McCarthy never actually managed to uncover any real evidence against them. Instead he leveled completely baseless accusations with zero proof. The biggest harm was that legitimate investigation into actual spies was associated with McCarthy's witch hunt. He actually furthered the abilities of soviet espionage.
 
theplaydrive said:
Whether or not al-Qaeda intended to spark anti-Islam sentiments in the U.S. on 9/11 is definitely debatable. And I agree with you, in the sense that their only clear strategic motive was to get the United States out of the Persian Gulf. However, Islamaphobia in the United States helps al-Qaeda in two ways: 1) It creates an image of the U.S. that al-Qaeda wants. 2) It helps al-Qaeda recruit more members. The more America looks like it hates Muslims, the easier it is for them to get members. Whether or not these benefits outweigh the damage done to them by the United States hunting al-Qaeda down overseas is another question.
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No disagreement here man.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Whether this is true or not is debatable. However it hardly helps Al-Qaeda or makes it stronger. I think people, including Al-Qaeda themselves, use this as a post facto justification for the things they did, but i don't think AQ really thought that far ahead about what would happen. And what did that radical mean by "they wouldn't have had a chance?" A chance to do what?
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No, I don't think it was post. We, in the UK had radicals around ready to swoop up people who knew swa about Islam but suffered the post 9/11 hatred and took to being Muslim. Radicals want the West to hate the Muslims in their midst. Their programing is based on this.
 
Kandahar said:
Peter King is quite possibly the biggest douche in Congress. My God, what an ass. What exactly does he expect to learn from these hearings? What are the policy implications...round up all Muslims and put them in internment camps?
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I thought the reason and what he hopes to learn was identified in the first 20 seconds. From the transcript (hat tip: to donsutherland1's post earlier in this thread) and the following is found in the video of the opening statements.

Rep. King said:
Good Morning. The committee of Homeland Security will come to order. The committee is meeting today to hear testimony on the extent of radicalization in the American Muslim community and to investigate that community's response.
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Ockham said:
I thought the reason and what he hopes to learn was identified in the first 20 seconds. From the transcript (hat tip: to donsutherland1's post earlier in this thread) and the following is found in the video of the opening statements.
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How the heck could anyone give any credibility to an IRA supporter complaining about terrorism? :shock:
 
Deuce said:
I wonder if these hearings were announced about Christianity if people here would react the same way.
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They would if Christians had flown planes into buildings in NYC.
 
Kandahar said:
Peter King is quite possibly the biggest douche in Congress. My God, what an ass. What exactly does he expect to learn from these hearings? What are the policy implications...round up all Muslims and put them in internment camps?
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For one, he wants to help people like this and learn from them. This guy testified at the hearing and you can read his testimony here. He was very grateful to King to be given a platform to speak.



Hearing on

and this is what he is doing for his community.

Muslims campaign to save Somali-American teens

Abdirizak Bihi, center, walks in Minneapolis with members of a Somali youth soccer team as the group solicited donations for a team trip. Bihi is driven to save at-risk teens by the memory of his 18-year-old nephew, who was recruited to fight in Somalia and died there.
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Working at all hours, they are waging their own personal jihad, hoping to win the hearts and minds of Somali teens being tempted to embrace a radical ideology that for many is only a keystroke or a YouTube clip away.
"They want to steal our youth," Bihi says.
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For both, the task is urgent. Already, about 20 Somali-Americans from Minnesota have been recruited by the terrorist group al-Shabaab to go overseas. Five of them, including Bihi's teenage nephew, have died while training and fighting in Somalia's bloody civil war. One died while killing others in a suicide attack
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Anyone who doesn't want more clarity and information has an agenda and therefore no objectivity. There is no debate when objectivity is absent.
 
Why am I not surprised by the support for this blatant display of government thuggery? I kinda wonder what the reactions would be if there were hearings on what radicalizes gun owners, and other absurd bull****. It's also somewhat of a shock of the praises for King when it was only two months ago he was calling for gun control.

44 - Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) calls for gun-control legislation aimed at protecting lawmakers

It needs to be said, before I get into the history of these efforts, that "McCarthyism" – as it is now known, after the most infamous of its practitioners – was preceded by a left-wing effort to demonize – and prosecute – elements of the political right, and if imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, then no one can doubt the sincerity of Tail-Gunner Joe and his epigones. In the run-up to World War II, and afterwards, the political left in this country launched a crusade to link conservative opponents of US entry into the war with Hitler and Nazi Germany. The best-selling book Under Cover, by pro-Communist John Roy Carlon, a.k.a. Avedis Derounian, was a crude and highly effective smear against the anti-interventionist movement, using every trick in the book to tie in antiwar activists affiliated with the conservative America First Committee with the German American Bund and other pro-Nazi groups. Congressional hearings were an important prop in this pro-war, anti-conservative campaign: indeed, the first manifestation of the notorious House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC), which became famous for its efforts purporting to expose Communist activities in the US, was the "Special Committee on Un-American Activities Authorized to Investigate Nazi Propaganda and Certain Other Propaganda Activities," chaired by the left-wing Rep. Samuel Dickstein (D-Florida). Dickstein took his show on the road, traveling to cities across the United States where testimony was heard implicating prominent conservatives in a number of fantastic plots, including the "Business Plot" – a purported scheme by big business to instigate a military coup against Franklin Delano Roosevelt. These activities culminated, in 1944, in the trial of 30 right-wingers for plotting to overthrow the government of the United States in tandem with Nazi Germany, the so-called Sedition Trial, which ended in a fiasco.
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The Return of the Witch-Hunters by Justin Raimondo -- Antiwar.com
 
alexa said:
How the heck could anyone give any credibility to an IRA supporter complaining about terrorism? :shock:
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We're talking about politicians here aren't we?
 
Ockham said:
We're talking about politicians here aren't we?
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I personally don't read a lot into the whole IRA thing, but I can definitely see why people seem to think King is a hypocrite for supporting terrorists in someone else's country.
 
StillBallin75 said:
I personally don't read a lot into the whole IRA thing, but I can definitely see why people seem to think King is a hypocrite for supporting terrorists in someone else's country.
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I can see it but the IRA and Al Qaeda are two entirely different animals.
 
Ockham said:
I can see it but the IRA and Al Qaeda are two entirely different animals.
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There are differences obviously, but at the end of the day terrorism is terrorism wherever its found. If you kill innocents you should be condemned, no matter the cause. That's just my two cents.
 
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chevydriver1123 said:
Why am I not surprised by the support for this blatant display of government thuggery? I kinda wonder what the reactions would be if there were hearings on what radicalizes gun owners, and other absurd bull****. It's also somewhat of a shock of the praises for King when it was only two months ago he was calling for gun control.

44 - Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) calls for gun-control legislation aimed at protecting lawmakers



The Return of the Witch-Hunters by Justin Raimondo -- Antiwar.com
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So you despise King. Forget about him. The hearings aren't about him. Try having an open mind.

http://homeland.house.gov/sites/homeland.house.gov/files/Testimony Jasser_0.pdf
Some have criticized these proceedings saying it is not the government’s role to do that. As I sit
here in the people’s House, I am reminded that we are a government of the people whose
entire foundation, our Constitution, our Bill of Rights and especially the Establishment clause,
rested on the ability of our citizenry to have open dialogue about any issue affecting our societyprobably most important of which was religious freedom.
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Yet as we have seen with the lead up to these hearings, we are barely able to come together to
have an open discussion of the problem. This is not a left versus right issue or a case of
infringement on the rights of a minority. This needs to be a serious assessment of the threat
posed to our national security. The course of Muslim radicalization in the United States over the
past two years makes it exceedingly difficult for anyone to assert with a straight face that in
America we Muslims do not have a radicalization problem.
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From my perspective in our years of work of reform at the American Islamic Forum for
Democracy and a lifetime of dedication to America, my faith, and my family, I see radicalization
as my problem and as a Muslim I am not offended if you tell me that. In the end countering
radicalization should be the obsession of every Muslim because if we do not what will be our
legacy for our children?
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So I come to you as a devout Muslim, and to giveyou a so far little heard viewpoint from that
Islamic space, that shows our “diversity”. Those that have been struggling to get our leadership
in mosques to reform and do the heavy lifting of modernization and enlightenment have been
faced with too many obstacles inside and outside the Muslim community.
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