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France formally recognises Libyan rebels' authority

Looks like Cameron is dragging us along too --

What do Cameron and Sarkozy have in common? Foreign Secretaries whose clumsy and belated reactions have brought down political ratings..

No technology is as good as actually first hand human intel. With Bin Laden that is near impossible to get, Saddam had lost and was on the run.. Gaddafi is still trying to keep his country and needs to be out in the open to rally the troops. That is a huge difference.

haha, you think Gaddafi is more easy to spot or get at than Hussein?

The UK and France should be very careful with this. Remember the Suez crisis?

Yeah, we watch Washington in case they try and stab us in the back again.... however this time Washington is in as much deep financial crisis and can't threaten to sink the pound or the Euro. Only China now has the financial muscle to do this.
 
Obama could take a lesson here.

Pretty gutsy for France. I wonder how much oil they get from Libya, you think maybe there's some pressure there? Of course Obama's senior adviser on this thinks Khadaffi will win, and Hillary says we need to stay out of it unless Europe wants to take some action.
 
Obama could take a lesson here.

well this is quite a turn of events from a few years back. Now France has more balls than we do, and are teaching us lessons in the importance of supporting democracy in the middle east.
 
well this is quite a turn of events from a few years back. Now France has more balls than we do, and are teaching us lessons in the importance of supporting democracy in the middle east.

How exactly does this support democracy? This isn't Tunisia or Egypt where there were peaceful protesters demanding democracy from a bumbling autocrat, it's an armed rebellion in a petrostate against an extremely brutal dictator. Who knows what kind of government would emerge if the rebels prevail? Granted, it almost certainly couldn't be any worse than Gaddafi's, but let's not pretend that we're "supporting democracy" if we help them. At best, we'd be supporting a government more inclined to do our bidding, which may or may not happen to become a democracy. We've been down that road before. We supported Georgia in its conflict with Russia, and we supported Kosovo in its conflict with Serbia...under the guise of supporting democracy. Today, the countries that we supported have governments every bit as bad as the ones we opposed.

As for diplomatic recognition of the rebels at this point in time...I see a lot of downside and very little upside. Especially when they don't control the capital. If we recognize the rebels and Gadaffi crushes them tomorrow (which is hardly an unthinkable possibility) it will damage our credibility. And if the rebels prevail, what will we have gained by recognizing them a few days sooner?
 
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well this is quite a turn of events from a few years back. Now France has more balls than we do, and are teaching us lessons in the importance of supporting democracy in the middle east.

yep. france showing real balls [/sarcasm]
they have recognized the government of ________ [please fill in the blank]
and please explain how __________ [fill in the blank] is found democratic
 
How exactly does this support democracy? This isn't Tunisia or Egypt where there were peaceful protesters demanding democracy from a bumbling autocrat, it's an armed rebellion in a petrostate against an extremely brutal dictator. Who knows what kind of government would emerge if the rebels prevail? Granted, it almost certainly couldn't be any worse than Gaddafi's, but let's not pretend that we're "supporting democracy" if we help them. At best, we'd be supporting a government more inclined to do our bidding, which may or may not happen to become a democracy. We've been down that road before. We supported Georgia in its conflict with Russia, and we supported Kosovo in its conflict with Serbia...under the guise of supporting democracy. Today, the countries that we supported have governments every bit as bad as the ones we opposed.

As for diplomatic recognition of the rebels at this point in time...I see a lot of downside and very little upside. Especially when they don't control the capital. If we recognize the rebels and Gadaffi crushes them tomorrow (which is hardly an unthinkable possibility) it will damage our credibility. And if the rebels prevail, what will we have gained by recognizing them a few days sooner?

If I remember correctly, a few guns were fired off during the American Revolution.
 
With what we are doing with Libya ….. I think we better be hoping that Gaddafi and his forces win out in this, if not we are just going to be looked upon with total disdain

Sitting on the sideline, might well be the intelligent thing to do, but is it the right thing? Sitting on the sideline, is simply saying I really don't give a f**k what happens, and if you don't give a f**k then you might as well just keep your mouth shut, and admit, that in this game, you are nothing more then a fan, and whoever wins is just fine with you.
 
With what we are doing with Libya …..
share with us exactly what that consists of

I think we better be hoping that Gaddafi and his forces win out in this, if not we are just going to be looked upon with total disdain
please tell us how gaddafi losing this war would cause the USA to be looked on with disdain
and by whom

Sitting on the sideline, might well be the intelligent thing to do, but is it the right thing? Sitting on the sideline, is simply saying I really don't give a f**k what happens, and if you don't give a f**k then you might as well just keep your mouth shut, and admit, that in this game, you are nothing more then a fan, and whoever wins is just fine with you.
then tell us exactly what should be done by our government concerning the libyan siituation


also, please do not stop posting. in fact ramp up your posts. they are so helpful
 
I dunno, dude. We still don't know who these clowns are. I can appreciate the oppurtunity to get some payback for Flight 103, but we can't go off half-cocked supporting the next goofbal, anti-American, Islamofacist dictatorship of Libya.

Side note: is it Lib-ya, or Libby-uh?



I'm not for military intervention, let italians fight italian wars.... But we should see leadership on the front of the POTUS.
 
I think this is a mistake. If the rebels had actually taken Tripoli, that would be a different story...but with our National Intelligence Director saying that Gaddafi is likely to survive, there seems to be no upside to officially recognizing the rebel government at this point, and plenty of downside.




I disagree, taking the side of the winner when they won, is weakness, supporting democracy and freedom when the chips are on the table, shows fortitude.
 
yep. france showing real balls [/sarcasm]
they have recognized the government of ________ [please fill in the blank]
and please explain how __________ [fill in the blank] is found democratic




Since your president is silent on lybia, you of course need to attack the civillians being murdered to prop up your guy..... classy.
 
Pretty gutsy for France. I wonder how much oil they get from Libya, you think maybe there's some pressure there? Of course Obama's senior adviser on this thinks Khadaffi will win, and Hillary says we need to stay out of it unless Europe wants to take some action.

Here are key facts about trade between the two countries as of July 2007:

TWO-WAY TRADE

Worth 2.24 billion euros ($3.09 billion) in 2006, up 18 percent from a year earlier. French exports of 434 million euros vs imports of 1.90 billion euros from Libya.

France was Libya's No. 6 foreign supplier in 2005, with a market share of 5.6 percent. Main French sales include capital goods, cars, food, pharmaceuticals and perfume.

Oil accounts for 97 percent of France's imports from Libya, which supplies 2.5 percent of total French crude oil imports.

Italy is by far Libya's biggest export client.

INVESTMENT

Overall figures for French investment in Libya were not available but oil supermajor Total is thought to be France's biggest investor in the country by far.

Libya has approached France's Areva about nuclear energy and earlier this month it selected BNP Paribas as a partner for Sahara Bank in the first partial privatization.

(Source: French embassy in Tripoli)


Also:

24/10/2010 22:07:00
Tripoli-Libya and France signed on Thursday a Declaration of Intent aims to establish a 'strategic partnership' between the two countries in various fields.

The declaration called for the activation of the 5+5 dialogue as to be able to influence regional policies, broadening its scope and promoting the fight against illegal immigration.

The declaration was signed by Secretary of Industry, Economy, Trade and Investment Mr. Mohammed Hawaij and France's Industry Minister Christian Estrosi.

The strategic partnership includes the construction of a nuclear power plant in Libya. The document provides for bilateral talks prior to the signing of an accord between the Libyan Nuclear Energy Authority and the French Atomic Energy Agency. This will facilitate the establishment of a nuclear legislation and the conduct of studies necessary for the building a nuclear power plant.

A team from the French Atomic Energy Agency will visit Libya for the implementation of a program for capacity building and plans to construct the nuclear power plant.

Hawaij invited, after the signing ceremony, invited French companies wishing to invest in Libya's industrial areas to do so in such a way that companies from both countries will be able to market their products in either nation.
http://www.tripolipost.com/articledetail.asp?c=1&i=5033
 
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Since your president is silent on lybia, you of course need to attack the civillians being murdered to prop up your guy..... classy.
[emphasis added by bubba]

so, you think that one would be wrong to oppose the murder of civilians. even for you, that is a harsh - and stupid - position to take
stay classy there rev
 
[emphasis added by bubba]

so, you think that one would be wrong to oppose the murder of civilians. even for you, that is a harsh - and stupid - position to take
stay classy there rev



You don't care about the murder of civillians bubba, not as long as your president doesn't. as an ideologue you are precluded from standing on principle, and instead stand on what you are told. This is fact. :shrug:


In fact what's most abhorrent, is how you try to blame the civillians as an "unkown", and use that as an excuse to say "**** em".... talk about classy.
 
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You don't care about the murder of civillians bubba, not as long as your president doesn't. as an ideologue you are precluded from standing on principle, and instead stand on what you are told. This is fact. :shrug:


In fact what's most abhorrent, is how you try to blame the civillians as an "unkown", and use that as an excuse to say "**** em".... talk about classy.

as is becoming more typical, your post makes no sense, there rev

please point out where i have said i
don't care about the murder of civillians

you assert:
as an ideologue you are precluded from standing on principle
please identify what principle that i have refused to stand on, there rev

you insist:
and instead stand on what you are told
what was i told rev? please post something which will show it

you (wrongly) opine:
In fact what's most abhorrent, is how you try to blame the civillians as an "unkown"
please copy/paste the post where i have written such a statement

once you show us that, then point out where i used such statement in this manner as you have insisted:
and use that as an excuse to say "**** em"

rev. you are a VERY loose cannon. you haven't the firepower to defend your words. i know that before daring you to do so, but also want to post this challenge to publicly embarrass you for your over-the-top unfounded allegations, once more
 
Fact if Obama came out tommorrow saying we were invading, you would be all for it.


Your incessant whining, does not impress me.
 
Fact if Obama came out tommorrow saying we were invading, you would be all for it.


Your incessant whining, does not impress me.

and i notice you were unable to support the lies you posted about me
you cannot defend your position
you are unable to respond to my questions
your (non)response exemplifies the presence of cowardice
 
and i notice you were unable to support the lies you posted about me
you cannot defend your position
you are unable to respond to my questions
your (non)response exemplifies the presence of cowardice



Cowardice or a lack of respect for you? I think it's the latter. Calling folks cowards on the internet is well, rather ironic. :shrug:


Back to the topic? France showing more balls than you or Obama here?
 
Cowardice or a lack of respect for you? I think it's the latter. Calling folks cowards on the internet is well, rather ironic. :shrug:


Back to the topic? France showing more balls than you or Obama here?


pray tell, what balls france did exhibit in recognizing the rebels
i have very good reason to believe you have no clue as to what constitutes having balls


also, tell us what government has actually been recognized by france
 
pray tell, what balls france did exhibit in recognizing the rebels

Voted other than "present"


i have very good reason to believe you have no clue as to what constitutes having balls


Well, this thread is not about me, but you can't help yourself, so tell me, what makes you arrive at the conclusion I would not know what "constitutes having balls".... My guess is you won't have an answer..

In your case, its your cowtowing to your ideologue ways, waiting for Obama to take a stand before you do, and in the meantime attacking the civillian rebels as unkown, giving support for a brutal dictator because you don't have your marching orders yet.


also, tell us what government has actually been recognized by france


Really? Really? /facepalm
 
Since your president is silent on lybia, you of course need to attack the civillians being murdered to prop up your guy..... classy.

In Egypt AFTER the ouster of Mubarek was certain, he had no problem finding his voice. A few weeks ago several here (including Chappy and a couple of the died in the wool pacifist types) were calling for military intervention to help the rebels against the evil colonel Quackdaffy (maybe it would help if we had a UN concensus on how to spell his name), but no comment from Obama...in fact...the only voice has been from Hillary who has stated...we should..well...wait...to see...before we...you know...decide...what our official position should be...cuz...we...well...you know...ummm...dont really know...what..is going to happen there...and...yeah...

Dood is alternately totally evil at the beginning of the rebellion, to...well..we dont REALLY know who the rebels are and who we will be supporting (like that mattered in Egypt)...

I pity the mindless liberal leftists. I really do (and no...thats not all liberals...some have made their voice very clear from the beginning and it has been consistent and frankly, I agree with them). Its got to suck going through life not sure what position to take and not being able to actually TAKE it until AFTER their beloved leader has finally told them how to think or what position to take.
 
Voted other than "present"
that is what you term constitutes "having balls"

Well, this thread is not about me, but you can't help yourself, so tell me, what makes you arrive at the conclusion I would not know what "constitutes having balls".... My guess is you won't have an answer..
it's immediately above
indicating you have no clue about what it takes to have balls
you apparently believe sarkozy's recognition of an unknown emerging rebel force is being ballsey
you demonstrate that you are as clueless as he about things political

In your case, its your cowtowing to your ideologue ways, waiting for Obama to take a stand before you do, and in the meantime attacking the civillian rebels as unkown, giving support for a brutal dictator because you don't have your marching orders yet.
wrong again rev. that is becoming very familiar turf for you
i have already posted in this thread my advocacy for the suggestions put forward by Fareed Zakaria
if you need help finding it, let me know. only too delighted to point you to something actually insightful






Really? Really? /facepalm[/QUOTE]
 
In Egypt AFTER the ouster of Mubarek was certain, he had no problem finding his voice. A few weeks ago several here (including Chappy and a couple of the died in the wool pacifist types) were calling for military intervention to help the rebels against the evil colonel Quackdaffy (maybe it would help if we had a UN concensus on how to spell his name), but no comment from Obama...in fact...the only voice has been from Hillary who has stated...we should..well...wait...to see...before we...you know...decide...what our official position should be...cuz...we...well...you know...ummm...dont really know...what..is going to happen there...and...yeah...

Dood is alternately totally evil at the beginning of the rebellion, to...well..we dont REALLY know who the rebels are and who we will be supporting (like that mattered in Egypt)...

I pity the mindless liberal leftists. I really do (and no...thats not all liberals...some have made their voice very clear from the beginning and it has been consistent and frankly, I agree with them). Its got to suck going through life not sure what position to take and not being able to actually TAKE it until AFTER their beloved leader has finally told them how to think or what position to take.




this is exactly right. Obama is an indecisive president and it's showing. Egypt deserves to be free only when we know they are winning, but Quakdaffy, no stance on really yet? dithering....
 
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