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Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

MaggieD said:
I agree we have to be careful about villifying unions and blaming them for our economic meltdown. We can rightfully expect, though, that public sector union members share in some of our pain...thereby helping to ease the burden on taxpayers. Defined benefit pension plans are Rolls Royce's we just can't afford.
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Yeah I hate it when the teachers, firefighters and policemen ride around in their Rolls Royce's! They are just so over compensated!!!! I mean what if they don't make as much as the average tax break for those making over a million dollars a year. Why should millionaires have to suffer from cuts to their $93,000 tax break each year just because teachers, firefighters and policemen are so greedy?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Catawba said:
Yeah I hate it when the teachers, firefighters and policemen ride around in their Rolls Royce's! They are just so over compensated!!!! I mean what if they don't make as much as the average tax break for those making over a million dollars a year. Why should millionaires have to suffer from cuts to their $93,000 tax break each year just because teachers, firefighters and policemen are so greedy?
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Well, you're the second poster on your side of the union controversy who doesn't understand analogies. A real shame.

I wonder if others are as tired as I am of your referencing those tax cuts. Do you even know what a defined benefit plan is? I'm guessing the answer is, "No." Or maybe it's, "Yes!! But I want one anyhow!!!" Well, middle class taxpayers can't afford to indulge you much longer.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

MaggieD said:
Well, you're the second poster on your side of the union controversy who doesn't understand analogies. A real shame.

I wonder if others are as tired as I am of your referencing those tax cuts. Do you even know what a defined benefit plan is? I'm guessing the answer is, "No." Or maybe it's, "Yes!! But I want one anyhow!!!" Well, middle class taxpayers can't afford to indulge you much longer.
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We understand the analogy; we think you're ridiculous for using it.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

theplaydrive said:
We understand the analogy; we think you're ridiculous for using it.
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Another poster who doesn't know what a Defined Benefit Plan is...
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

MaggieD said:
Another poster who doesn't know what a Defined Benefit Plan is...
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I love it when people assume that my different opinion points to a lack of knowledge. Once you start attacking my knowledge or intellect instead of the actual argument, I know that you've lost it, especially when most of your posts are one liners backed by absolutely no significant evidence.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

theplaydrive said:
I love it when people assume that my different opinion points to a lack of knowledge. Once you start attacking my knowledge or intellect instead of the actual argument, I know that you've lost it, especially when most of your posts are one liners backed by absolutely no significant evidence.
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You're right; I shouldn't assume you don't know what it is.

Who is attacking whom here? Most of my posts are one-liners? As I reminded you before, you arrived a bit late to this particular party. I've posted/re-posted/re-re-posted links on this and every other aspect of public sector unions/compensation/benefits. I have no particular desire to bring you up to speed.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

MaggieD said:
Most of my posts are one-liners?
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take my wife ... please!
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

MaggieD said:
You're right; I shouldn't assume you don't know what it is.

Who is attacking whom here? Most of my posts are one-liners? As I reminded you before, you arrived a bit late to this particular party. I've posted/re-posted/re-re-posted links on this and every other aspect of public sector unions/compensation/benefits. I have no particular desire to bring you up to speed.
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1. Cool.
2. I'm assuming you since you attack understanding when people don't agree with you. Although you could argue my pointing this out is an attack.
3. Maybe not most.
4. Wow. Talk about an ego.
5. The end. Sorry for taking this off topic.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

MaggieD said:
Well, you're the second poster on your side of the union controversy who doesn't understand analogies. A real shame.

I wonder if others are as tired as I am of your referencing those tax cuts. Do you even know what a defined benefit plan is? I'm guessing the answer is, "No." Or maybe it's, "Yes!! But I want one anyhow!!!" Well, middle class taxpayers can't afford to indulge you much longer.
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Indulge me? I am not a teacher, firefighter or policeman. Do you even know that teacher's agreed to have less in salary so more of their compensation could go towards their benefits? Together, with benefits they make $75,000 a year on average for one of the most challenging and important jobs in the country. That is $18,000 less than the average annual tax break for those making over $1 million a year. So you are saying $75,000 a year is too high of an expectation for a college educated middle class?

What annual compensation do your think our college educated middle class should aspire to?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

from Catawba

What annual compensation do your think our college educated middle class should aspire to?
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Bad use of words there my friend. ASPIRE implies you are trying to reach higher. We all know that the rightwingers want us to race to the bottom as fast as possible. Thus all this whipsawwing of the public versus private sector and defined pensions versus gauranteed pensions.
 
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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Catawba said:
Indulge me? I am not a teacher, firefighter or policeman.
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Then what are you even doing in this discussion? I mean don't we hear from liberals all the time that say we are not qualified to speak to a certain issue because we don't know what that issue entails due to not being a part of it?

Do you even know that teacher's agreed to have less in salary so more of their compensation could go towards their benefits?
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This was a talking point put out there with no basis in reality. Show us the actual, in writing, agreement to do this.

Together, with benefits they make $75,000 a year on average for one of the most challenging and important jobs in the country.
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I'd like to know where your numbers are coming from.

Take a closer look at teacher salaries and you'll find states like New York where the average kindergarten teacher salary is $66,450 a year, and states like New Jersey where middle school vocational teachers make $63,870 a year.

You'll also find states, such as Montana, where the average teacher salary is $40,000 a year and others such as Arkansas, where the average teacher salary is $45,000. These lower salaries reflect the lower cost of living in different areas. However, teachers generally make a good salary considering the cost of living in their city or state.

snip

The BLS also estimates that full-time public teachers work an average of 36.5 hours a week during the school year. With the average school year across much of the United States at usually less than 200 days, teaching salaries start to look even more attractive.

In addition, these numbers don't take into account the benefits that most school districts offer their educators: comprehensive health and life insurance, as well as solid retirement and pension plans. Many school districts also offer to pay for or contribute to a teacher's continuing education.

Most districts pay more based on the amount of college education a teacher has. A master's degree, doctorate or other types of certification, such as special education or vocational certificates, can add thousands of dollars to a base teacher salary each year.

Teacher Salary | Learn the Secrets to Earning a Higher Teacher Salary
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The BLS I believe estimates the average teachers salary plus benefits described above at just north of $100K per year. Plus as the article states many school districts pay for ongoing education which teachers can use to boost their salaries. Not to mention only having a 200 day work year, and 36.5 hours per week schedule.

Your numbers are way off here.

That is $18,000 less than the average annual tax break for those making over $1 million a year. So you are saying $75,000 a year is too high of an expectation for a college educated middle class?
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Well, your numbers being off here I would have to say that in today's world, teachers are paid much better than say 20 years ago, and are being well compensated for what they do.

What annual compensation do your think our college educated middle class should aspire to?
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Well, now that depends on location, and job performance doesn't it now? Do you know how many teachers were let go do to poor performance in NY state last year? That would be 7. That's it 7 teachers out of some estimated 55,000 teachers in the state? If they have such wonderful teachers in that state how come their scores don't show it?


j-mac
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

*crickets*

This story is d-y-i-n-g.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

j-mac said:
Then what are you even doing in this discussion?
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Trying to defend against the class war that has been waged on the middle class in this country.

I'd like to know where your numbers are coming from.
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Then perhaps you should go back and and look at the references that were provided.

The BLS I believe estimates the average teachers salary plus benefits described above at just north of $100K per year. Plus as the article states many school districts pay for ongoing education which teachers can use to boost their salaries. Not to mention only having a 200 day work year, and 36.5 hours per week schedule.

Your numbers are way off here.
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No your numbers are way off. "In Wisconsin, teaching salaries averaged $52,644 in 2009-10, according to the National Education Association, with most school districts offering benefits that range from health insurance to retirement plans."
Wisconsin Teaching Salaries | How Much Do Wisconsin Teachers Make?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Erod said:
*crickets*

This story is d-y-i-n-g.
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Doesn't look like it is dying to me -

Thousands+of+demonstrators+protest+outside+the+Wisconsin+State+Capitol+March+12%252C+2011+in+Madison%252C+Wis..jpg


"MADISON, Wis., March 12 (Reuters) - Up to 100,000 people protested at the Wisconsin state Capitol on Saturday against a new law curbing the union rights of public workers that is seen as one of the biggest challenges in decades facing U.S. organized labor.

Madison police spokesman Joel DeSpain estimated the crowd at 85,000 to 100,000 people, which would top the size of protests in Madison during the Vietnam War.
Up to 100,000 protest Wisconsin law curbing unions | Reuters
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Catawba said:
Doesn't look like it is dying to me -

Thousands+of+demonstrators+protest+outside+the+Wisconsin+State+Capitol+March+12%252C+2011+in+Madison%252C+Wis..jpg


"MADISON, Wis., March 12 (Reuters) - Up to 100,000 people protested at the Wisconsin state Capitol on Saturday against a new law curbing the union rights of public workers that is seen as one of the biggest challenges in decades facing U.S. organized labor.

Madison police spokesman Joel DeSpain estimated the crowd at 85,000 to 100,000 people, which would top the size of protests in Madison during the Vietnam War.
Up to 100,000 protest Wisconsin law curbing unions | Reuters
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It's deader than a door nail, these folks are just watching over it's now rotting corpse. Law was passed... nothing will change that unless the Gov. is recalled and the Senate / Assembly are put into Union friendly hands all at the same time. That's going to take a bit of time.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Catawba said:
Doesn't look like it is dying to me -

Thousands+of+demonstrators+protest+outside+the+Wisconsin+State+Capitol+March+12%252C+2011+in+Madison%252C+Wis..jpg


"MADISON, Wis., March 12 (Reuters) - Up to 100,000 people protested at the Wisconsin state Capitol on Saturday against a new law curbing the union rights of public workers that is seen as one of the biggest challenges in decades facing U.S. organized labor.

Madison police spokesman Joel DeSpain estimated the crowd at 85,000 to 100,000 people, which would top the size of protests in Madison during the Vietnam War.
Up to 100,000 protest Wisconsin law curbing unions | Reuters
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That's a funeral procession. This is done, and most of the 88 percent of non-union workers (and many union workers, too) are rejoicing.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Erod said:
That's a funeral procession. This is done.
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There's going to be a hearing on the legality of the vote this coming Friday. Wisconsin Collective Bargaining Statute Challenge Gets March 18 Hearing - Bloomberg

Frankly, I'm surprised by that since it would seem to be is the court's best interests (the country's best interests, as well) to say that enforcement of the rules of that legislative body should be the purview of the body itself. If that hurdle is passed, then I'd agree: it's over 'ceptin' for possible recalls.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Catawba said:
Trying to defend against the class war that has been waged on the middle class in this country.



Then perhaps you should go back and and look at the references that were provided.



No your numbers are way off. "In Wisconsin, teaching salaries averaged $52,644 in 2009-10, according to the National Education Association, with most school districts offering benefits that range from health insurance to retirement plans."
Wisconsin Teaching Salaries | How Much Do Wisconsin Teachers Make?
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j-mac
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

j-mac said:



j-mac
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It will be interesting to see our your class war plays out in November of next year.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Catawba said:
LOL! 30 years and you are still waiting on your trickle? There is no benefit, except to further build the offshore savings of the wealthy. One only has to look at the last 3 decades to see that since Reaganomics, our economy has declined and our debt has increased.
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Haha... so how many layers of tin foil do you use, and do you use standard Reynolds or commercial grade?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Catawba said:
It will be interesting to see our your class war plays out in November of next year.
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"My class war"???? It is liberals in Madison that have deemed this a 'class war'. But if your question is the bourgeoisie v the proletariat I'd have to ask which are you? And what of those proletariat that become the bourgeoisie after the social take over, and destruction of capitalism? What then eh?


j-mac
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

j-mac said:
"My class war"???? It is liberals in Madison that have deemed this a 'class war'. But if your question is the bourgeoisie v the proletariat I'd have to ask which are you? And what of those proletariat that become the bourgeoisie after the social take over, and destruction of capitalism? What then eh?


j-mac
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What in the world are talking about? Union membership is the lowest its ever been in your lifetime, as has already been documented here:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...gaining-rights-withou-110.html#post1059351463
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

donc said:
Seeing as you keep attempting to divert ,dance around, my question which, is show me an example of a uniion “telling people what they have to do with some of their money? ”.Perhaps this question will be a bit easer for you. From post #893, where you say that public unions live off the taxpayers dollars? You’ll have to explain that one to this old Teamster.

Are you saying that because public employees pay their union dues, out of wages that they earn from the work they do, be it filling potholes, teach children in public schools, fight fires, or put their lives on the line to protect and serve the citizens of the city/state. You consider that public unions living off of taxpayer’s dollars?:shock:
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Now donc, think about what you just asked. Because the answer is basically “yes.” who are those peoples employer? Is it not the city or state they work for? Seeing union dues are taken from a city/state employee's wages, I'm not sure what other way it could be put. I'm not sure where your city/state get the biggest majority of it's money from, but every state/city I have lived in, the money comes from property taxes, state income tax, or various other taxes within that state.

If that is indeed the case, then one could easily enough say, that public unions are funded by by taxpayer's dollars, as it's taxpayer's dollars that pay the wages of public workers, from which union dues are deducted.
 
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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Catawba said:
Unless someone's birthdate is before 1939, Union membership is at its lowest point in your lifetime. To blame unions for todays economic meltdown is ludicrous.

historical%20union%20membership.gif
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Well in this case at least you will have to find someone besides Reagan to blame for the decline of unions, seeing unions seem to reach their peak in about 1945, and have been steadily declining since 1955.

So what in your opinion has been causing that decline, there has to be a reason. I know I have my thoughts on this, just wondering what yours are? I'm sure it's going to have something to do with the rich, but wonders what sort of spin you are going to use for it.
 
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