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Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

There wasn't a debate. Republicans were going to pass the bill regardless of what Democrats said. The only way to stall the process and try to negotiate or find a way to prevent the bill from passing and leave to it a later date when more DEBATE could be had was to leave. Republicans were not interested in debate and as many conservatives in this thread have said or implied, they shouldn't have been, because compromise is weak and 'this is what the voters wanted'.

This is where you reveal how illusion forms the foundation of your arguments.
9&10 News - After 60 Hours of Debate- Wisconsin Bill Passes Moves to Senate

60 hrs of debate and I heard after that there was another 17hrs.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

30 million plus Americans out of work, millions of American jobs being sent over seas. American companies moving overseas producing a product with labor costs far below what any American worker would need just to survive. Where would you suggest that all of these unemployed Americans find jobs?

I'd start at improving their skills with education and making themselves more employable.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

It's MY money before it is theirs, and I AM BROKE!


j-mac

You are saying that those who have their own money in a bank are not entitled to it? You get to take a cut of it first? Maybe you didn't understand. This is not tax money I am talking about. It is the money which the union members put away from their own paychecks. It is money the union has put away, which was collected, in the form of dues, from those who are members of the union.

I seriously hope you misunderstood what I posted, because, if you didn't, then how in the hell can you complain about Obama's redistribution of wealth, when that is exactly the same thing that you are advocating for? Taking money that belongs to some, and giving it to someone else.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

That was not my claim. My claim was that your post saying you "really don't think that liberals have any concept of personal income as apparently they believe it all belongs to the govt." was idiotic, at best.
In any case, my economic views are anything but liberal. Call them libertarian if you wish.

Iamitter here is a forum that we used to have in a more noticeable spot a few years ago. I believe if it was put back where it was previously, it would keep some of the derailing/diverting of threads to a minimum, if for no other reason than they would be challenged to a debate on the topic.

Check it out, bookmark it.I believe that you would be pretty successful in a private debate with just the facts presented. :2wave:

Battle Grounds and Disputations
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

9&10 News - After 60 Hours of Debate- Wisconsin Bill Passes Moves to Senate

60 hrs of debate and I heard after that there was another 17hrs.

From the article:

Some were outraged when the vote came unexpectedly, bringing an early end to the debate.

Fifteen Democrats were still planning to speak when the vote happened.

When I said debate, I meant one in which all sides could be heard.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Thugs? They are only exercising their rightful control over their own money. After all, that is what the free market is all about. If you don't like something, you have every right to stop supporting it with YOUR OWN MONEY. Or would you have the government regulate them? If so, then that is quite a LIBERAL position to take. :mrgreen:

I've done some homework on this issue. M&I has $1.5 billion in assets. I do not believe that assets are $1 billion in union pension money as claimed. I also can't believe that any organization would put $1 billion into one financial institution. Really, how much sense would that make? And, more importantly, what kind of pension fund invests in money markets or other bank instruments? Especially since they are probably inputting an 8% return into their actuarial numbers. Oh, wait. It's a union. Nah, I doubt the whole story. Smells funny.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

The 2003 Bush tax cuts are annually $91,000 on average to those making more than $1 million dollars. the tax cut for those making less than $1 million, the average tax cut is $100 annually. My house was paid for prior to 2003. And those that make above $1 million get the same deductions for mortgages.

So what is your point again?

One point is .... they are no longer the Bush tax cuts.... they were extended by a liberal president, past by a liberal house .. and a liberal senate ... . that makes them your tax cuts ... unless you didn't vote for Obama
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

I've done some homework on this issue. M&I has $1.5 billion in assets. I do not believe that assets are $1 billion in union pension money as claimed. I also can't believe that any organization would put $1 billion into one financial institution. Really, how much sense would that make? And, more importantly, what kind of pension fund invests in money markets or other bank instruments? Especially since they are probably inputting an 8% return into their actuarial numbers. Oh, wait. It's a union. Nah, I doubt the whole story. Smells funny.

The final proof will be in the results. But it is clear that the unions have the right to pull out every dime, if that is what they want to do. After all, it is a free market, and it is THEIR money.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Iamitter here is a forum that we used to have in a more noticeable spot a few years ago. I believe if it was put back where it was previously, it would keep some of the derailing/diverting of threads to a minimum, if for no other reason than they would be challenged to a debate on the topic.

Check it out, bookmark it.I believe that you would be pretty successful in a private debate with just the facts presented. :2wave:

Battle Grounds and Disputations

I would have challenged him but I thought that place got shut down. I remember reading a thread saying we'll bring it back if we see the interest a while ago, but I didn't think that went through and the place was still closed.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

The final proof will be in the results. But it is clear that the unions have the right to pull out every dime, if that is what they want to do. After all, it is a free market, and it is THEIR money.

Oh, I don't dispute they have that right. I just think they're thugs for exercising it....with the sole intent of bringing down a financial institution and costing taxpayers tens of millions of dollars just because execs gave $182K to Governor Walker. Although now that I think of it, ******** might be a better word.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Just how do you CREATE DEBT by NOT TAXING?

By providing an unfunded tax cut for millionaires and then holding the middle class responsible for that debt.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

One point is .... they are no longer the Bush tax cuts.... they were extended by a liberal president, past by a liberal house .. and a liberal senate ... . that makes them your tax cuts ... unless you didn't vote for Obama


Here, lets just take one word out and have a go at it again .

The 2003 tax cuts are annually $91,000 on average to those making more than $1 million dollars. the tax cut for those making less than $1 million, the average tax cut is $100 annually. My house was paid for prior to 2003. And those that make above $1 million get the same deductions for mortgages.


Is that better?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

By providing an unfunded tax cut for millionaires and then holding the middle class responsible for that debt.

the unfunded tax "cuts" are 47% of the population not paying any federal income tax but using billions in federal services paid for by a tax they don't pay
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

You made it sound as if I was taking money from the government. Unless my accountant somehow stole 200k from me last year, I don't believe I'm exactly getting government handouts.

If you make more than $1 million dollars you are in a tax class that averages $93,000 in tax breaks each year since 2003.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

You are saying that those who have their own money in a bank are not entitled to it? You get to take a cut of it first? Maybe you didn't understand. This is not tax money I am talking about. It is the money which the union members put away from their own paychecks. It is money the union has put away, which was collected, in the form of dues, from those who are members of the union.

I seriously hope you misunderstood what I posted, because, if you didn't, then how in the hell can you complain about Obama's redistribution of wealth, when that is exactly the same thing that you are advocating for? Taking money that belongs to some, and giving it to someone else.


Ok, I did misunderstand then. I thought you were talking about their pay plus benefits. However, Let me be clear, if you are talking about money that individuals are saving themselves, then I have no problem with that, however, union dues do NOT fit that ticket. Dues are something that is NOT voluntary, you either pay them, or you don't belong to the Union, and in most cases, that means you don't have the job either. This is a major rub for me.

What I would like to see is the public sector fairly compensated, and having the same benefits that I have, 401K for retirement, and paying a fair portion for their HC just like I have to.


j-mac
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

If you make more than $1 million dollars you are in a tax class that averages $93,000 in tax breaks each year since 2003.


which is rather dishonest because that class includes those making over a billion a year which skews that number. the vast majority of those people didn't come close to that large a tax break

if you make more than a million a year you pay more federal income than almost 47 percent of the entire nation. what does a millionaire get for paying that much tax that the 47 percent don't get from the government
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Which is BS. The Teachers Union had already agreed to ALL of the monetary concessions. What this is really about is the Koch Brothers' influence over the Governor, who is breaking the unions, while lying that it is all about being fiscally responsible.

Either the Wisc govenor or you are incorrect ( nice way of saying what I think). According to him, whatever prononuncements made by those leaders have no standing with the local unions which would be impacted. I personally heard the head of one of the unions on TV say he would talk about changes but would not say he agreed with any.

In addition this change impacts future budgets as well as this current one.

Doesn't anyone else get tired worn out soundbites by both sides. Does anyone, even on a "political forum" site have any interest in honest discussion of important issues?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Either the Wisc govenor or you are incorrect ( nice way of saying what I think). According to him, whatever prononuncements made by those leaders have no standing with the local unions which would be impacted. I personally heard the head of one of the unions on TV say he would talk about changes but would not say he agreed with any.

In addition this change impacts future budgets as well as this current one.

Doesn't anyone else get tired worn out soundbites by both sides. Does anyone, even on a "political forum" site have any interest in honest discussion of important issues?

I get my sound bytes from here. Ha! And my real news from credible links. Yeah, some of the unions said they would agree. Until push came to shove, of course, because if collective bargaining was still allowed on those issues, of course they would have done everything in their power to bargain those promises (which meant nothing) away.

In fact, the Mayor of Madison called an emergency board meeting as Dems were hiding in Illinois to get a number of teachers' contracts signed before the new law took effect. I think it's very important that Gov. Walker do some PR of his own and tell Wisconsinites just how many contracts this mayor had signed in those 2-3 weeks the Dems subverted democracy -- and just how money that cost the taxpayers -- because none of them had teachers paying one cent more than they were before.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Only in America would anyone be having this absurd discussion. Everyone knows teaching is one of the hardest jobs. All the kids are on Ritalin because they are so spastic. The gutless swine Walker didn't include the police unions, what a hypocrite.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Here, lets just take one word out and have a go at it again .




Is that better?

Beats the hell out of me, has nothing to do with my post ...... but I will question that figure of the average tax cut being 100 annually to those making less then 1million .....



Under the Bush tax cut plan, 92 million taxpayers would receive, on average, a tax cut of $1,083 in 2003. Taxpayers in the lowest tax brackets would receive the largest percentage reduction in their taxes. Estimates from the White House project that:

46 million married couples would receive an average tax cut of $1,716.


34 million families with children would receive from an average tax cut of $1,473.

6 million single women with children would receive an average tax cut of $541.
13 million elderly taxpayers would receive an average tax cut of $1,384.
23 million small business owners would receive tax cuts averaging $2,042.
3 million moderate-income families would see their income tax burden eliminated entirely.

Example:
A family of four with an income of $40,000 would see their federal income taxes fall from $1,178 to $45 under the President's plan.


26 million taxpayers would receive an average tax cut of $704 in 2003 under the dividend provision.

9 million seniors would receive an average tax cut of $991 in 2003 on their dividend income.

More than 40 percent of people who receive dividends make under $50,000 a year - and three-fourths make less than $100,000 a year.

Example:
A married couple, both aged 65, with income of $40,000 (of which $2,000 is dividends and $15,000 is Social Security benefits) would see their taxes decline under the President's growth package by $380 (from $930 to $550) in tax year 2003 ? a decline of 41 percent.

Details of the Bush 2003 Tax Cut Plan
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

and you have been funded by tax dollars your entire life
and apdst was a net taxpayer most of his life

he also doesn't support the government getting bigger and bigger--you do

he doesn't support a tax system that promotes more government

you do

words mean nothing. Actions count for much more. And his actions were hypocritical in the extreme and others of his ilk supported him.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Only in America would anyone be having this absurd discussion. Everyone knows teaching is one of the hardest jobs. All the kids are on Ritalin because they are so spastic. The gutless swine Walker didn't include the police unions, what a hypocrite.

Its obvious Fox News and its imitators, CNN, NewsMAx and talk radio are academic frauds, merely parroting the party line of the ultra rich whom, I doubt, are members of this forum.

What are you fighting for? Against your own standard of living? Against unions? For Hannity to become richer? Who?


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Look at the elites pitting the middle class against one another while they exploit you! Here is a list of Elites funding sites like NewsMax and WorldNetDaily:among other things. http://mediamattersaction.org/transparency/funders/

 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

words mean nothing. Actions count for much more. And his actions were hypocritical in the extreme and others of his ilk supported him.

I partially agree with you-
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Its obvious Fox News and its imitators, CNN, NewsMAx and talk radio are academic frauds, merely parroting the party line of the ultra rich whom, I doubt, are members of this forum.

What are you fighting for? Against your own standard of living? Against unions? For Hannity to become richer? Who?


-------------------------------------------------------------------

Look at the elites pitting the middle class against one another while they exploit you! Here is a list of Elites funding sites like NewsMax and WorldNetDaily:among other things. http://mediamattersaction.org/transparency/funders/


the uber rich tend to support dems

why? do you know?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

the uber rich tend to support dems

why? do you know?

There are 'uber rich' who support both parties.
 
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