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Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

and you just swallowed the 'fair and balanced' network' rhetoric lock, stock and barrel...LOL



Let's see what a Wisconsin expert had to say...





An estimate from the people that are actually in charge of the facility...



PolitiFact Wisconsin | Wisconsin officials claim cleaning up the state Capitol will cost $7.5 million

Just like with all leftwing individuals you believe anytime something goes against you it comes from Fox News. Doesn't look like Fox News to me

The Wisconsin Department of Administration estimates it could cost the state $8 million to restore the Capitol to its pre-protest condition, Wisconsin media are reporting. The estimate includes $500,000 to remove adhesive from taped posters, $1 million to repair the structure's exterior and $6.5 million for rebuffing the interior marble.

Capitol protesters out, but high clean-up costs remain
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

You are misinformed. Teachers use their collective bargaining rights to improve reform and funding to address poor, inner-city minority students. Because the priority has been for other things such as corporate welfare, is not the fault of the educators. Without collective bargaining, education will be at the mercy of whatever the corporate elected officials decide it should be.

Going to play the liberal game here, show me a link where union negotiations, were about any of the things you listed in your post
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

You are diverting from the FACT that Democrats ran and shirked their responsibility to the electorate. They were not there to represent their constiuents on other legislation debated and voted upon.

Interesting. Why do they have to be there to represent their electorate? Why can't choosing no to be there be a way to represent their electorate?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Unfortunately for you, the Wisconsin Senate Chief Clerk, Rob Merchant, disagrees with you. He sent a notice out today saying, "[T]he notice appears to have satisfied the requirements of the rules and statutes,".

Majority Leader Fitzgerald sent out the following notice:

We shall see if that holds up in court.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Democrats are elected officials too.

It doesn't matter which political party it is. Trying to argue that we need unions to provide a counterbalance to elected officials is asinine; the officials were elected by the public, the unions weren't. If the public wants someone to oppose the people in power, they can vote for a different group of people in the next election. They don't need an undemocratic institution like a union to provide that opposition.
 
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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

another winning slogan from the washington knows best set

meanwhile, bottom line:

FT.com / US / Economy & Fed - US public pensions face $2,500bn shortfall

I feel like I'm supposed to respond to you with some article that supports my point, but both of us could do that to the end of time. It doesn't matter. I know what I've experienced, you know what you've experienced. I think you're ignorant. I vote in every election and contribute to the party that I most agree with to stop you from ruining the country. You'll do the same for me and in how ever many years, we'll both be dead and none of it will matter.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

It doesn't matter which political party it is. Trying to argue that we need unions to provide a counterbalance to elected officials is asinine; the officials were elected by the public, the unions weren't. If the public wants someone to oppose the people in power, they can vote for a different group of people in the next election.

The officials (Democrats) who support the unions (like the AFT) were elected just like the officials (Republicans) who support corporations (like horrible employer Wal-Mart) were elected.

Some of the public does want unions because...SURPRISE...union members are part of the public.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

we'll both be dead and none of it will matter.

no wonder liberals got so seriously shellacked

meanwhile, public pensions AT THE STATE LEVEL ALONE are a full TWO POINT FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS underwater

debate THAT
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Interesting. Why do they have to be there to represent their electorate? Why can't choosing no to be there be a way to represent their electorate?

Wonder if their constituents agree with them missing votes on state legislation. Sounds a lot to me like no representation on the part of a lot of Wisconsin citizens.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Such is life.

Great news for the Wisconsin Taxpayers

Wis. State Assembly Approves Bill Stripping Unions' Collective Bargaining Rights
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Wonder if their constituents agree with them missing votes on state legislation. Sounds a lot to me like no representation on the part of a lot of Wisconsin citizens.

Well given that the outcome would have been the same either way, and at least this way the Democrats were able to delay the legislation and bring it to national attention, I'm sure their constituents are quite pleased. I would say that Walker's incredible drop in polls and the 65% rejection of his actions by the public of Wisconsin according to conservative polls, are further evidence of that, but I imagine the final tally will be clear after the recall elections.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Well given that the outcome would have been the same either way, and at least this way the Democrats were able to delay the legislation and bring it to national attention, I'm sure their constituents are quite pleased. I would say that Walker's incredible drop in polls and the 65% rejection of his actions by the public of Wisconsin according to conservative polls, are further evidence of that, but I imagine the final tally will be clear after the recall elections.

Do you live in Wisconsin? The people there will have a chance to change directions again in 4 years. by that time we will see if the budget is better and jobs are being created. Those issues alone will change the poll numbers.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

The officials (Democrats) who support the unions (like the AFT) were elected just like the officials (Republicans) who support corporations (like horrible employer Wal-Mart) were elected.

Some of the public does want unions because...SURPRISE...union members are part of the public.

The appropriate counterweight to elected officials is other elected officials. Not undemocratic institutions. If the people of Wisconsin are so eager to overpay public workers and are satisfied with the status quo in education, then they can vote for people in the next election who promise to do those things. But they don't need an unelected union to do so, they just need a majority of their legislature and the governorship.
 
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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

no wonder liberals got so seriously shellacked

meanwhile, public pensions AT THE STATE LEVEL ALONE are a full TWO POINT FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS underwater

debate THAT

It's called keeping the bigger picture so you don't get lost in petty little article competitions.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

The appropriate counterweight to elected officials is other elected officials. Not undemocratic institutions.

This must be a joke. You brought in Iran? What's next? Are you going to call me Hitler?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Great news for the Wisconsin Taxpayers

Wis. State Assembly Approves Bill Stripping Unions' Collective Bargaining Rights

I'm crying. Oh wait...I forgot, this isn't a tyranny. We can change things.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Name one worthwhile education reform that teachers' unions have supported in the last 30 years, aside from those that directly benefited the teachers' union itself. And I'm not talking about grudgingly accepting certain reforms to avoid even more far-reaching reforms...I'd like to know one that they actually WANT, which doesn't benefit them personally.

Going to play the liberal game here, show me a link where union negotiations, were about any of the things you listed in your post

"Collective bargaining is a vehicle to improve services -- whether in education or other areas -- and it would hurt both workers and those they serve if that important right was lost.

For example, I recently proposed a way to strengthen teaching, by aligning comprehensive teacher evaluations with systems of due process. The proposal lays out a fair and expedient process to identify, improve and -- if necessary -- remove ineffective teachers.

It starts with rigorous evaluations -- the kind that many AFT unions are negotiating with their school district counterparts through the collective bargaining process. The next step is a time-limited, but real, improvement and support plan for teachers who need help -- also developed and implemented through labor-management cooperation. The final step is a hearing or adjudication process. All of this ensures that, within a finite period of time, teachers will be evaluated regularly based on agreed-upon standards of what they should know and be able to do, will receive help if they fall short of those standards, and will be removed from the classroom fairly and efficiently if they simply aren't cutting it.

We have begun working with administrators and others to fine-tune this proposal, with the goal of implementing it in schools and school districts quickly. And the best way to do this will be through the collective bargaining process, with frontline educators and school administrators sharing responsibility for this important undertaking.

This is but one example of the improvements that have come about in our schools by giving classroom educators a voice, and a vehicle through which to strengthen teaching and learning. From adapting the school day or year to allow for more instructional time, to maintaining reasonable class size to maximize that time, to securing wraparound services that ensure students' basic needs are met -- teachers and their unions are using the collective bargaining process in ways that help kids, boost the teaching profession and promote the public good.

In the end, it's a question of what kind of country we want. Do we want a country in which individuals are powerless, and hard-working people are denied the ability to earn decent wages and benefits? Americans resoundingly say "no." Yet attacks on workers, their unions and their rights continue to spread. Unlike a Colbert monologue, denying the ability of working people to improve services and secure a better life is no laughing matter."
Randi Weingarten: Workers' Rights and the Public Good
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

I'm crying. Oh wait...I forgot, this isn't a tyranny. We can change things.

Sure you can, if you live in Wisconsin, In 4 years. Just like we are going to change things in two by getting rid of Obama. Amazing the similarities, how does it feel to experience what we have experienced the last two years?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Do you live in Wisconsin? The people there will have a chance to change directions again in 4 years. by that time we will see if the budget is better and jobs are being created. Those issues alone will change the poll numbers.

They will have a chance a lot sooner than that. There will be recall elections.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

They will have a chance a lot sooner than that. There will be recall elections.

From what I understand there is also a recall for missing Representatives, so let's see which one occurs first? You seem to think that there is more union support than actually exists.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

"Collective bargaining is a vehicle to improve services -- whether in education or other areas -- and it would hurt both workers and those they serve if that important right was lost.

Collective bargaining has two explicit goals: 1) Reduce the efficiency of government programs by increasing the cost of labor, and 2) Reduce the quality of labor by increasing job security.

Catawba said:
For example, I recently proposed a way to strengthen teaching, by aligning comprehensive teacher evaluations with systems of due process. The proposal lays out a fair and expedient process to identify, improve and -- if necessary -- remove ineffective teachers.

What Weingarten fails to mention is that she only proposed this process as a way to head off more serious reform efforts. She was the head of the UFT since 1998; what took her so long to even make THIS grudging, token attempt to appear to be reasonable?

Catawba said:
It starts with rigorous evaluations -- the kind that many AFT unions are negotiating with their school district counterparts through the collective bargaining process. The next step is a time-limited, but real, improvement and support plan for teachers who need help -- also developed and implemented through labor-management cooperation. The final step is a hearing or adjudication process. All of this ensures that, within a finite period of time, teachers will be evaluated regularly based on agreed-upon standards of what they should know and be able to do, will receive help if they fall short of those standards, and will be removed from the classroom fairly and efficiently if they simply aren't cutting it.

We have begun working with administrators and others to fine-tune this proposal, with the goal of implementing it in schools and school districts quickly. And the best way to do this will be through the collective bargaining process, with frontline educators and school administrators sharing responsibility for this important undertaking.

The other thing that she fails to mention is that most schools - including the ones where it's practically impossible to fire a teacher - already have a process like this, at least on paper. The problem is that it takes years to actually jump through all the hoops necessary to fire a teacher.

Catawba said:
This is but one example of the improvements that have come about in our schools by giving classroom educators a voice, and a vehicle through which to strengthen teaching and learning. From adapting the school day or year to allow for more instructional time, to maintaining reasonable class size to maximize that time, to securing wraparound services that ensure students' basic needs are met -- teachers and their unions are using the collective bargaining process in ways that help kids, boost the teaching profession and promote the public good.

Exactly, the teachers' unions have no problem supporting reforms that benefit themselves, like smaller class sizes or increasing instructional time. The problem is all the other reforms that they vociferously oppose because the benefits accrue to the students rather than the teachers.

Catawba said:
In the end, it's a question of what kind of country we want. Do we want a country in which individuals are powerless, and hard-working people are denied the ability to earn decent wages and benefits? Americans resoundingly say "no." Yet attacks on workers, their unions and their rights continue to spread. Unlike a Colbert monologue, denying the ability of working people to improve services and secure a better life is no laughing matter."

What an apropos way to end this essay. She thinks it's all about what kind of country we want...for the teachers. Our schools don't exist for the teachers' benefit, they exist to educate students.

"Do we want a country in which individuals are powerless, and hard-working people are denied the ability to earn decent wages and benefits?" No, we don't. So let's get rid of the teachers' unions so that we can get some meaningful education reform in our poorest school districts.
 
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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

This just made me throw up a little bit my mouth.

How can anyone spew a lie like this?


The CB is about the Union members pay and benefits....it has NOTHING to do with "reforming" or "improving" education.

You have swallowed a very large load of propaganda.

You are misinformed. Teachers use their collective bargaining rights to improve reform and funding to address poor, inner-city minority students. Because the priority has been for other things such as corporate welfare, is not the fault of the educators. Without collective bargaining, education will be at the mercy of whatever the corporate elected officials decide it should be.
 
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