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Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

danarhea said:
Real conservatives don't pick a screen name of someone who was a serial killer and grave robber. Just sayin'. :mrgreen:
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Dontcha know? I'm in solidarity with Wisconsin. Plainfield's favorite son.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

theplaydrive said:
3. People call rights whatever they want to call them. We could add a right to the constitution if we felt like it- see the Civil Rights and Women's rights movements. The point is, whatever people 'perceive' as rights, they'll fight for them and get angry when someone takes them away esp. when there is a history based on fighting for them.
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No rights have been taken away. People can still bargain for thier wages, pensions etc etc. All they have to do now is speak for themselves. God forbid that people actually stand up for themselves instead of having someone else do it.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Funny as hell. The 14 that were hiding and nowhere to be found are running like GREYHOUNDS back to the Capital, where they should have been all long. This vote..legal or not accomplished what it was intended to accomplish, TOMORROW there will be a FULL CONGRESS IN WISCONSIN. Again, funny as hell, the democrats were played like a musical instrument. While the democrats are crying about the ban on collective bargaining....the actual bill will be brought to a vote on the floor and pass, making the legal outcome of this evening "MOOT". Brilliant Move.
 
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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

theplaydrive said:
The GOP is usually much better about being sneaky with their anti-working class policies and fashioning themselves as champions of all Americans. They're getting sloppy.
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There is absolutely NOTHING pro-working class about providing ****ty educations to poor, urban minority students because it might involve holding teachers accountable for their incompetence. I can't think of anything more anti-working class than standing in the way of education reform, which the teachers' unions have done for decades.
 
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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

theplaydrive said:
This is so condescending and self-important, I can't believe I'm even responding.

Paying people and giving them pensions and healthcare is not damaging to the economy. We were doing fine when Clinton was president...and the unions were negotiating then too. I think the problem is electing leaders who let their rich friends take dangerous risks with home loans and every other aspect of the economy and then spend extra money on unnecessary ventures...like war.

The United States is fully capable of fulfilling the demands of public workers (who despite being called greedy are probably the least greedy in the U.S. considering that many of them chose to take lower paying jobs when they could have been effing up the country on Wall Street).
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And marching along to the tune of "class warfare" comes this post.

The reality is that Public Sector Unions are the most undemocratic form of Union around. They force concession and get themselves large benefits not form an employer that must find a way to retain profits, but from the Government, and entity that is supposed to answer to the Voters. FDR Knew this, George Meany (former head of the AFL-CIO) knew this, and they bother rightly rejected such a notion as allowing public workers to Unionize.

You should take some notes on why they were against it, maybe you'll see the truth.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Walter said:
Funny as hell. The 14 that were hiding and nowhere to be found are running like GREYHOUNDS back to the Capital, where they should have been all long. This vote..legal or not accomplished what it was intended to accomplish, TOMORROW there will be a FULL CONGRESS IN WISCONSIN. Again, funny as hell, the democrats were played like a musical instrument.
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If they're back in the state, hopefully they'll be arrested and brought to the Capitol to vote on the ENTIRE measure, so that there's no question about it's legality.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

danarhea said:
That's because it was on TV, and I didn't have a link for it yet. I have a link now:
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Thanks. So basically what they did was take the contentious issue that was keeping the democrats away and seperated it into its own bill. Is there anything saying that they won't attempt to pass the actual bill that the collective bargaining rights was in in the first place? If they attempt to pass it then you have no case. If they don't then you do.

The collective bargaining rights issues is what started this whole mess to begin with. Since the republicans were able to get it passed there is nothing saying that buisness can not continue now. Unless the Democrats continue to stay away as another form of protest? In which case just who exactly is to blame then? Wouldn't it be better to go back and try and get this bill repealed while passing the other one (the one with the budget)?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

theplaydrive said:
1. The police and firefighters made up some of the GOP's constituents and I imagine they were not the only ones upset about this.
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About what percentage of Walkers voters do you think they make up?

People who join unions because they want the rights and protection won't support someone who is clearly going after them next.
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People also join unions as a pre-condition for employment. In other words they are extorted into joining a specific union in order to keep their job

2. Overreaching is pissing off your constituents and much of the country.
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The GOP is usually much better about being sneaky with their anti-working class policies and fashioning themselves as champions of all Americans. They're getting sloppy.

3. People call rights whatever they want to call them.
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People think they have the right to have internet too. Unless the constitution says they have the right to access the internet then it is not a right.


We could add a right to the constitution if we felt like it-
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You are right,do you know when the last time the constitution was amended?

see the Civil Rights and Women's rights movements. The point is, whatever people 'perceive' as rights, they'll fight for them and get angry when someone takes them away esp. when there is a history based on fighting for them.
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If its not in the constitution then it is not aright. As for this belief of yours that joining a union and a collective bargaining a right, how can you call it is right if many places with unions have whats called a closed shop? A right implies that it is optional to you if you choose the exercise it.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Hugh_Akston said:
This is great for the state of Wisconsin, I applaud the Senate for a job well done.

:applaud
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Breaking the law and setting the stage for a massive recall election...??
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Kal'Stang said:
Thanks. So basically what they did was take the contentious issue that was keeping the democrats away and seperated it into its own bill. Is there anything saying that they won't attempt to pass the actual bill that the collective bargaining rights was in in the first place? If they attempt to pass it then you have no case. If they don't then you do.

The collective bargaining rights issues is what started this whole mess to begin with. Since the republicans were able to get it passed there is nothing saying that buisness can not continue now. Unless the Democrats continue to stay away as another form of protest? In which case just who exactly is to blame then? Wouldn't it be better to go back and try and get this bill repealed while passing the other one (the one with the budget)?
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I believe the tactic now is going to be recall, and the GOP just gave one hell of a huge boost to the recall effort against 8 Republicans in that state. There is no doubt either that Walker himself will be recalled next year.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Grim17 said:
Sure... that's it... it has nothing at all to do with the public sector union pensions bankrupting the state... It's all about hating Obama.
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Well, that's what the GOP Wis leader said this morning on Fox News.

And that's what all the ads they've been running have stated...


:lamo:lamo
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Kal'Stang said:
Bold part: In case you hadn't heard the laws that lead to the lending problem began with Clinton, under a democratic controlled Congress.

As far as the war goes...I'm sure those in Iraq wouldn't consider "unnecessary". IE just depends upon your perspective on whether it was necessary or not.


As for the US being fully capable of fulfilling the demands of public workers pay....Have you SEEN the national debt lately? $14 trillion dollars in debt. How in the world do you expect the US to pay every single employee without making some cuts? Borrow more? The old saying of "money doesn't grow on tree's" isn't just a meaningless saying you know.
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1. It's no coincidence that the economy thrived under Clinton and tanked gradually throughout Bush's terms and that rich, greedy types tend to flock to the Republican Party. Democrats are not innocent in pandering to corporate interests, but Republicans have the policies that attract them the most. What does a greedy corporation want more than a party the targets unions - see notorious employer Walmart's contribution to Walker's campaign.
2. It was unnecessary for the United States to get involved. We went in based on false information, it did nothing to help us, we are not the world's police and we wasted money that we could have used right about now.
3. When I say capable, I meant with the concessions that unions said they would make. There was no need to take away any aspect of collective bargaining. And as far as that $14 trillion - it's funny how conservatives are so quick to demand middle class workers to sacrifice pay, but they don't even consider the idea that the richest of this country who are still making millions of dollars could pay some extra taxes.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

danarhea said:
I believe the tactic now is going to be recall, and the GOP just gave one hell of a huge boost to the recall effort against 8 Republicans in that state. There is no doubt either that Walker himself will be recalled next year.
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We'll see. But could you respond to post #19 for me also?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Grim17 said:
Sure... that's it... it has nothing at all to do with the public sector union pensions bankrupting the state... It's all about hating Obama.
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hazlnut said:
Well, that's what the GOP Wis leader said this morning on Fox News.

And that's what all the ads they've been running have stated...


:lamo:lamo
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please link to either a video or transcript where the Wis GOP leader sdaid on FOX this morning 'It's all about hating Obama'
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

danarhea said:
Not true. In passing the bill, Republicans stripped out ALL of the economic measures, and the version that went to the floor ONLY dealt with busting the union. NOTHING was passed that dealt with the budget. And therein, we now see the real motivation for this move, which was to repay the funding and favors given by the Koch Brothers to the Wisconsin Republican party. The GOP will soon be dead in that state. They have picked a fight that they are surely going to lose.
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I doubt you have set foot in the state since this has all been going on.

the GOP will be dead in the state of Wisconsin? put down the crack pipe.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

cpwill said:
the ability of a private group such as a union to overturn representative democracy at will is not a right.
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Unions represent citizens. They are a means for citizens to negotiate so that they aren't taken advantage of. If you have a problem with what you say you do, you should probably contact all of the lobbies in Washington that are the talking heads of the privileged few.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Textbook lefty parrot points, congrats.

theplaydrive said:
1. It's no coincidence that the economy thrived under Clinton and tanked gradually throughout Bush's terms and that rich, greedy types tend to flock to the Republican Party. Democrats are not innocent in pandering to corporate interests, but Republicans have the policies that attract them the most. What does a greedy corporation want more than a party the targets unions - see notorious employer Walmart's contribution to Walker's campaign.
2. It was unnecessary for the United States to get involved. We went in based on false information, it did nothing to help us, we are not the world's police and we wasted money that we could have used right about now.
3. When I say capable, I meant with the concessions that unions said they would make. There was no need to take away any aspect of collective bargaining. And as far as that $14 trillion - it's funny how conservatives are so quick to demand middle class workers to sacrifice pay, but they don't even consider the idea that the richest of this country who are still making millions of dollars could pay some extra taxes.
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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Kal'Stang said:
No rights have been taken away. People can still bargain for thier wages, pensions etc etc. All they have to do now is speak for themselves. God forbid that people actually stand up for themselves instead of having someone else do it.
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Joining a union is standing up for yourself. It's a way of getting people with a common interest in the same organization so that the process can be more efficient. And their right to collective bargaining for things other than wages was taken away. But I guess it's okay that incompetent government agencies can now force teachers to take on classes with 40 students so that they get exhausted and students don't learn. Everybody wins.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

The Prof said:
i'm a public school teacher and there is little doubt that the cta and the nea are all about the profession and not the community, the country or the kids

wisconsin is just the beginning, as you know

this movement is sweeping almost all our states

did you see what the MAYORS in MASSACHUSETTS had to say yesterday---about unions, pensions, health care, collective bargaining

Mass. mayors, unions debate health care proposals - Health - msnbc.com

have you heard CUOMO, have you heard MOONBEAM

the force is irresistable

what's gonna happen to membership after the governors and mayors are thru SLASHING

what's gonna happen to union dues

and those customary contributions to democrat candidates

obama won the white house in november of 08 and he thought that what americans wanted was for his team to never let the catastrophe go to waste

the opposition was rewarded in many places on tsunami tuesday, and republicans think THIS is what the voters want

we'll find out

but either way the progressive posse is gonna have to fight back from now on, at least for the foreseeable, on a less even playing field than it's accustomed to

what brought us here, bottom line: FT.com / US / Economy & Fed - US public pensions face $2,500bn shortfall

stay up

or we'll getcha on civility too
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I'll bet Obamacare figures into all this somehow too.
 
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