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Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Union workers private and public are the only working americans making a decent wage and maintaining a level of competence.

really? i'm doing fairly well for myself and I would say I am extremely competent, having been meritoriously promoted and then entrusted with a highly sensitive position. My younger brother works at the non-unionized Toyota Plant in Kentucky and he is doing very well for himself, having earned a job straight out of college that it takes most engineers a few years to make. my father is a minister, and though not wealthy, is certainly more than capable of supporting himself and saving for retirement. He has 4 languages - two of them dead - under his belt and has turned down promotion 3 times now; i would certainly say he is competent.

if anything, union membership tends to drive down wages and standards of living.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

of course you can help. you can, for example, post some numbers. The American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, for example, was the largest political donor of 2010, with over $87 million in 2010 alone; it oughtn't be that difficult to find some of their numbers. I would love to see it demonstrated that - of those $87 million - not a single dollar came from union dues, but rather from voluntary donations.



alright, and this is automatic, or do they have to apply to have it done.

others, of course, just have the state do the deduction for them:




i'm sure it is; you always raise more money when you candget it automatically deducted rather than expecting people to actually give the money to you.



i agree, it would be a violation of federal law. that is part of my point, that federal law here is unfairly tilted in favor of unions.

but you're not answering the question. why, if union membership can be made a condition of employment, can't lack of the same? why can the union place a condition on employment that the person actually hiring and paying the worker cannot?



and here you contradict yourself, saying that it should be the choice of the worker whether or not he wants to be in a union, but you only seem willing to limit his choices in favor of unionization.



i believe you know you have been caught out. whether it was your intent or no, your position is such that you are not, in fact, willing to maximize the choices of the worker. you are willing only that he be bent upon the path that you yourself have chosen.
wrong cp, ....if the shop is already unionized when the a person applies for a job, and they are offered a job, THEY HAVE A CHOICE THEN, TO ACCEPT THE JOB, AND WORK IN A UNION SHOP, OR TO SAY 'NO THANKS, NOT WORKING IN A UNION SHOP'....if after choosing to accept a job in a non unionized shop, and somewhere down the road, his /her co-workers decide to organize, and become unionized, in that process, the employee has a choice as well. if not happy with the new union, or just anti-union in general, if said person can find enogh support, they can get a decertification vote....the employee has choices all over the place. to pretend they don't is either speaking from lack of knowledge as to how the process and unions work, (which i believe to be the case with you cp) or just blatant dishonesty(which i don't believe to apply to you.) and no, not unionizing can't be made a condition of employment, as that choice is a right of the worker, and protected by federal law.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Reading your comment about the stupidity of people and looking at the photo to the left of it certainly causes one to pause.

You gotta admit, haymarket's got a point here :shrug:
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Your right however if you look at the numbers below you will see that the labor force increased between 2001 and 2009 and where more people found work the unemployment rate went up during the same period of time

Unemployment numbers are also effected by the two year extension to unemployment benefits, The housing bubble collapsed accounting for millions of lost jobs

The housing bubble has collapsed , the tax cuts have been extended for two years, where do you see work coming from?

If we are going to have a honest debate every thing has to be put on the table, other wise we are just repeating talking points, is that all this is about?

I am retired from private sector employment, My daughter is a doctor, I have one grandson they will survive the down turn in our economy, but what about all of those who have lost their jobs lost their homes and can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, if we continue to support failed policies and can't move pass rhetorical talking points we are going to continue to sink into an economic pit that we can not get out of

Actually unemployment numbers are understated because they don't count the discouraged workers and individual business owners and contract workers that lost their jobs as well. Some of those are counted in the U-6 numbers which shows a truer picture of the problem we have today.

I retired as well from the private sector after 35 years in the business world. I am a proponent of capitalism and free enterprise, not the massive expansion of govt. and the entitlement state promoted by liberalism. Our economy is consumer driven and with a growing population and labor market as you pointed out it is imperative that the Administration focus on incentive for the private sector which this Administration refuses to do. They are filled with ideologues who believe in a socialist utopia that never exists.

There are four components to GDP and consumer consumption is the major component and that is what creates most of the jobs. People with more of their own money create jobs through increasing demand and also reducing demand for govt. "Help" which really doesn't help at all but instead creates dependence.

The way to create jobs in this environment is to create incentive for new entities and inventions. The best way to do that is to reward individual wealth creation. Obama doesn't seem to understand that concept and believes govt. is the answer when govt. is the problem
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Actually unemployment numbers are understated because they don't count the discouraged workers and individual business owners and contract workers that lost their jobs as well. Some of those are counted in the U-6 numbers which shows a truer picture of the problem we have today.

I retired as well from the private sector after 35 years in the business world. I am a proponent of capitalism and free enterprise, not the massive expansion of govt. and the entitlement state promoted by liberalism. Our economy is consumer driven and with a growing population and labor market as you pointed out it is imperative that the Administration focus on incentive for the private sector which this Administration refuses to do. They are filled with ideologues who believe in a socialist utopia that never exists.

There are four components to GDP and consumer consumption is the major component and that is what creates most of the jobs. People with more of their own money create jobs through increasing demand and also reducing demand for govt. "Help" which really doesn't help at all but instead creates dependence.

The way to create jobs in this environment is to create incentive for new entities and inventions. The best way to do that is to reward individual wealth creation. Obama doesn't seem to understand that concept and believes govt. is the answer when govt. is the problem

I think we want the same solution and have some of the same concerns, you don't believe that the government "we the people" can create jobs, so we disagree on that issue. I believe that the government "we the people" can do things that will stimulate job growth but the stimulus needs to be dependant on the creation of jobs. That said I will repost a post I made before

I don’t believe that raising the retirement age for federal workers will reduce the federal deficit, why? The average annual salary for full-time federal government jobs now exceeds $81,258 and The average annual federal workers compensation, including pay plus benefits, now exceeds $123,049.

Raising the retirement age just keeps federal employees on the payroll longer, if any thing lower the retirement age and provide incentives to make that an attractive option to older higher paid federal employees. Don’t replace the employees who take the early retirement unless those jobs can not be combines with the duties of other employees

Where reducing the federal deficit is important, reducing the deficit will not create jobs, jump starting our economy needs to be the first priority. In order to jump start our economy we need jobs. Contrary to what you hear the government can create jobs not by directly being involved in the start up of new manufacturing companies but by providing financial incentives to people from the lowest wage earners to those who would actually have the capital to invest in manufacturing.

How? Simple repeal the tax cuts for all Americans, The tax cuts have not created the employment anticipated so why keep repeating the failed policies of the past? Repeal the tax cuts. After that if Americans want to realize the savings available let them buy American made or invest in the building in America. In other words use a tax credit to provide an incentive that will support the economy of America. If a person or corporation wants to support our economy provide the incentive based on whether they use the tax cuts in a manner that supports our economy

IE: Susie or John Doe would see $500 per year from the tax cuts, now if they want to see that $500.00 let them invest in American manufacturing by using their purchasing power to buy American or invest in American based manufacturing. If Mary or Jim Doe would see $93,000 dollars a year let them invest in American made or American based manufacturing

After ten years of watching trickle down trickle up it’s time to change course and find a way that ensures that the tax cuts work as intended to create American jobs. We do need private investors to create job opportunities but those investors need to be stimulated to invest in America using a tax credit to encourage investment would be a good start
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Can anyone explain why it's OK for a wealthy individual to donate $10,000 to his favorite candidate, but it's not OK for a thousand wage earners to donate $10 each for the same purpose?

Face it: We have a political system that is driven by money. It takes a lot of money to run for office, like it or not. Whoever has money has influence in the government. People making ordinary wages aren't going to have much of an impact individually.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

really? i'm doing fairly well for myself and I would say I am extremely competent, having been meritoriously promoted and then entrusted with a highly sensitive position. My younger brother works at the non-unionized Toyota Plant in Kentucky and he is doing very well for himself, having earned a job straight out of college that it takes most engineers a few years to make. my father is a minister, and though not wealthy, is certainly more than capable of supporting himself and saving for retirement. He has 4 languages - two of them dead - under his belt and has turned down promotion 3 times now; i would certainly say he is competent.

if anything, union membership tends to drive down wages and standards of living.


Labor jobs not management...again Union labor are the only working americans making a halfway living wage with some security.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Union workers private and public are the only working americans making a decent wage and maintaining a level of competence.

This is just plain incorrect.

Just one example of so many are the bus crashs that have killed dozens and wounded many more. Non union tour bus drivers UNDERpaid at 8.00 an hr with no benefits are the bottom of the barrel because no one else will take the responsibliity of 45 passengerss for that kind of wage.
There are dozens maybe hundreds of greyhounds going cross country daily and theres less fatal accidents..why? because they pay a decent wage and acctually have people with a brain not ex convicts that will take the job.

Just because someone is a felon who's done his time doesn't mean that he can't be a responsible citizen. What proof do you have that these two bus crashes were caused by driver incompetence? And that they were making $8 an hour?

The Corporations and the rich and influential are succesfully waging classwarfare from the top down. They have created envy and jealousy between public union workers and private non union workers. I find private sector workers MORONS for falling for this, they are the ones that are UNDER paid with no benefits, they should be striving to get what union workers are being paid, not trying to tear them down to their lvl with no benefits and no security.

The only people who are waging class warfare are unions members. It's one of their favorite talking points. The only thing that influences my personal thoughts about public union workers is the amount of money it costs me on my tax bill. You call private secor workers morons because they're underpaid with no benefits? Who says private workers are underpaid? Who says they get no benefits? You are living in your own little dream world.

Instead of waging war on working americans, why isnt the teaparty railing and attacking illegal immigration that costs us BILLIONS more than any union public sector workers that are providing us with services NONE of the rich will do themselves....I'm a long time republican who is totally disgusted with this new teaparty that is made of and only for the rich...

Now that's one I haven't heard before. The Teaparty is made of the rich? Support for this?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Labor jobs not management...again Union labor are the only working americans making a halfway living wage with some security.

You must be very insulated in your own world, lpast. Check with some Toyota workers....just off the top of my head.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

This is just plain incorrect.



Just because someone is a felon who's done his time doesn't mean that he can't be a responsible citizen. What proof do you have that these two bus crashes were caused by driver incompetence? And that they were making $8 an hour?



The only people who are waging class warfare are unions members. It's one of their favorite talking points. The only thing that influences my personal thoughts about public union workers is the amount of money it costs me on my tax bill. You call private secor workers morons because they're underpaid with no benefits? Who says private workers are underpaid? Who says they get no benefits? You are living in your own little dream world.



Now that's one I haven't heard before. The Teaparty is made of the rich? Support for this?


You cannot disprove anything I said by asking questions, that doesnt work...YOU disprove anything ive said and I will respond why your wrong
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

You cannot disprove anything I said by asking questions, that doesnt work...YOU disprove anything ive said and I will respond why your wrong

My job isn't to disprove your ascertains. Your job is to prove them. Otherwise? Just a lota' hot air.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

that is the reason right there...you are not interested in discussion...again, lets just say i know better and leave it at that, pointless having a conversation with you.


haymarket said:
Union masters!?!?!?!?!?

You really have no idea how unions work at all. The membership are the bosses of the union. We have monthly meetings and frequent elections. Even contract bargaining positions come from the rank and file.

You badly need to get educated on this issue if you are going to pontificate about it so much.

Manc Skipper said:
He don't need no edukashun... he simply channels Beck.


LOL, you guys are a hoot! Listen, although I may not have total insight to how ALL unions work, I was a Teamster for about 4 years many moons ago. Plus, I see what happens here because it is so transparent....All you need is a union leader saying something in the news and you guys trumpet it word for word like drones.


j-mac
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Labor jobs not management...again Union labor are the only working americans making a halfway living wage with some security.

What is your experience to make such a claim?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

LOL, you guys are a hoot! Listen, although I may not have total insight to how ALL unions work, I was a Teamster for about 4 years many moons ago. Plus, I see what happens here because it is so transparent....All you need is a union leader saying something in the news and you guys trumpet it word for word like drones.


j-mac
you are correct, you don't have total insight...you know precious little about how unions work....obviously in your 4 year stint in the teamsters, you were not a regular particiapant in meetings, i'd be shocked if you attended one meeting in that whole time, and obviously didnt take the time to educate yourself...tell me j, you have made your opinion well known, that you are anti-union, why take a job in a company that was unionized? seems to me that would have went against everything you stand for. certainly with your ' i don't need no stinkin' union' 'pull myself up by my bootstraps' way of thinking, being the resourceful guy that you are, you could have said 'no thanks' and went and found a non-union job...so...why did you stick around that long?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

you are correct, you don't have total insight...you know precious little about how unions work....obviously in your 4 year stint in the teamsters, you were not a regular particiapant in meetings, i'd be shocked if you attended one meeting in that whole time, and obviously didnt take the time to educate yourself...tell me j, you have made your opinion well known, that you are anti-union, why take a job in a company that was unionized? seems to me that would have went against everything you stand for. certainly with your ' i don't need no stinkin' union' 'pull myself up by my bootstraps' way of thinking, being the resourceful guy that you are, you could have said 'no thanks' and went and found a non-union job...so...why did you stick around that long?

Amazing how you believe unions are so great when their numbers continue to decline. Wonder why?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Amazing how you believe unions are so great when their numbers continue to decline. Wonder why?
so who rattled your chain? i believe the question was directed to j, he is a big boy, he can answer for himself...move along now.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

so who rattled your chain? i believe the question was directed to j, he is a big boy, he can answer for himself...move along now.

LOL, didn't know this was your own private forum. Better check with the moderators to get the rules changed. You want a personal discussion with someone, take it private.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

LOL, didn't know this was your own private forum. Better check with the moderators to get the rules changed. You want a personal discussion with someone, take it private.
like i said, who rattled your chain, the question is directed to j..move along.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

like i said, who rattled your chain, the question is directed to j..move along.

Don't blame you for not wanting to answer why union membership is dropping all over the country. Seems that more and more people don't see the benefits that you see. Could it be that you aren't as versed as you think you are?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Don't blame you for not wanting to answer why union membership is dropping all over the country. Seems that more and more people don't see the benefits that you see. Could it be that you aren't as versed as you think you are?
you must be a little slow on the uptake today, unless your name is j, move along.....quit being the forum leg humper....do it again and i'll take ya to the vet and have you neutered.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

you must be a little slow on the uptake today, unless your name is j, move along.....quit being the forum leg humper....do it again and i'll take ya to the vet and have you neutered.

So you don't have an answer? Fine, I knew that all along. As is typical of you and your one line responses, you offer nothing. Some people definitely need unions and are overly dependent on them. You appear to be one of those people who relies on the union to keep you employed. Doesn't look like you understand the difference between public and private unions and collective bargaining differences. Unions caused the destruction of Detroit and it appears you won't be happy until they destroy states as well.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

So you don't have an answer? Fine, I knew that all along. As is typical of you and your one line responses, you offer nothing. Some people definitely need unions and are overly dependent on them. You appear to be one of those people who relies on the union to keep you employed. Doesn't look like you understand the difference between public and private unions and collective bargaining differences. Unions caused the destruction of Detroit and it appears you won't be happy until they destroy states as well.

alright rover, off to the vet with you...i'm gonna use your testicles for a door knocker...move along, i've no interest in a discussion(or lack of one) with you...your not worth the time. i'll wait for j to return
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Moderator's Warning:
You two can play nice or be removed from the thread.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Moderator's Warning:
You two can play nice or be removed from the thread.
cool...i'll wait for j mac to return
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

alright rover, off to the vet with you...i'm gonna use your testicles for a door knocker...move along, i've no interest in a discussion(or lack of one) with you...your not worth the time. i'll wait for j to return

Interesting numbers on union membership from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Notice the difference between public and private sector union membership. Says a lot about unions

Union Members Summary
 
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