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Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

1. Democrats and Republicans both feed greedy ****s (I would never deny this), I have a hard time getting over the fact that the greediest of them all love the Republican Party and not to mention that least greedy of them all are Democrats who encourage the government to increase their taxes.

Wait...so The republicans are the greedy ones for reducing taxes and Democrats are the least greedy for wanting to increase taxes???? Where the hell is the logic in that? As my wife would say..."That's insane troll logic".

2. Being an independent doesn't meant that you don't subscribe to any conservative values or make any conservative arguments. Independent doesn't mean neutral.

No what being Independent means is that we talk on the issues...not on the party. We don't care what party supports X issue. We care about the issue itself. As such if we happen to support an issue that Democrats love and Republicans hate, we don't care who hates us for it and who likes us for it. The same goes if Republicans like what we are supporting and Democrats hate it. Issues are not about an ideology based on politics. Issues are about reality on what needs to be done/not done.

3. I've studied plenty. I'm glad you make businesses the poor little guys who were forced to leave the country because the unions had to many demands. I've heard this argument made many a time...by conservatives. Businesses (not all, but many) are greedy - that's why they move their business to places where they can underpay their workers and let them work in horrible conditions - see a famous case - Nike.

Of course, ignore reality so that you can continue along your party line. As for what you actually said...Like I said..Unions are only PART of the reasons that they leave. I never said it was the only reason or the main cause. I said it was PART of the reasons. You need to widen your studies.

4. Like I said, the U.S. is capable of meeting the demands of the unions because they ****ing agreed to make monetary concessions so long as they could keep collective bargaining...Walker doesn't care.

Monetary concessions made by politicians that just wanted to thier support to get re-elected. And you're right...apparently Walker doesn't care. It is quite apparent that Walker is willing to do things that might hurt his chances at re-election yet will benefit his state. As such...Kudos Walker. We need more people like him.

5. It is interesting how they are so adamant about attacking working class salaries and not adamant about attacking wealthy people who can afford to give a little extra in taxes. Why are working class people supposed to sacrifice but not wealthy people who still get multi-million dollar bonuses and lower taxes.

Do you think that you are entitled to the money that wealthy people have just because they can afford a bit more than you?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Well, unless the Dems don't plan on returning to the legislature until this issue has wound its way through the courts, I think that'll end up being a moot point.

agreed, but that is the only rule violation that could possibly stick, and it wouldn't stick for long.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

I am really surprised by this, actually. It's almost unbelievable. I think that Republicans probably dotted their i's and crossed their t's on this....so it'll probably stand. Now we wait to see if unions can convince enough average Wisconsinites to recall some of the Republicans.....and if the Republicans recall less Dems...and roll back the legislation. Personally, I don't think that's going to be particularly easy. Democracy in action, I guess.

As for the tactic, I say, Good for them. Governor Walker, you rock.

And if the Democratic legislators now return to Wisconsin, the first order of business tomorrow morning should be to bring this legislation to a vote again, just to be absolutely sure.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights without Dems



I don't know if they're cowards, they just risked a massive recall to carry out the agenda of a few billionaire GOP supporters...

I'd say they're just dumb cheeseheads.


Dude, both parties are controlled by the same people. Check out OpenSecrets.org: Money in Politics -- See Who's Giving & Who's Getting to see who funds them.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

And if the Democratic legislators now return to Wisconsin, the first order of business tomorrow morning should be to bring this legislation to a vote again, just to be absolutely sure.

Actually, the minority leader is meeting with the Attorney General tomorrow, with the intention of filing a lawsuit. The final decision is going to be made by the courts.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

You what's really dumb? Believing that good teachers are 'occassionally' fired or targeted (see teachers who refused to go along with the ever popular government tactic of inflating grades to feign improvement)

Frankly I don't give a god damn. The schools are there to educate the students, not to provide teachers with jobs. I only care about their job security inasmuch as it encourages qualified people to become teachers in the first place.

theplaydrive said:
and that the worst teachers are common enough to need to change the system.

Have you ever set foot in an inner-city school? I have. There are some schools where over half the teachers are awful.

Personally I went to high school in a relatively well-off suburban area, and even in my school, there were plenty of bad teachers. Bad teachers certainly are common, and are the single biggest school-related factor that can impede a child's education.

theplayone said:
If government really cared about getting rid of 'bad' teachers, they would have fired all of the non-tenured ones...which they haven't.

Huh? You're saying all non-tenured are bad? Or that there aren't any bad teachers with tenure? :confused:

The bottom line of your post is simple: It's all about the teachers. Who gives a **** about the students, the reason for the schools' existence is to be a make-work program for teachers. :roll:
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Four quick thoughts:

1. Choices have consequences. According to news reports, a compromise formula was floated by the Governor during the weekend, but was rejected. The legislative action today leaves the public workers unions in a worse position than if the Democratic Party lawmakers had accepted the compromise.

Of course, the Republican maneuver will have its own consequences. Recall petitions underway point to one risk. The regular electoral process points to another.

2. The move was about leverage. Substantive fiscal concessions were agreed. No change in collective bargaining was required. But politics is not just about finances. Power does matter.

Specifically, the proposal sought to shift the balance of bargaining power to the State and its municipalities. The implied intent is to allow the State and municipalities greater ability to achieve necessary savings through spending/benefit reductions/limitations so as to avoid tax hikes. In other words, the idea was to alter the bargaining landscape to make the Republican approach to fiscal consolidation (spending side, not tax side) easier to achieve.

The move was also about the Governor's gaining leverage for future fights that might well lie ahead. What he will do with the opportunity any greater leverage affords him remains to be seen. That greater leverage is not assured, as it is possible that Democrats could now turn every piece of legislation into an almost existential fight. If so, the legislative process could become even more divisive and the pace of legislation could slow dramatically.

In any case, power is a dimension of politics, as it is in business, foreign policy, etc. That there was a power dimension at play is not all that surprising.

3. There is political risk. If elections were held today, recent polling indicates that Governor Walker would lose. The legislative fait accompli could intensify and sustain opposition to the Governor and Republicans, in general, leading to dramatic electoral changes. However, that outcome is not assured. If the State undergoes a dramatic turnaround in its fiscal picture and the State's economy does well, the Governor and Republicans could well overcome the current fallout from the legislative maneuver.

4. The outcome in Wisconsin could give political leaders in other states greater leverage in their dealings with public workers unions. The unions, eager to avoid a Wisconsin-style loss of collective bargaining rights, could be more willing to compromise on health and pension benefits than would otherwise be the case. For example, New York's public unions might be more willing to accept Governor Cuomo's proposed one-year salary freeze than they have been to date. At the same time, witnessing the polarizing debate that racked Wisconsin's political scene, political leaders could attempt a softer route than one that targets collective bargaining rights.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Actually, the minority leader is meeting with the Attorney General tomorrow, with the intention of filing a lawsuit. The final decision is going to be made by the courts.

If they meet in Wisconsin, hopefully the minority leader is arrested and summoned to the Capitol, along with anyone else who has returned. Then they can vote again and there won't be any question about its legality.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

massive cuts in military personel that GOP failed to do even though the cold war had ended.

Right.....and without those "massive military cuts".....the economy would have been in the ****ter during the 1990's.....

.....all hail Clinton.....our first black saviour......
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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Can you name one Clinton Policy that was responsible for the Economic boom of the 90's?.
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.........down goes another.
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Umm...the first budget that he proposed which every Republican voted against and yet contributed heavily to the decline of the budget deficit and to the surplus that he left George W. Bush. It was called: the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

You were forced too because I and others like me have been pointing out how... unconservative many of your views are. I applaud your move to a more honest labeling of where and who you are.

When he finally admits he's slightly liberal, I'll applaud.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Attorney Robert Dreps, an expert on the state open meetings law, said he did not believe the conference committee could meet with such short notice.

State law generally requires a 24-hour notice for public meetings, but can be called with just two hours notice when more notice is impossible or impractical, said Dreps, who has represented the Journal Sentinel in the past.

“I can’t imagine how they can meet that standard,” he said.

GOP rams anti-union bill through Wis. Senate - Politics - More politics - msnbc.com

I'm certainly not an expert. But, i've been reading about this meeting since early this morning. So, public notice was provided for well in advance of 2 hours:

(3) Public notice of every meeting of a governmental body shall be given at least 24 hours prior to the commencement of such meeting unless for good cause such notice is impossible or impractical, in which case shorter notice may be given, but in no case may the notice be provided less than 2 hours in advance of the meeting.

Additionally, i'm not so sure it would be hard to prove that it would be impractical to provide the notice sooner. Shrug, guess we'll find out.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

And if the Democratic legislators now return to Wisconsin, the first order of business tomorrow morning should be to bring this legislation to a vote again, just to be absolutely sure.

So pretty much either way...........

Scott-walker.jpg


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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Umm...the first budget that he proposed which every Republican voted against and yet contributed heavily to the decline of the budget deficit and to the surplus that he left George W. Bush. It was called: the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993.

there was no surplus. in no year did the national debt go down.

The Myth of the Clinton Surplus
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Umm...the first budget that he proposed which every Republican voted against and yet contributed heavily to the decline of the budget deficit and to the surplus that he left George W. Bush. It was called: the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993.

So without the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993.......the 1990's economy would have tanked.

.....lol. Are you begining to realize BJ had nothing to do with the economic boom?
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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

If they meet in Wisconsin, hopefully the minority leader is arrested and summoned to the Capitol, along with anyone else who has returned. Then they can vote again and there won't be any question about its legality.

We might not agree with their tactics but AFAIK they haven't broken any laws. As such I wouldn't agree with them being arrested. And Arresting them only to deliver them up to the Capitol and then forced to vote is imo nothing more than coersion. So I disagree with that even more.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

It will stand up if the quorum requirements are only for funding.

That's why they couldn't vote on the entire bill.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

We might not agree with their tactics but AFAIK they haven't broken any laws. As such I wouldn't agree with them being arrested. And Arresting them only to deliver them up to the Capitol and then forced to vote is imo nothing more than coersion. So I disagree with that even more.

As far as I know, virtually every state (including Wisconsin) allows for the legislature to call a quorum and summon all absent members. That's why they all fled to Illinois in the first place, instead of just staying home and not showing up for Congress.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Frankly I don't give a god damn. The schools are there to educate the students, not to provide teachers with jobs. I only care about their job security inasmuch as it encourages qualified people to become teachers in the first place.



Have you ever set foot in an inner-city school? I have. There are some schools where over half the teachers are awful.

Personally I went to high school in a relatively well-off suburban area, and even in my school, there were plenty of bad teachers. Bad teachers certainly are common, and are the single biggest school-related factor that can impede a child's education.



Huh? You're saying all non-tenured are bad? Or that there aren't any bad teachers with tenure? :confused:

The bottom line of your post is simple: It's all about the teachers. Who gives a **** about the students, the reason for the schools' existence is to be a make-work program for teachers. :roll:

Yes, I have set foot in an inner city school. One of my relatives worked in one and when I didn't have school, they would take me with them...I have spent many many days and hours in inner city schools. Furthermore, before he died, in fact, my father was the principal of an inner-city school - rated one of the best in the city. I know a lot about what happens in them, how government treats the students, the incompetent policies government lets go in there and yes, even a few incompetent teachers (most of whom do NOT have tenure).

I also know that many of the teachers who choose to go to inner city school care more about the students than any of the faux student support people on this board and they fight for collective bargaining alongside with fighting government neglect of the students who they buy supplies for.

I meant to say that if they cared about the students, they would have fired all of the INCOMPETENT (I forgot a word) non-tenured teachers, which they haven't...at all.

Oh as far as my bottom line: you have no idea who I care about and who those teachers care about. Get off of your high horse. I was lucky enough to have a great education and it pisses me OFF when I see other people screwed out of that simply because they were born into a low-income family.
 
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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

As far as I know, virtually every state (including Wisconsin) allows for the legislature to call a quorum and summon all absent members. That's why they all fled to Illinois in the first place, instead of just staying home and not showing up for Congress.

But does calling for a quorum require them to show up no matter where they are? Or is it up to them if they show up or not? Calling for a quorom and attaining one are two different beasts.

Edit note: clairfied...
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

But does calling for a quorum require them to show up no matter where they are? Or is it up to them if they show up or not? Calling for a quorom and attaining one are two different beasts.

Edit note: clairfied...

The rules require them to show up, which they didn't. So, on the other side of the coin, you have the reason that 8 Democrats are among the 16 legislators that recall efforts are underway against.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

So without the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993.......the 1990's economy would have tanked.

.....lol. Are you begining to realize BJ had nothing to do with the economic boom?
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When did I say that? I was asked to name a Clinton policy that contributed to the economic boom. I did - and it was one that contributed greatly. Please tell me where I said that without that policy the economy would have tanked? Please tell me.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

But does calling for a quorum require them to show up no matter where they are? Or is it up to them if they show up or not? Calling for a quorom and attaining one are two different beasts.

Edit note: clairfied...

Yes, assuming that the parliamentary procedures are roughly the same in most state legislatures (I don't know what the rule is in Wisconsin specifically). But generally speaking, if they call for a quorum and members fail to show up, they can be arrested and forcibly taken to the Capitol. They fled to Illinois so that the Wisconsin police couldn't round them up.
 
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