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Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

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Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Okay chuckles, let's hear your suggestion. And while you're at in, add the trillion we are giving away to the rich each decade and you might have something that could begin to pay down our National debt.

Sorry I took so long, real life sometimes needs tending to .

Okay here is My suggestion.

Top US Marginal Income Tax Rates, 1913--2003 (TruthAndPolitics.org)

Study that chart... and see what each tax cut, did to the top bracket, and what each increase did the to the top bracket.

Now lets compromise.... lets not increase the tax percentage at all, and I believe this could get enough support to pass both houses, lets just drop that “taxable income over” figure back to $200,000 that Obama wants to use. Obama likes to use 5% of the population making more then that … I disagree with that number so will cut it in half. That effects only 2.5% of our working people. And they would be paying $60,760.(2/3s of that 91,000 you constantly harp about) more each .. that equals roughly 225 billion dollars in added revenue.

Now for this tax increase, of 225 billion, I want not 6 billion that dem's want, not 60 billion that rep's want but 112.5 billion dollars in cuts on this years budget.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

I can settle this, easily, what Wisconsin should do, it fold up their public school system, go to all private schools. They could put each public school up for sale, (helps with their deficit) That part of the property tax that is for the school system, is given back to the parents in the for of a voucher one month before the start of the school year.

There problem solved, teachers can then work out if they want to unionize or not, the state is not paying them anything.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Well earn things in questionable ways, gaurantee certain profits, bail them out when they mess up, rob employees of pension plans, etc.

How many companies fit into that category? You seem to focus on the exception rather than the rule. Large companies make up 20% of the workforce but they get most of the ire. Tell me what companies do with the money they make? Compare that to the public sector and what products thus wealth do the public unions create? If this is what you learned in school, you should demand a refund. Profits and wealth creation aren't bad!!
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

How many companies fit into that category? You seem to focus on the exception rather than the rule. Large companies make up 20% of the workforce but they get most of the ire. Tell me what companies do with the money they make? Compare that to the public sector and what products thus wealth do the public unions create? If this is what you learned in school, you should demand a refund. Profits and wealth creation aren't bad!!

Profit and wealth creation are not bad in a free market environment. But free market is not what we have. We have corporate capitalism which then preferentially through government law and regulation select out specific entities in the economic sector to promote. In such a system profit and wealth "creation" is isolated to the very very top of the population, within less than a percent of the populace. They start gaining all the gains, and everyone else loses. That is currently where we are at. And we can clearly see that in the aggregated statistics of wealth creation. The poor get poorer, the middle class is shrinking, and the top like 0.5% are becoming obscenly rich. In true free market, people don't tend to get that rich as no one is actually worth that amount of money. And free market creates plenty of economic mobility; the poor can become richer, the rich can become poorer and you must input work constantly into the system to maintain your status.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Sorry I took so long, real life sometimes needs tending to .

No problem.

Okay here is My suggestion.

Top US Marginal Income Tax Rates, 1913--2003 (TruthAndPolitics.org)

Study that chart... and see what each tax cut, did to the top bracket, and what each increase did the to the top bracket.

What did they do? I'm getting what you mean.

Now lets compromise.... lets not increase the tax percentage at all, and I believe this could get enough support to pass both houses, lets just drop that “taxable income over” figure back to $200,000 that Obama wants to use. Obama likes to use 5% of the population making more then that … I disagree with that number so will cut it in half. That effects only 2.5% of our working people. And they would be paying $60,760.(2/3s of that 91,000 you constantly harp about) more each .. that equals roughly 225 billion dollars in added revenue.

Now for this tax increase, of 225 billion, I want not 6 billion that dem's want, not 60 billion that rep's want but 112.5 billion dollars in cuts on this years budget.

That would certainly be a start but I do not think the GOP would ever go along with this.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Profit and wealth creation are not bad in a free market environment. But free market is not what we have. We have corporate capitalism which then preferentially through government law and regulation select out specific entities in the economic sector to promote. In such a system profit and wealth "creation" is isolated to the very very top of the population, within less than a percent of the populace. They start gaining all the gains, and everyone else loses. That is currently where we are at. And we can clearly see that in the aggregated statistics of wealth creation. The poor get poorer, the middle class is shrinking, and the top like 0.5% are becoming obscenly rich. In true free market, people don't tend to get that rich as no one is actually worth that amount of money. And free market creates plenty of economic mobility; the poor can become richer, the rich can become poorer and you must input work constantly into the system to maintain your status.

You talk like corporations are individual entities but aren't, they are people, people run corporations, people hire other people, people make products that are sold for a profit, taxes are collected on those profits, charitable giving is provided by those profits, dividends to shareholders are generated by those profits. Yours seems to be a zero sum game where someone wins at the expense of someone else. Nothing could be further from the truth.

You seem to be very jealous of what others have instead of focusing on what you control. Why do you care what someone else makes? A better question though is why aren't you trying to become one of those rich people so you can be demonized by others?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

I can settle this, easily, what Wisconsin should do, it fold up their public school system, go to all private schools. They could put each public school up for sale, (helps with their deficit) That part of the property tax that is for the school system, is given back to the parents in the for of a voucher one month before the start of the school year.

There problem solved, teachers can then work out if they want to unionize or not, the state is not paying them anything.

LOL! Sure, then we can turn over our government to direct corporate rule and just eliminate the middle man, us. Sounds like the ultimate solution! :sun
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

You talk like corporations are individual entities but aren't, they are people, people run corporations, people hire other people, people make products that are sold for a profit, taxes are collected on those profits, charitable giving is provided by those profits, dividends to shareholders are generated by those profits. Yours seems to be a zero sum game where someone wins at the expense of someone else. Nothing could be further from the truth.

You seem to be very jealous of what others have instead of focusing on what you control. Why do you care what someone else makes? A better question though is why aren't you trying to become one of those rich people so you can be demonized by others?

Corporations are treated like legal people. Remember the whole SCOTUS ruling on McCain/Fiengold which was the exact opposite ruling that it should have been? Corporations themselves are not actually individuals. That is why, in fact, corporations have no rights. It's not that I'm jealous, that's just a ridiculous and untrue statement that seems most likely bent on deflection. It is a statement of our current system. I like free market capitalism, we do not have it. I would like to drive us into the free market state. Being part of the problem doesn't achieve those ends.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Corporations are treated like legal people. Remember the whole SCOTUS ruling on McCain/Fiengold which was the exact opposite ruling that it should have been? Corporations themselves are not actually individuals. That is why, in fact, corporations have no rights. It's not that I'm jealous, that's just a ridiculous and untrue statement that seems most likely bent on deflection. It is a statement of our current system. I like free market capitalism, we do not have it. I would like to drive us into the free market state. Being part of the problem doesn't achieve those ends.

Corporations are legal entities designed to reduce individual liability. They are run by individuals as corporations do not make decisions, people do. Now respond to the rest of my post regarding corporations paying taxes, individuals in those corporations paying taxes, corporations paying dividends and donating to charities? A lot of seniors rely on dividends from those evil corporations.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

LOL! Sure, then we can turn over our government to direct corporate rule and just eliminate the middle man, us. Sounds like the ultimate solution! :sun

Not really sure what you mean by that .... how is that much different them our college system today ?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Corporations are legal entities designed to reduce individual liability. They are run by individuals as corporations do not make decisions, people do. Now respond to the rest of my post regarding corporations paying taxes, individuals in those corporations paying taxes, corporations paying dividends and donating to charities? A lot of seniors rely on dividends from those evil corporations.

The return they have on corporate capitalism endorsed through the government is larger than the taxes they pay. Much of this is old school types of clubs where board of directors have power, but they're all from the same group. The actual stock holders have very little input (they are the company owners). People donate to charities, but that won't make me ignore the perks they get from improper government law and regulation. Maybe a lot of "seniors rely on dividends" (they don't have to pay it out, BTW, Buffet's company doesn't), but it's still a system of corporate capitalism. In free market those people can do just as good if not better. Corporations are not inherently good or evil, they are just corporations. However, they are also nothing special. For every rich person, I bet I can find 100's at the least to replace them who can probably do a better job if they are able to participate equally in the system. Rich people are rich, they are not better than anyone else. A corporation is just a corporation, it is not better than any small business.

Free market capitalism should be the goal to strive for. I'm surprised a "conservative" wouldn't agree.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Not really sure what you mean by that .... how is that much different them our college system today ?

Primary and secondary education are arguably the most important function of state and federal government. Why on earth would we want to turn over the education of our future generations to corporations?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

You talk like corporations are individual entities but aren't, they are people, people run corporations, people hire other people, people make products that are sold for a profit, taxes are collected on those profits, charitable giving is provided by those profits, dividends to shareholders are generated by those profits. Yours seems to be a zero sum game where someone wins at the expense of someone else. Nothing could be further from the truth.

You seem to be very jealous of what others have instead of focusing on what you control. Why do you care what someone else makes? A better question though is why aren't you trying to become one of those rich people so you can be demonized by others?

I just really don't get the demonizing of the rich. I don't recall that in my younger years.
When I was young, I remember those who were thought the least of were the able bodied ones who lived off welfare and foodstamps.
Wealth was something to strive for with hard work. People took pride in being a good provider for their families. They were considered an asset to society.
Now they are demonized as if they are the ones not earning their own way.
I just don't understand the thinking.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

I just really don't get the demonizing of the rich. I don't recall that in my younger years.
When I was young, I remember those who were thought the least of were the able bodied ones who lived off welfare and foodstamps.
Wealth was something to strive for with hard work. People took pride in being a good provider for their families. They were considered an asset to society.
Now they are demonized as if they are the ones not earning their own way.
I just don't understand the thinking.

It's not "demonizing the rich". The rich just ain't special just because they're rich. They should be treated the same in the eyes of the law. No special perks or privilege, You're rich, you don't need any of that.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

How long can a family that makes $5,000 spend $7,000 a month?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

The return they have on corporate capitalism endorsed through the government is larger than the taxes they pay. Much of this is old school types of clubs where board of directors have power, but they're all from the same group. The actual stock holders have very little input (they are the company owners). People donate to charities, but that won't make me ignore the perks they get from improper government law and regulation. Maybe a lot of "seniors rely on dividends" (they don't have to pay it out, BTW, Buffet's company doesn't), but it's still a system of corporate capitalism. In free market those people can do just as good if not better. Corporations are not inherently good or evil, they are just corporations. However, they are also nothing special. For every rich person, I bet I can find 100's at the least to replace them who can probably do a better job if they are able to participate equally in the system. Rich people are rich, they are not better than anyone else. A corporation is just a corporation, it is not better than any small business.

Free market capitalism should be the goal to strive for. I'm surprised a "conservative" wouldn't agree.

I hope I am around when you learn that you aren't nearly as smart as you think you are. I don't find corporations to be evil because I recognize that corporations are a very small part of the work force and most corporations are good corporate citizens. We have a potential labor force of 155 million people, large corporations employ about 20% according to bls. so your fixation with corporations and ignorance of our real economy is quite staggering.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

I hope I am around when you learn that you aren't nearly as smart as you think you are. I don't find corporations to be evil because I recognize that corporations are a very small part of the work force and most corporations are good corporate citizens. We have a potential labor force of 155 million people, large corporations employ about 20% according to bls. so your fixation with corporations and ignorance of our real economy is quite staggering.

So essentially your only real rebuttal to me these past several posts has been to call me stupid. Nice. But not really doing anything to advance your argument. And if you would read (I know, crazy concept right?) you would have seen that I do not designate corporations as evil. That's just another ridiculous statement on your part to deflect. My "fixation" is that in the eyes of the law, all should be equal. Pretty absurd eh? Well at least I know you're not committed to free market capitalism, I'll keep that in mind.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

So essentially your only real rebuttal to me these past several posts has been to call me stupid. Nice. But not really doing anything to advance your argument. And if you would read (I know, crazy concept right?) you would have seen that I do not designate corporations as evil. That's just another ridiculous statement on your part to deflect. My "fixation" is that in the eyes of the law, all should be equal. Pretty absurd eh? Well at least I know you're not committed to free market capitalism, I'll keep that in mind.

Never called you stupid because I don't think you know any better. You will grow up, promise and then will realize whether or not you were stupid in your younger years. Free market capitalism is in direct conflict with liberalism for in free market capitalism success is rewarded not redistributed or demonized like liberals do. Too many liberals want equal outcome, not equal opportunity and that is where the entire public union issue comes in. Public and private unions have nothing invested in the success of a state or a business and will always strive for equal outcome or a biggier piece of the pie. In private business that could put the business out of business but in the public sector that just is greater burden on the taxpayers. States don't go out of business and states cannot declare bankruptcy. Wish they could.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

I'm already "grown up" and well more intelligent that you're willing to give credit for. I guess someone with a different opinion than you must "not know better", huh? Way to be conceited. I'm not a modern liberal either, free market capitalism is well in line with my political ideology. I'm looking for equal opportunity, that everyone in the eyes of the law be treated equally. That's in part a free market ideal. Corporate capitalism, which we have and you apparently are endorsing here, is not that. It's a closed off system where economic mobility gets taken down and the government is used for the proliferation and promotion of certain corporate entities.

It's also absurd to state that unions have no interest in the success of the business, of course they do. They're main concern is with the compensation for labor performed by their members. If the business goes away, there is no income to the workers. Unions are a lot like government, a necessary evil. If you do not control them and regulate them properly, they will grow out of control and begin operating in terms they were not meant to do. Just like government will. But fundamentally, there is nothing wrong with it as it is just laborers using their power of contract to negotiate better returns for their labor.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

I just really don't get the demonizing of the rich. I don't recall that in my younger years.

In your youth, we had a progressive tax system that paid the bills and did not penalize the middle class and reward the wealthy. BTW, no one is demonizing the rich, we are demonizing the slashing of this country's progressive tax system.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

It's not "demonizing the rich". The rich just ain't special just because they're rich. They should be treated the same in the eyes of the law. No special perks or privilege, You're rich, you don't need any of that.

Hope you aren't talking about me here. When it comes to money, I'm about as poor as a church mouse.

Where would be without the rich?
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

In your youth, we had a progressive tax system that paid the bills and did not penalize the middle class and reward the wealthy. BTW, no one is demonizing the rich, we are demonizing the slashing of this country's progressive tax system.

We need to burn the thousands and thousands of pages of our tax code. All of it. Then no one would get special favors.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

Hope you aren't talking about me here. When it comes to money, I'm about as poor as a church mouse.

Where would be without the rich?

It was more of a generalized use of "you". Sorry.

Where would we be without the rich? Where we are now. There's always going to be rich people, it's fine. But being rich doesn't make you special. You're (and again, this is generalized use of "you") just rich, you can buy more stuff have nicer things; but you're still replaceable.
 
Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

We need to burn the thousands and thousands of pages of our tax code. All of it. Then no one would get special favors.

It would most certainly help if we clarified our tax structure, we could move to something different too if it behooves us to do so. As it stands, income should be income and there shouldn't be alternate definitions of income to get into a smaller tax bracket.
 
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