NASA scientist finds evidence of alien life(edited)

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

It's going to be reviewed within the next 3 days by 100+ scientists.
Let's see what they say.

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

Walter said:

Faith personified. Now faith is the substance of things HOPED FOR, the evidence of things not yet seen. Philosophy...not Science.

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It's not "faith" it's a hypotheses. There is a critical difference: a hypotheses is changed when new facts are introduced.

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

donsutherland1 said:

Too many flaws:

1. The paper was not peer reviewed.
2. No DNA could be extracted, so one can't tell if, in fact if there were microorganisms, whether their orign was from earth.
3. For the length of time the meteorite was lying on the earth, it almost certainly was tainted with earthly microorganisms.
4. There's no way to demonstrate that the apparent remains were, in fact, once living microorganisms. Other origins are possible.

In short, although the meteorite had orgins in space, the paper cannot credibly conclude that any fossilized remains of microorganisms (if that's what the fossilized remains are) in the meteorite also had origins in space.

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Again, I wholly believe that alien life is out there somewhere. But these are the problems I had with the findings. What's worrisome is nowhere in the article does it say what led the researcher to conclude the organism was extraterrestrial in origin, other than "I cut it out of a meteorite."

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

joe six-pack said:

NASA scientists discover evidence of alien life

Evidence of a form of life (micro-organisms) not originating on Earth and unfamiliar to our scientists have been discovered. The research is open to the scientific community and although this has yet to be confirmed by a third-party, we have proof and the next step is to attempt to disprove the hypothesis. But considering fossil evidence was found in a meteorite, originating from outer-space, I highly doubt it will be disproved. Alien life exists as a scientific fact.

Comments?

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Question? Without anything to compare this supposed discovery with....how can anyone even attempt to present a valid hypothesis might less claim that such speculation is a FACT of SCIENCE? Does this mean that the human footprints that were found in coal seams in several states (Ky., Missouri, Ill., Pa., Val, Wva., and even in the Rockie Mts) prove that humans existed during the Carboniferous period on the Geological Scale?

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

joe six-pack said:

NASA scientists discover evidence of alien life

Evidence of a form of life (micro-organisms) not originating on Earth and unfamiliar to our scientists have been discovered. The research is open to the scientific community and although this has yet to be confirmed by a third-party, we have proof and the next step is to attempt to disprove the hypothesis. But considering fossil evidence was found in a meteorite, originating from outer-space, I highly doubt it will be disproved. Alien life exists as a scientific fact.

Comments?

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This thing asked me out last Friday for a drink :shock:

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

DiAnna said:

"I am the very model of a scientist Salarian!
I've studied species, Turian, Asari, and Batarian.
I'm quite good at genetics (as a subset of biology),
because I am an expert (which I know is a tautology).

My xenoscience studies range from urban to agrarian -
I am the very model of a scientist Salarian!"

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Professor Tom Lehrer? :mrgreen:

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

joe six-pack said:

It's not "faith" it's a hypotheses. There is a critical difference: a hypotheses is changed when new facts are introduced.

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Then how can such even be suggested as being a FACT? If something new is introduced and the (wink, wink) "hypthesis" is changed...then the first SPECULATION was a LIE..no? If not, enlighten us...what do you call a statement that is presented as truth and later turns out to an UNTRUTH? Whatever it is...ITS NOT PHYSICAL SCIENCE as a Fact of Science is based upon Observed, Reproducible, experimentation that produces constant results with each conducted EXPERIMENT. What? Are you suggesting that Science is presenting a speculation as truth until a better LIE comes up? I have never known of either a "Law of Physics" or a "Fact of Science"..wink, wink...CHANGING. The only thing I see changing is the mind of the one making the suggestion....i.e,. Philosophy when all the evidence is held only between the ears.

I think I see what you are getting at. When someone uses PRIMA FACIE evidence to from an OPINION that he/she accepts as TRUTH beyond the reason of doubt, based upon the available evidence...in Science its called an HYPOTHESIS, but in Religion its called BLIND FAITH.

Another question? Why, after almost 200 years has no new evidence been produced to PROVE vertical evolution as anything more than a THEORY? I mean, it looks to me as if every time that such an IDEA was falsified by the Scientific Method of Observed, Reproduced, Experimentation without ONE successful Experiment demonstrating that LIFE can be generated Spontaneously from DEAD MATTER....just say'n, one would think that its time to DREAM UP a better lie instead of continually HOPING that New Evidence will be found....ONE DAY. I still fail to see how HOPING for this NEW EVIDENCE is not a form of FAITH....but UNTIL THEN....it must be accepted as a FACT? LMPAO

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

The photograph in the OP is not a photo of what this guy claims he found. One of the images from the meteorite is below



The guy's paper is bunk. It makes an extraordinary claim with very thin, subjective evidence, was published in a junk, non-peer reviewed journal, and NASA's astrobiology director has come out against the guy's claims

"That is a claim that Mr Hoover has been making for some years," said Carl Pilcher, director of NASA's Astrobiology Institute.

"I am not aware of any support from other meteorite researchers for this rather extraordinary claim that this evidence of microbes was present in the meteorite before the meteorite arrived on Earth and and was not the result of contamination after the meteorite arrived on Earth," he told AFP.

[...]

Paul Hertz, chief scientist of NASA's Science Mission Directorate in Washington, also issued a statement saying NASA did not support Hoover's findings.

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Link

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

danarhea said:

Professor Tom Lehrer? :mrgreen:

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This thread NEEDS this :mrgreen:

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

iamitter said:

It's going to be reviewed within the next 3 days by 100+ scientists.
Let's see what they say.

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Who are these scientists? Who has appointed them? Who do they work for?

Just attaching 100+ scientists to something does not mean that effective analysis is happening per se.

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

Walter said:

Then how can such even be suggested as being a FACT? If something new is introduced and the (wink, wink) "hypthesis" is changed...then the first SPECULATION was a LIE..no?

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It's a fact that there are fossilized bacteria in the meteorite. The hypothesis is that it was present in the meteorite before it landed on the Earth and that the bacteria fossils were formed in it originated on another planet. Disproving a hypothesis doesn't make it a lie, it makes it a mistake. For more information see a dictionary about the word "hypothesis."

Kernel Sanders said:

It makes an extraordinary claim with very thin, subjective evidence, was published in a junk, non-peer reviewed journal, and NASA's astrobiology director has come out against the guy's claims

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In science, there is a difference between criticism and proving a hypothesis false. Hoover's hypothesis has yet to be disproved and we have the ability to test it. Results will be in pending peer review. Until it's disproved I have an open (although skeptical) mind.

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

joe six-pack said:

It's a fact that there are fossilized bacteria in the meteorite. The hypothesis is that it was present in the meteorite before it landed on the Earth and that the bacteria fossils were formed in it originated on another planet. Disproving a hypothesis doesn't make it a lie, it makes it a mistake. For more information see a dictionary about the word "hypothesis."

In science, there is a difference between criticism and proving a hypothesis false. Hoover's hypothesis has yet to be disproved and we have the ability to test it. Results will be in pending peer review. Until it's disproved I have an open (although skeptical) mind.

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Now how the hell can you make the CONCLUSION that what was found is FOSSILIZED BACTERIA....void of having any available evidence to prove as much? What example of FOSSILIZED BACTERIA that has been proven to be fossilized life are you comparing that lump of rock to? What? Are you presenting One Hypothesis to Prove another as a FACT? Really? Geeze...some Scientist. I know...I know....IT APPEARS TO BE...yada, yada..yada........now that's real OBJECTIVE SCIENCE..no? Any way that you wish to draw up the formula. -0- + -0- still = -0-

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

Walter said:

Now how the hell can you make the CONCLUSION that what was found is FOSSILIZED BACTERIA

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It's called scientific method. There are people who only study fossils. Carbon dating.

Walter said:

What example of FOSSILIZED BACTERIA that has been proven to be fossilized life are you comparing that lump of rock to?

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We have fossilized bacteria from pre-historic times. It's called science, look it up.

Fossil Record of the Bacteria

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

BREAKING NEWS - A new article in the journal of cosmology claims that evidence of alien life has been found in a refrigerator, located in a home at the corner of Main and Second, in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. After putting a red substance obtained from the bottom shelf of the refrigerator through an electron microscope, NASA scientist Richard Hoover found filaments of what he claims to be alien blood.

Richard Hoover said:

If the measurements hold up, this could be end of the hegemony of man as the dominant force in the Universe, and the beginning of a new era, in which life that exists elsewhere may prove to be more than a match for the human race. I am giving copies of my paper out to 5,000 military personnel, in the hope that they will drop bombs on the house containing this demonic substance, and save mankind for the sake of...... um.... mankind.

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Other scientists are skeptical of this claim, and say that they will wait for more evidence. In the mean time, Channel 5 News sent a reporter out to the home and interviewed the Graham family, who rents the home in this quiet Tuscaloosa neighborhood. Larry and Tanya Graham were quite surprised at the visit, and claimed not to know what the brouhaha was all about. And little 7 year old Linda Graham, their daughter, would not comment, except to read the following prepared statement:

"I was making a PB&J sandwich this morning and dropped the strawberry jam. I'm sorry".

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

danarhea said:

BREAKING NEWS - ("hilarious" story)

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The criticism of Hoover is that the bacteria evidence he found in the meteor might not have been there originally, due to contamination. This can be either proven or disproven. If there are fossils in the sample, carbon dating should tell us how old they are. Further study could debunk or validate the hypothesis. A scientist (or anyone with intelligence) should be skeptical but keep an open mind.

If you have proof it's a fraudulent claim, post it. But don't act like an indignant child, please. I'm only interested in the facts, not the controversy. If it's proven to be a false claim, I'll be disappointed, but it's expected. If not, that's another story. In the meantime, let's not become dumb beasts without reason or curiosity.

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

iamitter said:

It's going to be reviewed within the next 3 days by 100+ scientists.
Let's see what they say.

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Homework assignment: whoever finds an article on the results of that, post it for everyone. Results should be intresting.

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

joe six-pack said:

The criticism of Hoover is that the bacteria evidence he found in the meteor might not have been there originally, due to contamination. This can be either proven or disproven. If there are fossils in the sample, carbon dating should tell us how old they are. Further study could debunk or validate the hypothesis. A scientist (or anyone with intelligence) should be skeptical but keep an open mind.

If you have proof it's a fraudulent claim, post it. But don't act like an indignant child, please. I'm only interested in the facts, not the controversy. If it's proven to be a false claim, I'll be disappointed, but it's expected. If not, that's another story. In the meantime, let's not become dumb beasts without reason or curiosity.

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Scientifically speaking, it is not up to me, or anybody else, to prove that something is false. It is up to him to prove that it is true. That is the way it works.

Case in point: "I am holding a baseball in my hand right now. Prove me wrong." You can't, but according to the scientific method, you don't have to. I must prove to you that I AM holding a baseball in my hand by showing it to you.

So far, Hoover has not proven his case at all. He submitted this paper 4 years ago to the Journal of Astrobiology, which did not complete the peer review process on it, and did not print it. 4 years later (NOW), he submits it to the Journal of Cosmology, which is a discredited publication, with no peer-review process, and which has printed articles before that were later debunked. Even Hoover's own boss at NASA has stated that he does not support Hoover's findings. If this was the big story it is supposed to be, don't you think that scientists from all over the world would have been jumping all over it 4 years ago? Again, it's up to Hoover to prove his case, and so far, he hasn't.

If you are a reasonable person and a critical thinker, then you tell me, after knowing all this, whether the article is credible or not.

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

It should be noted that a number of null hypotheses need to be rejected i.e., "the remains are not fossilized microorganisms," and if that can be done, "the remains did not originate off the earth," etc. That is a very rigorous process.

Finally, while I won't label Hoover's hypothesis (and that's what it is) "false" or "fraudulent," I would state that it currently lacks evidence to support it. I would also add that given the challenges involved in rejecteing the null hypotheses (especially the latter one given the enormous risk of earthly contamination e.g., via microfractures), my guess is that his hypthesis is very likely incorrect.

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

danarhea said:

Scientifically speaking, it is not up to me, or anybody else, to prove that something is false. It is up to him to prove that it is true. That is the way it works.

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The way science works is forming a hypothesis and either proving or disproving that hypothesis. A NASA scientists has provided a hypothesis based on evidence he claims to exist, if it does and if it can be tested to be what he says it is, then it can be proven true. If that isn't the case, it can be disproven.

How do you not understand that? There is a peer review that is going take place soon over this controversy.

danarhea said:

If you are a reasonable person and a critical thinker, then you tell me, after knowing all this, whether the article is credible or not.

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When an impartial third-party reviews the research and says it's not true, then I'll make up my mind. It would appear that the journal is not credible, but I have no intention of taking your word for it. I believe in tangible evidence and verifiable proof, plenty of great discoveries have been made by mistake or by amateurs.

What I wont do is make up my mind about something that hasn't actually been debunked.

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

joe six-pack said:

The way science works is forming a hypothesis and either proving or disproving that hypothesis. A NASA scientists has provided a hypothesis based on evidence he claims to exist, if it does and if it can be tested to be what he says it is, then it can be proven true. If that isn't the case, it can be disproven.

How do you not understand that? There is a peer review that is going take place soon over this controversy.

When an impartial third-party reviews the research and says it's not true, then I'll make up my mind. It would appear that the journal is not credible, but I have no intention of taking your word for it. I believe in tangible evidence and verifiable proof, plenty of great discoveries have been made by mistake or by amateurs.

What I wont do is make up my mind about something that hasn't actually been debunked.

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No, That's not how it works at all - The scientific method puts the onus on the one making the claim to prove it. It doesn't put the onus on someone to attempt to prove a negative. The burden of proof is on whoever makes the claim. Period. But you are welcome to try and prove a negative, if you really want to:

OK, right now, I AM holding a baseball. Prove that I'm not.

While you are attempting to figure this one out, I think I will grab a beer and some popcorn, and entertain myself by watching you turn into a pretzel. LOL.

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

Old news. We discovered alien life in the 80s.

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

The Giant Noodle said:

This thing asked me out last Friday for a drink :shock:

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LOL, kinda looks like a giant noodle.

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

danarhea said:

No, That's not how it works at all - The scientific method puts the onus on the one making the claim to prove it. It doesn't put the onus on someone to attempt to prove a negative. The burden of proof is on whoever makes the claim. Period. But you are welcome to try and prove a negative, if you really want to:

OK, right now, I AM holding a baseball. Prove that I'm not.

While you are attempting to figure this one out, I think I will grab a beer and some popcorn, and entertain myself by watching you turn into a pretzel. LOL.

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All that one would have to do to prove if you are holding a baseball bat or not is to go see you.

The thing about the guy in the OP is that he says he has physical proof. A fossilized bacteria taken from inside a meteor rock. He presents his evidence and people inspect it to see if it is true or not. Basically what I am saying is that no one can prove anything true or false unless another person is willing to look at the available proof. In the case of the OP's guy or you Dan is since there is physical proof someone must go look at it. IE if someone claims to have physical proof then the onus of proving that someone false/correct falls to the community.

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

Ok i'm writing this post because I think that I didn't quite state exactly what I meant in my previous post.

For all scientific hypothesis's there comes a time when it must be peer reviewed in order to give any credence to what is being put forth. This is in essence the time when others must prove or disprove that hypothesis. If it never gets peer reviewed then it never gets proved or disproved. Its in a state of limbo..neither right, nor wrong.

The guy in the OP has reached that point. He has submitted his work in its entirety for peer review. It is now up to the community to approve or disprove what he has put forth.

Re: NASA proves that Alein Life Exists

danarhea said:

No, That's not how it works at all - The scientific method puts the onus on the one making the claim to prove it.

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There is a difference between Scientific Method and a peer review.

This is Scientific Method: please refer to this definition.

* Ask a Question
* Do Background Research
* Construct a Hypothesis
* Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
* Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
* Communicate Your Results

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In short it is the process of forming a hypothesis and either proving or disproving that hypothesis. This is what the researcher does. A peer review follows similar steps, attempting to prove or disprove the results. Obviously if it can't be proven, by default the researchers claim is therefore disproven.

danarhea said:

It doesn't put the onus on someone to attempt to prove a negative.

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Duh? I think we are talking about apples and oranges.

Hoover claims to have gone through the process above. He claims to have proof that I haven't seen or examined yet. Until I see the research and review the evidence myself, it is neither "true" nor "untrue." It is theoretically possible that Hoover's claim is true, even though he did not originally complete the peer review process.

Naturally, I have to assume the research is going to be proven false. But I don't know that for factual truth. I heard the peer review process is going to be completed on these findings, to clear up the controversy, which is what I was referring to by disproving the hypothesis.

It's like schrodinger's cat, until I look in the box--it's neither true nor untrue.