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Wis. governor to Dems: Return or 1,500 workers will be axed

Wake said:
Quite frankly should this retreat by those politicians be tolerated? I don't.

Before posting your response, consider this:

Would you allow republicans to flee the senate whenever they disagree with a democratic vote?
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They'd have to leave the country and not just the state.
 
haymarket said:
According to the Tax Foundation, the top three states with the most favorable business climate and taxes are
1- South Dakota
2- Wyoming
3- Alaska
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The unemployment rates in all three of those states are lower then the national average. There are more reasons for that then just the business enviroment, but that contributed.
1- South Dakota
4.6%
2- Wyoming
6.4%
3- Alaska
8.1%

National Average:
9.5%,
 
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haymarket said:
Not at all. I am attempting to deal with the reality of the situation.
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Riiight...if that were true then why not address the main point of my post instead of completely ignoring it?

Walker campaigned on reducing debt. Getting rid of collective bargaining will reduce debt in the long run. True or false?

Also if WI voters had wanted an step by step outline of how Walker was going to accomplish his promises then perhaps they should have demanded that he provide one before electing him into office. By not doing so they left it up to him. As such its thier fault for not getting all the information about the candidate that they elected.
 
Barbbtx said:
They'd have to leave the country and not just the state.
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AFAIK leaving DC before the Obamacare vote wouldn't have done any good anyways as there is no minimum requirement of attendence in order to pass a bill/law.
 
Also if WI voters had wanted an step by step outline of how Walker was going to accomplish his promises then perhaps they should have demanded that he provide one before electing him into office.
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I am sure that many did do just that.

Why do you put your trust in big government giving itself more power?
 
Kal'Stang said:
Riiight...if that were true then why not address the main point of my post instead of completely ignoring it?

Walker campaigned on reducing debt. Getting rid of collective bargaining will reduce debt in the long run. True or false?

Also if WI voters had wanted an step by step outline of how Walker was going to accomplish his promises then perhaps they should have demanded that he provide one before electing him into office. By not doing so they left it up to him. As such its thier fault for not getting all the information about the candidate that they elected.
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I did not realize your post had a main point.

If Walker got hold of and then dropped an atomic bomb on Wisconsin and the state was wiped out so would the debt. But he did not campaign on that tactic either.
 
And you STILL ignore the main point that was in contention of your demand for proof of Walkers exact steps.

haymarket said:
I am sure that many did do just that.
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Apparently not. Otherwise you wouldn't be demanding it NOW.

haymarket said:
Why do you put your trust in big government giving itself more power?
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Show me where I ever said such a thing.
 
haymarket said:
I did not realize your post had a main point.
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Try reading it again.

haymarket said:
If Walker got hold of and then dropped an atomic bomb on Wisconsin and the state was wiped out so would the debt. But he did not campaign on that tactic either.
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:roll:

Edit note: Btw...splitting one post into two of yours? Seriously?
 
Kal'Stang said:
Riiight...if that were true then why not address the main point of my post instead of completely ignoring it?

Walker campaigned on reducing debt. Getting rid of collective bargaining will reduce debt in the long run. True or false?

Also if WI voters had wanted an step by step outline of how Walker was going to accomplish his promises then perhaps they should have demanded that he provide one before electing him into office. By not doing so they left it up to him. As such its thier fault for not getting all the information about the candidate that they elected.
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They also would have had a pretty good idea from his past record. In fact his record is probably why many voted for him in the first place. His actions shouldn't be surprising to anyone.

The Untold Story of Scott Walker's Longstanding History with Labor.
 
In your failing effort to be clever , you seem to miss a great deal.

On walker not revealing his plan to the voters... I said this in response to you who said voters should have asked during the campaign


I am sure that many did do just that.
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you responded with
Apparently not. Otherwise you wouldn't be demanding it NOW.
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You fail to get the point. Walker indeed may have been asked for exact detail but he played coy and calculating and determined such a revelation could well cost him more than it gained him. the True Believers were with him regardless and if he could fool some union households into voting for him and he did. Now, polls indicate that enough union households have turned against him precisely because of the details that he would not release during the campaign.

I have little doubt that the far right True Believers hoped in their darkest recesses of what passes for their hearts that Walker would do just what he is doing - and even go much further. We hear from them now. Sadly, that was not enough for him to win in November and he had to hide the nefarious details of his true plan to basically destroy the unions and their rights.
 
And how many of WI households are public sector union households that once voted for Walker that are now pulling their support? I am sure he'll be just fine. This mess is of demo making and the people see that.


j-mac
 
buck said:
They have a 137 deficit in the current fiscal period that has to be taken care of. The tax cuts are not and have not added a penny to that cost.
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So if you were $137 M in debt, would you cut your income over the next several years by $100 M?


The "100 million over the next several years" that you quoted pales in comparison to the costs of public sector employees' benefits and salary in WI for just one year.
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So your plan is eliminate teacher's pay and benefits?

They have to close the 3-4 billion dollar deficit projected for the next fiscal period. Taking back the "100 million over the next several years" will not even make a dent.
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Its going to make a big dent in Education for the state of Wisconsin.

The cuts have to come from the areas of biggest spending. Guess where that happens to be?
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From the most important state role, educating our children. Which is exactly what I said before that some claim the priority should be tax breaks for corporations instead, and you seem to agree with that change in priorities.
 
buck said:
Not sure. Neither do you. However, it is smart. Especially with my states recent (and dumb) tax hikes. I expect quite a few businesses to leave IL and move to WI.
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So whoever is willing to have the stupidist children wins?
 
haymarket said:
What a line of BS. All these governors are making all these cuts to make their states friendly to business. What are they going to all do - steal from each other? In Michigan Snyder is cutting business taxes by $1.8 billion dollars and increasing taxes by over $1. billion dollars on average people. Guess what Snyder did for a living before he became Governor in January? He was a businessman. Guess who the backbone of his political support is? Businessmen. Guess what occupation Snyder will go back to after he quits being governor. Businessman. And he gets to play on a whole new playing field that he was responsible to titling heavilly in his own direction and to his own advantage. Its disgusting.
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hmmm.... so the political backbone of Republicans are the people who create jobs in this country, keep the economy moving, and put themselves at risk.... whereas the political backbone of Democrats are parasitic public unions fanatically dedicated to keeping themselves from suffering along with the rest of the country.

okay. i'll take that.
 
haymarket said:
In your failing effort to be clever , you seem to miss a great deal.

On walker not revealing his plan to the voters... I said this in response to you who said voters should have asked during the campaign
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Obama famously ran for president castigating Bush for his deficit spending. Gave a speech on the Senate floor refusing to increase the debt ceiling.

Then, of course, he ramped deficit spending up even more.

Would you say he's a liar? :)
 
"Collective bargaining in the years since has played a major role in America’s economic miracle. Unions represent some of the freest institutions in this land. There are few finer examples of participatory democracy to be found anywhere. Too often, discussion about the labor movement concentrates on disputes, corruption, and strikes. But while these things are headlines, there are thousands of good agreements reached and put into practice every year without a hitch." - Ronald Reagan.
 
Catawba said:
So if you were $137 M in debt, would you cut your income over the next several years by $100 M?
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Sure, if I were 3.8 billion in debt, I would be more then willing to invest 100mil over the "next several years" in the hopes of improving my financial situation.

So your plan is eliminate teacher's pay and benefits?
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Reduce? Sure.

Its going to make a big dent in Education for the state of Wisconsin.
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100 million in tax cuts "over the next several years" to entice businesses to move to WI and hire will not make a "big dent" in education. It will barely even make a small dent.
 
haymarket said:
So if every state cuts taxes on business to the bare bone and shifts the burden to working people,
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You mean besides the fact that all taxes on all businesses are paid by the consumers of those businesses products, and the business is effectively nothing more than a collection agency for those taxes?

Given that it's mostly "working class" people buying the stuff, then it's mostly the working classes paying the taxes.

Since it's the working classes that vote for the politicians writing the tax laws, shouldn't the working classes be taxed directly, so they can feel exactly how deeply their favorite politicians are digging into their pockets?

Reducing taxes on businesses means those businesses can be more competitive with businesses being taxed up the wazoo in other states, and Wisconsins diseased neighbor Illinois comes to mind, and can, therefore hire more workers who live in Wisconsin.

Raising taxes on business scares businesses away. Hiring slows and stops. How is this good for anyone?

According to the Tax Foundation, the top three states with the most favorable business climate and taxes are
1- South Dakota
2- Wyoming
3- Alaska

So where is the rush into all three of these states? New York is #49. I was there this summer and the city was booming big time a whole lot more than Minot, Casper and Juneau.
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Mayor Snorkum is guessing that there's more to running a business and siting a business that a simplistic tax rate check.

There's access to markets, availability of a skilled workforce and availability of suppliers and various community influences.

An aerospace company decided they were going to pack up shop from Los Angeles and move to Houston. They tried to go. They're employees found other jobs at other companies in the LA area and the runaway company snapped back to LA like a paddle ball coming back to the racket.
 
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haymarket said:
In your failing effort to be clever , you seem to miss a great deal.

On walker not revealing his plan to the voters... I said this in response to you who said voters should have asked during the campaign]
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Walker is a Republican. The GOP has been traditionally at odds with the unions that force exorbitant wages and benefits from the public sector and who then use the forced collection of dues (aka "collective bargaining") to give huge campaign contributions to Democrat politicians eager to provide even larger wage packages to the unions.

One would generally expect a Republican or other American politician to take a leading role in divorcing the unions from their closed shop practices that corrupt the political process while bankrupting the states.

I have little doubt that the far right True Believers hoped in their darkest recesses of what passes for their hearts that Walker would do just what he is doing - and even go much further. We hear from them now. Sadly, that was not enough for him to win in November and he had to hide the nefarious details of his true plan to basically destroy the unions and their rights.
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Yep. Nothing like enforcing freedom of choice on people and the unions who wish to represent them. Just think, for all that Walker is doing, the one thing he won't change is that anyone who wants to be in a union will still have the choice to pay their dues and be members.

Perhaps the union bosses need to work harder at getting workers to want them?
 
TheBook said:
"Collective bargaining in the years since has played a major role in America’s economic miracle. Unions represent some of the freest institutions in this land. There are few finer examples of participatory democracy to be found anywhere. Too often, discussion about the labor movement concentrates on disputes, corruption, and strikes. But while these things are headlines, there are thousands of good agreements reached and put into practice every year without a hitch." - Ronald Reagan.
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And yet even Reagan recognized that unions sometimes need a heavy hand directed at them.

On August 3, 1981 the union declared a strike, seeking better working conditions, better pay and a 32-hour workweek. In doing so, the union violated a law {5 U.S.C. (Supp. III 1956) 118p.} that banned strikes by government unions. Ronald Reagan declared the PATCO strike a "peril to national safety" and ordered them back to work under the terms of the Taft-Hartley Act of 1947. Only 1,300 of the nearly 13,000 controllers returned to work.[4] Subsequently, Reagan demanded those remaining on strike return to work within 48 hours, otherwise their jobs would be forfeited. At the same time Transportation Secretary Drew Lewis organized for replacements and started contingency plans. By prioritizing and cutting flights severely, and even adopting methods of air traffic management PATCO had previously lobbied for, the government was initially able to have 50% of flights available.[4]

On August 5, following the PATCO workers' refusal to return to work, Reagan fired the 11,345 striking air traffic controllers who had ignored the order,[6][7] and banned them from federal service for life. (This ban was later rescinded by President Bill Clinton in 1993.)[8] In the wake of the strike and mass firings the FAA was faced with the task of hiring and training enough controllers to replace those that had been fired, a hard problem to fix as at the time it took three years in normal conditions to train a new controller.[2] They were replaced initially with nonparticipating controllers, supervisors, staff personnel, some nonrated personnel, and in some cases by controllers transferred temporarily from other facilities. Some military controllers were also used until replacements could be trained. The FAA had initially claimed that staffing levels would be restored within two years; however, it would take closer to ten years before the overall staffing levels returned to normal.[2] PATCO was decertified on October 22, 1981.[9]

Some former striking controllers were allowed to reapply after 1986 and were rehired; they and their replacements are now represented by the National Air Traffic Controllers Association, which was organized in 1987 and had no connection with PATCO.
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Wikipedia: PATCO

Now considering that these teachers are ditching school to protest despite there being a law against them ditching school to do so I would say that Walker would be well within his rights to fire every single one of them.

Oh the "they have a doctors note" excuse? If they're too sick to teach then they should be too sick to protest outside in the middle of winter.
 
Mayor Snorkum said:
Walker is a Republican. The GOP has been traditionally at odds with the unions that force exorbitant wages and benefits from the public sector and who then use the forced collection of dues (aka "collective bargaining") to give huge campaign contributions to Democrat politicians eager to provide even larger wage packages to the unions.
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This is so much crap. I live in a Republican managed city within a Republican controlled county and in a district with Republican state and federal representatives. Been that way for decades. Our unionized teachers are among the highest paid in the state. None of these Republican politicians has ever moved a solitary muscle to change the status quo.

More than anything, virtually all such contract problems nationwide stem from both Republican and Democrat politicians who have consistently approved union contracts in exchange for local/state/national union endorsements on election day. Now that their budget tits are in the financial wringer, all the politicos mum up on their huge part in this game. Republicans are just as malfeasant in this as the Democrats and vice versa.

They play the game a bit differently with Big Business. Here they finagle zoning laws and award no-bid contracts in return for corporate campaign contributions.
 
Tashah said:
This is so much crap. I live in a Republican managed city within a Republican controlled county and in a district with Republican state and federal representatives. Been that way for decades. Our unionized teachers are among the highest paid in the state. None of these Republican politicians has ever moved a solitary muscle to change the status quo.

More than anything, virtually all such contract problems nationwide stem from both Republican and Democrat politicians who have consistently approved union contracts in exchange for local/state/national union endorsements on election day. Now that their budget tits are in the financial wringer, all the politicos mum up on their huge part in this game. Republicans are just as malfeasant in this as the Democrats and vice versa.

They play the game a bit differently with Big Business. Here they finagle zoning laws and award no-bid contracts in return for corporate campaign contributions.
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i thought you were israeli.....



....... Ziva? is that you?
 
Kal'Stang said:
Now considering that these teachers are ditching school to protest despite there being a law against them ditching school to do so I would say that Walker would be well within his rights to fire every single one of them.
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I would think the ones caught on camera certainly should be suspended.
 
cpwill said:
i thought you were israeli.....
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There you go thinking again ;)

I am American/Israeli... a citizen of both countries. Respective home pics are in my DP Photo Album.
 
yes, but you did not answer the important question, which is whether or not you are a member of Jethro Gibb's NCIS team, in which case, you can give me Abby's phone number :D
 
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