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Wis. governor to Dems: Return or 1,500 workers will be axed

MaggieD said:
First of all, there's no magic here. The layoff notices reflect a day 30 days in the future. So all can be fixed.

But honestly? I think we're going to see some kind of compromise. There has to be...
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Why does there have to be? The governor expects the legislature to be present to do their job. He can't do his job if all the Democrats are playing hookey because they want to disrupt the democratic process. They lost the damn election, time for them to face reality.

The governor should follow through on his lay-off promise and cut those people loose regardless of when or if the Democrats finally return. If the Democrats do not return when those pink slips are issued, the governor should announce more lay offs. After all, if the legislature can't pass a budget, it's not legal for the state to spend money.

Also, since there's no moral reason why the state should be party to union shops, euphemistically called "collective bargaining", there's no reason for the government to compromise on that issue. After all, there's only two ways to go, union shop or right to work, and there's no middle ground at all. Since it's moral to allow workers their freedom of choice to be in a union or not, then there's again no reason for Walker to seek an impossible compromise with people who have shown their disdain for the democratic process.
 
toomuchtime_ said:
Maybe not. Walker may allow the Dem senators some sort of face saving gesture, but I doubt he will back down on the bill. When this guy was Milwaukee County executive, he gave back half of his salary every year for his first term and a smaller amount during his second term in order to gain the moral authority for deep cuts in the County budget. Right or wrong, I think he is fully committed to his program.
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No.

Walker should demand his legislator behave like grown ups, and that means they should crawl back to town and take whatever happens to them.

Anyone remember the story of the little duck that ran away?

Well, once there was a little duck who lived with other ducks on a boat, and every day the boat would tie up to shore and all the ducks would be allowed on the beach to play. In the evening, all the ducks would line up and waddle back onto the boat. The last duck in line would get a whack on the ass with a cane to give them all incentive to hurry up. Well, the little duck was going to be last and he didn't want to be whacked, so he went AWOL. Another duck got the whack. The little duck spent the night on the beach, frightened and jumpy, quivering at every strange sound, and all the sound were strange. The next day, the boat didn't show up, it went else where. The little duck had a miserable week fending for himself, and one day there it was! The boat. It was loading up the ducks. The little duck ran and ran, and he barel got in the line in time. He was whacked with the stick and that was that.

The AWOL Democrats are in some serious need of a finding the boat and getting themselves whacked in the ass with the stick.

The story never did say what the duck who got whacked that one night said to the little duck, though.
 
Krhazy said:
That could easily be flipped to read: isn't it telling that Republicans would rather give people pink slips than compromise on collective bargaining rights?
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No, it couldn't be flipped that way.

There's no such thing as a collective right and thus no such thing as collective bargaining rights.

The individual does have the to choose to not be in a union, though. That's covered by the Freedom of association clause of the First Amendment.
 
SheWolf said:
He is falling in the polls and the polls say the people favor collective rights, so he really isn't listening to the people who elected him and he didn't run on removing collective bargaining rights. For that reason, I think he sort of just abusing his power now and doing what he thinks is best and right, not really what the people want. This will probably be his only term...
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Well, that's the difference between a weather vane and a leader.

As a leader, Walker is doing the job he was elected to and the job he promised to do. Also, this is why American elections are for fixed terms, so the elected officials can focus on the job at hand.

The unions hate Reagan unto perpetuity for his leadership in ending the PATCO nonsense. And Reagan won every single state in the union in 1984 except for that weird Minnesota place, which happened to be the embarassed home state of Mondale.

Since Walker's re-election bid is four years down the road, transient polls in a hyped up fake crisis should not drive his policy setting agenda. Collective bargaining is bad for every state and Wisconsin will be better off when they're rid of it.
 
DiAnna said:
Bottom line, if the money isn't there then it isn't there. If there is no agreement to reduce salaries and benefits to bridge the gap, then the only thing left is lay offs... when, due to union contract clauses, layoffs will be forcefully determined only by seniority and not by merit.

People can whine and stamp their feet all they want, but you cannot print money to pay your own personal bills and states cannot print money to pay theirs.
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California seems to manage somehow....for now.
 
Mayor Snorkum said:
Collective bargaining is bad for every state and Wisconsin will be better off when they're rid of it.
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A balanced state budget should be mandated by law. Unfortunately, politicians are loathe to self-constrain their powers of expenditure.
 
I think the jobs are being held hostage now, the missing democrats have every right to walk out IMO, especially because the bill being passed seems to go against what the majority of Wisconsin voters are asking for. Maybe the issue is worth riding out the threat of 1,500 jobs lost, even if the layoffs are imminent and there are still contracts in place then some rules might need to be followed.

Those contracts with the union employees should have plenty of layoff provisions, one example is there may be overtime rules that require work week(hour)reductions before any employee with 20+years seniority could be laid off. A well written contract should protect senior workers the most and surely the higher ups would rather break any contract with the workers and then layoff the higher paid old timers (rabble-rousers)and keep the younger workers at the lower wage rate. Another example of a contract requirement may be that any department laying off employees would be forced to reduce or eliminate any outside(non union)contractors that have been temporarily hired to work for that particular department.

If layoffs do need to take place they should be done according to the rules both sides agreed to. As for union workers being lazy protected workers I would argue that management is at fault as much if not more than the unions for their inability to manage their employees at the workplace.

Walker issues raises in(2008):
Walker issues hefty raises to top Milwaukee County aides - JSOnline

The below portion of this bill does not seem reasonable:

− 24 −
Jan. 2011 Spec. Sess.
2011 − 2012 Legislature LRB−1383/2
CMH/RAC/TJD:all:all
SECTION 44 BILL
16.896 Sale or contractual operation of state−owned heating, cooling,and power plants. (1) Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the department may sell any state−owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may
contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best interest of the state. Notwithstanding ss. 196.49 and 196.80, no approval or certification of the public service commission is necessary for a public utility to purchase, or contract for the operation of, such a plant, and any such purchase is
considered to be in the public interest and to comply with the criteria for certification of a project under s. 196.49 (3) (b).​
 
from Mayor Snorkum

Walker is doing the job he was elected to and the job he promised to do.
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False. In many threads on this subject, Walker apologists have alleged this. When challenged to go back and produce campaign statements or campaign literature from Wlaker in which he promisedto take the radical steps he is now taking, nobody has been able to come up with them.
 
haymarket said:
from Mayor Snorkum



False. In many threads on this subject, Walker apologists have alleged this. When challenged to go back and produce campaign statements or campaign literature from Wlaker in which he promisedto take the radical steps he is now taking, nobody has been able to come up with them.
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Didn't he promise to do something about the debt? If so then this falls under that promise. Just because you think that its radical does not negate that fact.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Didn't he promise to do something about the debt? If so then this falls under that promise. Just because you think that its radical does not negate that fact.
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Yeppers. Here's his Scott Walker for Governor website. He promised to do something about the debt big time. And for teachers, he promised this:

The Qualified Economic Offer (QEO), which helped hold down local school costs for more than 15 years, will be restored and tied to revenue caps to align each district’s expenses with their revenues. Mediation and arbitration changes will also be needed to ensure that local economic factors are considered along with other common sense factors when arbitrating teacher contracts
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Here's the Qualified Economic Offer legislation:

QUALIFIED ECONOMIC OFFER (QEO)
The budget adjustment act (1997 Wisconsin Act 237), passed by the legislature and signed by Governor Tommy Thompson on June 2, 1998, alters the basis for calculating the qualified economic offer (QEO) factor used statewide in negotiating local school district contracts. The new law mandates that the salary component of a QEO must be increased to reflect certain savings the district realizes on the fringe benefit component.[/BOLD] The change applies to proposed collective bargaining agreements with starting dates of July 1, 1999, or later. Prior to that date, the application of the savings is allowed, but not required.....
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The QEO was repealed under Democratic leadership. Walker clearly called for its reinstatement as shown in my first quote above.

To get a clear understanding of what QEO changed, take a look at what the WEAC Union had to say about it: Repeal of the Qualified Economic Offer Law | 1997-1998 | At the Capitol News Archives | At the Capitol | News & Publications | Wisconsin Education Association Council

Walker couldn't have made his position any more clear.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Didn't he promise to do something about the debt? If so then this falls under that promise. Just because you think that its radical does not negate that fact.
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Please show where Walker promised to take the steps that he has taken in the last few weeks.
 
MaggieD said:
What? I posted chopped liver?
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Maggie - did your material include campaign promises from Walker that he would take the steps he has to deny unions their legal rights to collective bargaining?

NO HE DID NOT.
 
Tashah said:
The state legislators who voted to ratify destructive contracts should also get a pink slip.
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agreed as well. unfortunately it's not possible; only the people can fire them.
 
haymarket said:
Maggie - did your material include campaign promises from Walker that he would take the steps he has to deny unions their legal rights to collective bargaining?
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that is, in fact, precisely what the union campaign material distributed about him prior to the election highlighted him doing.

:) although in this case i would be willing to accept your agreement that unions often pursue political agenda's that are built upon false premises.
 
Mayor Snorkum said:
There's no such thing as a collective right and thus no such thing as collective bargaining rights.
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Um, the Wisconsin statutes say otherwise:

"Employees shall have the right . . . to bargain collectively." Wisc. Stat. 111.82 http://legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/Stat0111.pdf

Obviously the government has the power to take that right away (unless it is also a constitutional right), but it does exist.
 
pbrauer said:
Gov. Walker has definitely jumped the shark, according to Rasmussen his disapproval rating has gone to 57%
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Obama has suffered far, far worse.
 
DiAnna said:
Bottom line, if the money isn't there then it isn't there. If there is no agreement to reduce salaries and benefits to bridge the gap, then the only thing left is lay offs... when, due to union contract clauses, layoffs will be forcefully determined only by seniority and not by merit.

People can whine and stamp their feet all they want, but you cannot print money to pay your own personal bills and states cannot print money to pay theirs.
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Its just a matter of priority it appears to me. Tax breaks have replaced education as a priority.

Pro-business proposals pop up at Wis. Capitol
March 5, 2011

MADISON — "Demonstrations over Gov. Scott Walker’s budget proposal and intent to repeal most public employee collective bargaining rights captured most of the public’s attention at the State Capitol this past week, but substantive business legislation moved forward.
Here are some of the measures lawmakers considered:

SB4/AB2-These identical proposals would increase the number of enterprise zones that the Department of Commerce can designate from 12 to 16.
Enterprise zones are meant to promote job retention in an area and certain state income and franchise tax breaks are given to employers who create or help retain jobs in one of these zones.

The legislation requires that from the four new zones, the DOC designate at least two zones in municipalities with populations less than 5,000 and at least two zones in cities with populations between 5,000 and 30,000.

Senator Pam Galloway, R-Wausau, was the sponsor of the Senate version of the bill and said she is hopeful that the provisions relating to rural areas will spark interest from businesses in her district.

“There is a company looking to set up a plant to manufacture solar panels, (the local) chamber of commerce has been working with them in Wausau but they’re still just in the talking phase,” said Galloway.

The bill is on third reading in the Senate.

AB 38/SB 21- Both legislative measures would allow the city of Brookfield in Waukesha County to create a tax incremental financing district, or TIF district, for a retail project.
TIF districts give tax breaks to retailers or businesses relocating or developing on a particular parcel of land.
The retail center in question is the upscale department store Von Maur. By creating this TIF district it will help the town fund public improvements related to the development of the store.

According to a letter from the CFO of Von Maur to Brookfield’s town administrator Rick Czopp, the anticipated cost of construction will be $25 million to $30 million and will employ approximately 110 full time workers.

The Senate has already passed the legislation and an Assembly committee is expected to take up the proposal March 10.

SB12-This measure would allow retailers to offer discounts equal to the state and local sales tax.
Under current law, if a local retailer offers a sales tax-free event it is considered a misdemeanor but this bill would eliminate this prohibition. Scott Kelly, the chief of staff for the sponsor, state Sen. Van Wanggaard, R-Racine, said this provision wasted state resources.

“This is a victimless crime,” Kelly said. “It’s not enforced judicially right now but resources are used sending out threatening letters asking these businesses to cease and desist.”
It was voted out of committee Tuesday with no opposition to the bill. Kelly said he is not sure when it’ll be called for a vote on the floor.
Senator Lassa Proposals

Sen. Julie Lassa, D-Stevens Point, is one of the missing 14 Democrats but that hasn’t stopped her from making new proposals.
Last week she issued news releases that she will introduce bills aimed at creating partnerships between the state and regional economic development entities and increasing funds to WisCap (Wisconsin Small Company Advancement Program) and the Advanced Manufacturing Training Grants program.
Another proposal addresses a discrepancy in the Wisconsin GI Bill for military veterans who end up losing state benefits if they take full use of federal tuition benefits.

On Thursday she proposed another measure that would create the Wisconsin Growth Fund, which would “commit up to $100 million to eight to 10 venture capital funds over five years.”

“Despite the current impasses at the State Capitol, my work representing my constituents continues,” Lassa said through press releases. “These bills will have a positive and immediate effect on helping Wisconsin workers find good new jobs.”
Pro-business proposals pop up at Wis. Capitol*|*Statehousenewsonline.com
 
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Quite frankly should this retreat by those politicians be tolerated? I don't.

Before posting your response, consider this:

Would you allow republicans to flee the senate whenever they disagree with a democratic vote?
 
Catawba said:
Its just a matter of priority it appears to me. Tax breaks have replaced education as a priority.
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The tax breaks to attract business and build the tax base is a very small percentage of WI's budget. The funds necessary to compensate the public sector empoyees are a very large percentage of WI's budget. Even if you got rid of all of the proposed business tax breaks, WI would still be in a multi-billion dollar deficit.
 
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Wake said:
Quite frankly should this retreat by those politicians be tolerated? I don't.

Before posting your response, consider this:

Would you allow republicans to flee the senate whenever they disagree with a democratic vote?
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i can't physically stop them, but i wouldn't support it. even during Obamacare never did i call for Republicans to flee Washington DC.
 
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