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62% against stripping public employees' bargaining rights

I hate how much influence the unions, through the dues of the membership, have with governments from coast to coast. I'm sick and tired of watching legislatures whore themselves one day and then claim to represent the will or the best interests of the people the next day.

What I hate even more, though, is when legislators believe the way out of a fiscal crisis they inflicted on us is to turn around and break the deals they made to get into or stay in office. No. You made your bed, now you lie in it and figure out how to fix things without breaking the contracts.

Legislators that advocate breaking contracts or treaties or any kind should be rendered ineligible for re-election merely for making the suggestion -- if it's so vital to the interests of their constituents, they should be willing to fall on their own swords to make it happen.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
I hate how much influence the unions, through the dues of the membership, have with governments from coast to coast. I'm sick and tired of watching legislatures whore themselves one day and then claim to represent the will or the best interests of the people the next day.

What I hate even more, though, is when legislators believe the way out of a fiscal crisis they inflicted on us is to turn around and break the deals they made to get into or stay in office. No. You made your bed, now you lie in it and figure out how to fix things without breaking the contracts.

Legislators that advocate breaking contracts or treaties or any kind should be rendered ineligible for re-election merely for making the suggestion -- if it's so vital to the interests of their constituents, they should be willing to fall on their own swords to make it happen.
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Look - I work in the state legislature. I handle the meetings with lobbysits for half my work day. Yes, we see unions, but they are a small minority of the appointments we have. I just checked the month of February and only two meetings were with union lobbyists. 16 were with non unions - mostly lobbysists for companies and industries.

Some others were with private citizens and outnumbered both groups.

And I am in Michigan - a pretty hardcore union state.

You seriously overrate union power.
 
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haymarket said:
You seriously overrate union power.
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if they don't have that much power....why do people piss themselves anytime the topic of getting rid of them comes up? ;)
 
In general, the public supports collective bargaining. Indeed, arguments to abolish collective bargaining rights amount to a de facto admission that the state's political leaders are terrible negotiators. It is a de facto concession that they cannot negotiate effectively in the public's interest. Hence, they seek to erect legal barriers to spare them from the negotiating process. Not surprisingly, the public is not buying the argument to abolish collective bargaining.

Nevertheless, just because the unions command support on the principle of collective bargaining does not mean they cannot overreach. Unions will need to make a meaningful contribution toward helping address the states' fiscal challenges and in the long-term fiscal climate likely to be dominated by fiscal consolidation and austerity, their ability to seek increased wages and benefits will be reduced. Intransigence will lead to the public's turning against them. For example, when PATCO decided to go on strike leading to President Reagan's firing the striking air controllers, the public supported the President. A similar dynamic could come into play if the labor unions are not willing to play a constructive role in helping the states address their deep fiscal challenges, especially if the unions try to organize massive strikes that have an adverse impact on the general public.
 
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OscarB63 said:
if they don't have that much power....why do people piss themselves anytime the topic of getting rid of them comes up? ;)
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The honest answer and I am not trying to be insulting.... because of people like the anti-union crowd right here ... folks like you Oscar.
 
OscarB63 said:
better to keep the bargaining rights and have the state go under and lose your job than give up the union and keep it, I guess :shrug:
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Am I right to assume that you believe the only reason that any of these states are in trouble is because of unions and that there is no feasible alternative besides stripping them of their bargaining rights in order to keep the states from going under?
 
Have a recall election of the Governor and all newly elected tea partiers for illegal election campaign practices ...

ACFDF9.jpg
 
CriticalThought said:
Am I right to assume that you believe the only reason that any of these states are in trouble is because of unions and that there is no feasible alternative besides stripping them of their bargaining rights in order to keep the states from going under?
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they bitch and whine about having to pay a portion of their benefits. screw them, I've been doing that for 30 freakin years.
 
OscarB63 said:
they bitch and whine about having to pay a portion of their benefits. screw them, I've been doing that for 30 freakin years.
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You didn't answer my question. I don't really care about your jealousy.
 
haymarket said:
So you are in New York? That is where you live. Beyond that... what is the point?
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My point is, as a resident of New York, I know from experience that the unions have a lot of influence here, between what they spend themselves on vilifying their opposition and donate to the candidates that support them.
 
OscarB63 said:
better to keep the bargaining rights and have the state go under and lose your job than give up the union and keep it, I guess :shrug:
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How is that considering those in WI agreed to reduce their compensation. Why do conservatives on this board keep forgetting that? Take their agreement to lower their own compensation and someone let Walker know that cutting taxes when having a budget shortfall is completely idiotic and all the sudden things aren't so bad.
 
"62% against stripping public employees' bargaining rights"


What about the public employees that can keep their clothes on?
 
OscarB63 said:
if they don't have that much power....why do people piss themselves anytime the topic of getting rid of them comes up? ;)
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Because we like the idea of worker safety, five day work weeks, and all the other useful unions helped to create and would rather not see those good things eroded.
 
Push polls always derive the desired results. Nothing new there.

Network Push polls sold as a news event, is like students grading their own papers.
 
polls this far out---help yourself

we saw ppp, a dem pollster, put out something similar this week

we saw nyt/cbs compile data from a sample that was 20% union households and dem by a plurality of ten

CBS News/New York Times survey oversampled union households | Mark Tapscott | Beltway Confidential | Washington Examiner

which is why we're seeing such a wild discrepancy

rasmussen (founder of espn), rated by fordham university in 2008 america's most accurate pollster, has almost exact opposite numbers

http://www.fordham.edu/images/acade...ccuracy in the 2008 presidential election.pdf

48% Back GOP Governor in Wisconsin Spat, 38% Side With Unions - Rasmussen Reports™

quinnipiac today came out with a small margin AGAINST collective bargaining

National (US) Poll * March 2, 2011 * American Voters Split On Gove - Quinnipiac University – Hamden, Connecticut

did you note in contrast how ALL the pollsters were of ONE VOICE in the months immediately preceding tsunami tuesday

all the cooks, sabatos, rothenbergs, sean trendes

even nate silver---LOL!

polls this far out---knock yourself out

the PROS today are plainly looking elsewhere

cuomo, for instance, his ax is SAVAGE

GOVERNOR ANDREW M. CUOMO STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS | Governor Andrew M. Cuomo

even moonbeam's mumbling, however his CUTS are clear and drastic

it's coast to coast

look at the wisconsin public unions EAGERLY begging to have their bennies cut and their pay-in's dramatically UPPED

look at obama, hands off, distant, silent---still searching, evidently, for those comfy shoes

Obama collective bargaining rights | campaigns walk picket line | The Daily Caller - Breaking News, Opinion, Research, and Entertainment

collective bargaining is just a straw in an overwhelming gust

i'd be surprised you professional posters don't feel it, if i didn't know you so well

our 50 states collectively are facing TWO POINT FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS of public pension shortfall alone

FT.com / US / Economy & Fed - US public pensions face $2,500bn shortfall

this is UNDERNEATH all the other crap, the CURRENT, in-your-face crisis that is medicaid funding, for example

Medicaid funding busts governors' budgets - Feb. 28, 2011

housing is STILL collapsing---property taxes thru the floor

the GOVT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE audit released this week showed A HALF TRILLION DOLLARS of p-f-f-t, just GONE, lost, wasted, duplicated, never evaluated for effectiveness

GAO Finds Massive Waste, Duplication - FoxBusiness.com

just how many of those HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS are allocated in accord with POLITICAL PAYBACK

americans are NOT naive

we know exactly what's going on

unionist clout is about to be drastically curtailed

SLASHED

from CALIFORNIA to neoliberal NEW YORK

congrats, comrades

stay up

or we'll getcha on CIVILITY too!
 
This may be a different poll, but I found it interesting and wonder about the internals of the poll included in the op.

A peek under the hood of the NYT/CBS poll « Hot Air

First, the partisan split in the sample gave a ten-point advantage to Democrats. Their sample for this poll had a D/R/I split of 36/26/31, an absurd sample for political polling. In December, Rasmussen’s general-population survey put Republicans ahead, 36.0% to 34.7% for Democrats. A recent poll by Gallup shows erosion in Democratic affiliation all through 2010. In 2008, Barack Obama won the popular vote by seven points nationwide, and the NYT/CBS poll assumes that the electorate has grown more Democratic in 2011.
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haymarket said:
You seriously overrate union power.
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Clearly unions have little influence.

The American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME), a 1.6 million member public sector union, has taken the lead as the biggest outside campaign spender in the 2010 election cycle, the Wall Street Journal reports.

AFSCME is contributing a combined $87.5 million to support democratic candidates in the upcoming election
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Public-Sector Union AFSCME Now No.1 Spender in 2010 Election Cycle - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
 
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