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Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

The government has opened a sleeping giant.....the ramifications of Walker's refusal to negotiate and to dictatorally push this corporatist agenda is going to be widespread.

I know this more than a few people showed up to voice their opinion at Lansing Community College when they started cutting programs and degrees.

I don't think this will go away in good faith.
 
Wisconsin is also a neighbor to Michigan they are not the kind of people to lay down that includes teachers and friends and family of teachers.

Amen to that brother.
 
People are not going to sit back and allow government to have complete control without the workers having representation. It completely goes against the fundamentals of this country.
 
monopoly status?...that's a good one. What you are really saying is that government should have complete control and the workers should have no representation.
So much for that small government you guys love to claim you love.

yes monoploy status. everyone that wants a certain job is forced to join. it's the worst kind of monopoly, the kind created by government force, not free choice.
 
we are all friends and familly of teachers, but that doesn't make us support the monopoly status of public unions in Wisconsin.

So the government speaks and the workers obey without question????
 
yes monoploy status. everyone that wants a certain job is forced to join. it's the worst kind of monopoly, the kind created by government force, not free choice.

No...what you are really saying is that you want government to have complete control....and that they workers should have no voice. Very anti-american values.
 
anybody living in the midwest would disagree. I'm in northwestern Illinois, but I can see Wisconsin from my backyard. I sense a majority that sides with the governor.

they don't

Tuesday, March 1, 2011
Wisconsin closely divided, but against Walker
There are two conclusions we can make from our poll on the Wisconsin conflict: the state is very closely divided, but it leans slightly to the union side of things rather than Scott Walker's on pretty much every question we asked.

On the biggest picture question: do you side with Governor Walker or do you side with the public employee unions 51% of voters in the state go with the unions to 47% who stand with the Governor. On another broad question: do you side more with Governor Walker or with the Democrats in the state Senate, 52% of voters go with the Senate Democrats to 47% who go for Walker. And perhaps the clearest indication that Walker has lost a majority of the voters in the state in this conflict, if only a narrow majority, is that 52% of voters now disapprove of him to only 46% who like the job he's doing. Those numbers are basically the inverse of last fall's election results.

When it comes to broader questions about rights for public employees in Wisconsin the margins are less narrow. 57% of voters think that workers should have the right to collectively bargain for wages, benefits, and working environment rules compared to only 37% who think they shouldn't have those rights. And 55% of voters think that public employees should have at least the same rights they have now, if not more, compared to only 41% who believe they should have fewer rights.

Key on both of those questions about rights for public employees is that a majority of both union and non-union households stand with the workers on those issues. Union households support collective bargaining by a 70/26 margin, but non-union households do as well by a narrower 51/42 margin. Union households think public employees should have as many or more rights than they do now by a 66/32 spread, but so do non-union households by a 51/45 one.

Ultimately one of the biggest questions moving forward is whether a recall of Scott Walker would be a viable avenue for pro-union supporters. Right now it looks like it would be a 50/50 proposition. 48% of voters say they would support a recall, while 48% are opposed. That issue's about as polarized on party lines as it could possibly be- 87% of Democrats support a recall, 90% of Republicans are opposed, and independents split narrowly in favor of it by a 48/46 spread. With such a closely divided state Walker's fate would very much be determined by who could better turn their troops out- last year Democrats were asleep at the wheel and let Walker get elected but it might be a whole different story if voters in the state got a chance to do it again.
 
yes monoploy status. everyone that wants a certain job is forced to join. it's the worst kind of monopoly, the kind created by government force, not free choice.

Politics are the worst kind of monoploy.

With lies, deciet, broken promices backroom deals , and no bid contracks.
 
So the government speaks and the workers obey without question????

the government is we the people. if you don't want to work for the people, nobody is going to force you. find other work. please.
 
they don't

with all the money your cronies are throwing into the state, you should see a bigger discrepancy.

I'm pretty comfortable with Walkers long term viability.
 
the government is we the people. if you don't want to work for the people, nobody is going to force you. find other work. please.

Nice attempt at spin. So in your world, the government is the people and the workers are the establishment. Like I said....so much for that small government that you so-called "conservatives" love to espouse.
 
Politics are the worst kind of monoploy.

With lies, deciet, broken promices backroom deals , and no bid contracks.

public unions are political. so what's your point?
 
the government is we the people. if you don't want to work for the people, nobody is going to force you. find other work. please.

the employees are agents of the government
it is the representative bodies that form the government
here is a real life - and possibly surprising reality - to demonstrate the difference

the police
they do not work for you
they work for the government
 
the government is we the people. if you don't want to work for the people, nobody is going to force you. find other work. please.

The government is the politicians that are elected by the people if the politician should cross a line of neglagence or lie that politician can be replaced by the people.

AKA Richard Nixon, aka L.B. Johnson ect.

The politician may be in charge for some time but come voting time people will remember the ocomplishments and mistakes they have made.
Too many mistakes the scales will tip and they can look for another zip code and another job
 
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No...what you are really saying is that you want government to have complete control....and that they workers should have no voice. Very anti-american values.

Have a voice in what? Getting paid double the national average, then demanding that the shortfall in their salaries be made up with a tax hike on the people? In that case, they shouldn't have a voice.
 
No...what you are really saying is that you want government to have complete control....and that they workers should have no voice. Very anti-american values.

So you agree that privatization is the answer? It allows unions to exist with collective bargaining power, and it ends the corrupt circle of politician pandering to the union, the union giving them money, and the politician giving the wages and benefits once elected? You agree that this is corrupt, correct?

Tim-
 
the employees are agents of the government
it is the representative bodies that form the government
here is a real life - and possibly surprising reality - to demonstrate the difference

the police
they do not work for you
they work for the government

So, that, "serve and protect", part means, what, exactly?

Police and firemen are public servants. They are paid with tax money. So, yes, they ultimately work for us.
 
So to summarize, to close the current fiscal period's deficit, they need to refinance the debt by 03/16.

To refinance $165 million of debt that is due 5/1/2011, the funds must be transferred by 3/16 into the bond security and redemption fund (BSRF).

It takes 2-3 weeks to do this...

It has taken 2 weeks in one case and typically 2-3 weeks. It could be expedited and, given the far more complex and far larger financial transactions that have been resolved during weekends during the financial crisis, an expedited approach modeled after those transactions suggests that it could be completed much sooner than 2 weeks if the effort is sufficiently urgent. I will concede that if the state chooses to pursue a "business-as-usual" approach, then one might only have a few days in which to adopt the legislation. Again, as noted previously, the legislation is not of a magnitude likely to break the impasse over a lack of quorum.

While the rest of the debt could be refinanced sometime in the future, it won't be in time to close the current deficit.

Other approaches could be used e.g., emergency spending recissions (targeted or across-the-board, the latter being the easiest to achieve as the sacrifice is spread widely). Refinancing savings are not the only way deficits can be closed.

Now, do they need some longer term solutions? Absolutely. Walker is unveiling his budget today, I think. So, they'll be plenty more for you to yell about shortly. :)

I will be interested in seeing what it contains, especially structural reforms aimed at addressing the pension and health benefits imbalances.
 
with all the money your cronies are throwing into the state, you should see a bigger discrepancy.

I'm pretty comfortable with Walkers long term viability.

Sure thing.
And how many right wingers predicted here over the last two weeks that the public opinion polls would show the people solidly in favor of Walker and his union busting? talk about moving the goal posts.
 
So, that, "serve and protect", part means, what, exactly?

Police and firemen are public servants. They are paid with tax money. So, yes, they ultimately work for us.

key word, "ultimately" work for us
after first going thru the government to see if it is ok to serve your interests
they are not the "government"
they are an agent of the government
nuanced distinction, i admit ... but it IS there
 
So you agree that privatization is the answer? It allows unions to exist with collective bargaining power, and it ends the corrupt circle of politician pandering to the union, the union giving them money, and the politician giving the wages and benefits once elected? You agree that this is corrupt, correct?

Tim-

You have very little understanding of our political process if you think what you wrote has any basis in reality. Especially in light of the activist decision in "Citizen's United" that essentially allows corporations to have unlimited ability to contribute to political candidates.
How does "privatization" "End the corrupt cycle of political pandering"? If anything, it increases it.
I would much rather individual workers have a voice in political pandering than corporations.....
 
key word, "ultimately" work for us
after first going thru the government to see if it is ok to serve your interests
they are not the "government"
they are an agent of the government
nuanced distinction, i admit ... but it IS there

IOW, they work for us? Thank you for admitting that.
 
So, that, "serve and protect", part means, what, exactly?

Police and firemen are public servants. They are paid with tax money. So, yes, they ultimately work for us.

It also says to defend this country from all threats foriegn and domestic.
 
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