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Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

LookingGlass said:
Gun control simply limits access for citizens to get legal weapons. A criminal, as a rule, doesn't fill out paperwork in order to acquire a firearm.
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There was a study that found that something like 49% of guns used in violent crime had been legally purchased and local(I think this was in Mass). When attempts have been made to make reporting of lost or stolen guns compulsory, the NRA and pro-gun people have opposed it. They've also made it hard to create tracing systems on guns. So I don't feel bad if people who pay for membership in these groups have a hard time filling out paperwork. :shrug:
 
I have a mixed view on gun control in general.

I ran across this link the other day, and I thought it brought up some interesting points.

PolitiFact | Frank Lautenberg says U.S. has 9,500 gun murders a year, compared to 200 or less in other nations

I think this fact check leaves out a few things that I think make a huge difference in this debate.

Another thing this leaves out is the gun culture that America has. Given our second amendment rights, firearms have always been prevalent. Because of this, I believe a gun ban would be ineffective in the same way I find prohibition to be ineffective. Gun ownership is engrained so deeply into our national identity. Any time you try to take it away, it punishes adults by not allowing them to make personal choices, while putting money into the pockets of criminals.

Essentially I am against guns and do believe they lead to violence in general, but due to the prevalent gun culture in America, personal gun ownership has proven to be beneficial to the average citizen.
 
Viktyr Korimir said:
They're the same age as professional soldiers. Once a person becomes an adult, we have to accept that they are responsible for their own behavior.
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If they have the same training as professional soldiers, I'm cool with it. But having every 18-19 yr old on campus carry a piece in his/her backpack is enough to make me wary. The professors and administrators, sure... but again, there should be a licensing process for concealed weapons that assures everyone who carries one knows how to use it.
 
I know people are just going to call me a dirty liberal hippie who hates America, and most likely has a vagina for thinking this but... Am I the only one who thinks violence can't be solved by the timeless American problem solver, more guns? Maybe we need to raise awareness of the precursors of these violent tendencies. Maybe we need to educate parents and teachers on paying more attention to their children and students. Better yet we should require such competence in both. Maybe we need to put more effort into studying our prisoners so we can better learn more about what causes this behavior, and how to stop this behavior before it starts.

And regarding violent crimes done by the more right-minded... Maybe we should put more focus into our education system to make choices other than crime more accessible to the lower class, and maybe we should make inner-city schools that look less like fortresses, it's not very good for the learning environment. Maybe we should put more effort into rehabilitating communities, so that crime and violence aren't a constant environment for young minds. Or maybe we just need more guns.
 
Kandahar said:
Have you guys been on a college campus recently? Specifically a non-commuter school with a large student population living on campus? Maybe this comes as a shock to some people, but college students like to drink alcohol...a lot. And at that age, they're often relatively new to alcohol and don't know their limits. Do you really want people to have guns in close proximity after they've just consumed 8 beers and are acting belligerent?
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Relatively new? Yeah...I guess vs a 51 year old they would be "relatively new". I personally don't know of a single kid that hasn't drank alcohol by the time they are 16-17 years old.

Now be that as it may, yes college's are notorious for partying and drinking. But irregardless of that they are still adults. With all the rights there of. What is actually idiotic about this is that at one point in time high schoolers use to bring guns to school every single day. No one even looked twice or cared.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Relatively new? Yeah...I guess vs a 51 year old they would be "relatively new". I personally don't know of a single kid that hasn't drank alcohol by the time they are 16-17 years old.
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I never drank until college. Neither did most of my friends...

Kal'Stang said:
Now be that as it may, yes college's are notorious for partying and drinking. But irregardless of that they are still adults. With all the rights there of.
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I'm not suggesting they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. Just don't bring it on campus.

Kal'Stang said:
What is actually idiotic about this is that at one point in time high schoolers use to bring guns to school every single day. No one even looked twice or cared.
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Nor would I (at least for rural high schools). That's a completely different situation than a campus atmosphere where students regularly party and get drunk.
 
Mr. Invisible said:
The 18 year old with a missile in a combat zone can be trusted because he's had training.
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Yet you would trust that same person with liquor. That doesn't follow since liquor kills more people then firearms.
 
DiAnna said:
If they have the same training as professional soldiers, I'm cool with it. But having every 18-19 yr old on campus carry a piece in his/her backpack is enough to make me wary. The professors and administrators, sure... but again, there should be a licensing process for concealed weapons that assures everyone who carries one knows how to use it.
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DiAnna.....you have to be 21 to perches a pistol. That's federal law.
 
Black Hills State has already banned liquor from it's property. There are no drunken parties here. So, why not allow firearms? Same with our tech schools who don't even have dorms, there's no reason to ban firearms.
 
Jerry said:
DiAnna.....you have to be 21 to perches a pistol. That's federal law.
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It is, but state police are not required to enforce it. For example: in my state it is legal to purchase a pistol if you are 18 or older, but you can only posses it in your home or place of business or on property owned by you until age 21.

Although, there is a loophole where you can keep a handgun in your car without a concealed weapons permit as long as you can claim you were taking it with you for the sake of an outdoor activity (such as hiking, camping, etc.) where you might need personal protection.
 
Jerry said:
Yet you would trust that same person with liquor. That doesn't follow since liquor kills more people then firearms.
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Typically it takes longer to do so than a gun.

Plus, it's very hard to kill someone else with liquor without their consent.
 
Jerry said:
Black Hills State has already banned liquor from it's property. There are no drunken parties here. So, why not allow firearms? Same with our tech schools who don't even have dorms, there's no reason to ban firearms.
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Well, on a college like that maybe it wouldn't be a problem. I'm not saying there needs to be a blanket ban on guns on all college campuses. It makes more sense to let the colleges each set their own rules about guns, because they have different campus lifestyles. On the campuses of large universities where a lot of students reside, there's almost invariably going to be alcohol (unless it's a very conservative/religious school). On those campuses, it would be safer if belligerent drunks didn't have guns in their pockets.
 
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TheBook said:
It is, but state police are not required to enforce it. For example: in my state it is legal to purchase a pistol if you are 18 or older, but you can only posses it in your home or place of business or on property owned by you until age 21.

Although, there is a loophole where you can keep a handgun in your car without a concealed weapons permit as long as you can claim you were taking it with you for the sake of an outdoor activity (such as hiking, camping, etc.) where you might need personal protection.
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Wow, that's news to me.
 
TheBook said:
Typically it takes longer to do so than a gun.
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It take less time to buy liquor then to buy a pistol. I know because I've don both. In fact in the time it takes to buy a pistol one can drink their 5th and get in the car.

TheBook said:
Plus, it's very hard to kill someone else with liquor without their consent.
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Ask the victim of a drunk driver that and let's see their response.
 
Kandahar said:
Well, on a college like that maybe it wouldn't be a problem. I'm not saying there needs to be a blanket ban on guns on all college campuses. It makes more sense to let the colleges each set their own rules about guns, because they have different campus lifestyles. On the campuses of large universities where a lot of students reside, there's almost invariably going to be alcohol (unless it's a very conservative/religious school). On those campuses, it would be safer if belligerent drunks didn't have guns in their pockets.
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The belligerent drunks are the problem, not the CCW holders.

Also, regarding proper training, keep in mind that a number of those students have the Military Science minor (an optional path to become an officer), and believe me that counts.
 
Jerry said:
Wow, that's news to me.
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Many states laws mimic federal laws in cases like these, I only know because I went through the process of buying one recently, and because a friend of mine is in law school and mentioned that interesting tidbit.

State laws have all kinds of funky stuff going on. For instance, while it is illegal to consume alcohol in my state if you are under the age of 21 there is an exception if it is at home under parent supervision, or if performed by a recognized church official.

As it turns out, anyone who is an "Ordained Minister" can (arguably) be counted as a recognized church official. A few years back I had a girlfriend who was an ordained minister, meaning that she was legally allowed to hold house parties, as long as she was the one serving the alcohol.
 
Jerry said:
The belligerent drunks are the problem, not the CCW holders.
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It doesn't really matter who the problem is, the point is that a campus full of alcohol and guns is a tragedy waiting to happen. If you view the alcohol (rather than the guns) as being the primary problem and know of a way to prevent college students who want to drink from drinking, let's deal with that first. THEN maybe we can talk about having guns on campus.

Jerry said:
Also, regarding proper training, keep in mind that a number of those students have the Military Science minor (an optional path to become an officer), and believe me that counts.
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I don't know much about proper training, but in any case it's irrelevant to my objection. The reason I'm opposed to guns on most residential campuses is the same reason that I don't think people should be allowed to bring a gun into a bar or club: the alcohol.
 
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Jerry said:
Ask the victim of a drunk driver that and let's see their response.
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*shrug* My mother was killed by a drunk driver. That doesn't change the fact that the weapon used to kill her was a car, not liquor.

I still argue that guns are more inherently dangerous than alcohol, even if it is simply because there are more steps from A to B (i.e. Getting Drunk, Deciding to Drive, Smashing into someone vs. Not treating a weapon with the respect it deserves.)

There's also the whole thing of having to pass a test to get a car, the murder weapon in that example. While it may not be a particularly difficult one, it is still more than is required to obtain a handgun.

Even though driving deaths are more common than firearm deaths, that can be explained by widespread daily use. I'm sure if a majority portion of the population used handguns daily for extended periods of time, there would be more gun related death than vehicle ones.
 
Kandahar said:
I never drank until college. Neither did most of my friends...



I'm not suggesting they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. Just don't bring it on campus.



Nor would I (at least for rural high schools). That's a completely different situation than a campus atmosphere where students regularly party and get drunk.
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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed, unless there's a chance alcoholic beverages will ever be in vicinity.
 
Barbbtx said:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed, unless there's a chance alcoholic beverages will ever be in vicinity.
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What would you propose as more constitutional limitations? Or should we be allowed to open-carry anywhere?
 
Good for TX. Making Schools a Gun free zone is ridiculous. It just the makes the Students easier targets for Criminals. The carnage of recent schools shooting could have been reduce if the people on the campus had the ability to return fire.
 
TheBook said:
What would you propose as more constitutional limitations? Or should we be allowed to open-carry anywhere?
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Yes we should.
 
Kandahar said:
The reason I'm opposed to guns on most residential campuses is the same reason that
I don't think people should be allowed to bring a gun into a bar or club: the alcohol.
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Gun, bar, club, campuses, car and alcohol don't kill people.
People kill people.

There are some country where guns are illegal N' prohibited.
But still people kill people there using knife or whatever they got.

We human are a killing machine. :duel

TheBook said:
I still argue that guns are more inherently dangerous than alcohol
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Alcohol is only dangerous when you the individual misuse it excessively.
Gun are dangerous only if you the individual decide to pull the trigger N' kill someone.

And if someone truly want you dead.. gun or no gun...
they'll seek a way to kill you some how.
 
Barbbtx said:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed, unless there's a chance alcoholic beverages will ever be in vicinity.
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Yep, Broseph Brosephson of Kappa Kappa Kappa is quite the patriot. He can easily fight state oppression with his musket while showing his frat brothers how much beer he can chug at the same time. :roll:
 
DiAnna said:
If they have the same training as professional soldiers, I'm cool with it.
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I'm of the opinion that everyone should be trained in the safe handling and use of weapons. As a mandatory class in high school.

DiAnna said:
But having every 18-19 yr old on campus carry a piece in his/her backpack is enough to make me wary. The professors and administrators, sure... but again, there should be a licensing process for concealed weapons that assures everyone who carries one knows how to use it.
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Even that would be a step in the right direction; as it stands now, professional academics are disarmed the same as students.

And I would point out that these 18 and 19 year olds are adults; we cannot deny them their rights as adults.
 
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