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Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

Oh an edit... Well thanks, it would be helpful if you could show me where in this document your case is make that would be great...

there is an index
you want the school calendar and salary schedule

sorry for hitting the wrong contract link - that was my error -- but now you have the correct one.
 
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As I understand it, they have agreed to all the financial concessions in Walker's bill and this is entirely about the public worker's rights to negotiate with their employer. Since this has nothing to do with balancing the budget, why is Walker so set on breaking the union?

If they have agreed, where is their press release? They haven't agreed to jack ****. It's all rhetoric at this point. And what is wrong with his other demand? --That any raise larger than the CPI must be voted on by taxpayers? Oooooooooo, trying to break the unions!!! In fairness, he also wants to take away their union right to negotiate benefits. Can't blame him for that. Taxpayers are going freakin' broke.

What I don't understand is that the governor gave notice that as of March 16th their contract wouldn't be valid (all legal, and as per contract terms, btw). So I don't see what difference it makes....next contract? Just don't give them these things. I must be missing something...anyone know? Please, no rhetoric as an answer-- I'm trying to actually LEARN something.
 
If they have agreed, where is their press release? They haven't agreed to jack ****.

Walker rejects unions

MADISON — Gov. Scott Walker ignored an offer of financial concessions by state and local public employees Saturday, calling once again for Democratic senators to stop “shirking their responsibilities” and return from Illinois to vote on his budget bill.

A sizable contingent of Walker supporters joined the chaotic throng outside the Capitol, swelling the crowd above Friday’s size, which was estimated at almost 70,000.

Wisconsin public employees have agreed to the financial concessions pushed by the governor in exchange for retaining their basic organizing rights, Democratic Sen. Jon Erpenbach said in a statement released Saturday.

All they want is their basic organizing rights. Why is Walker so set on taking them away if this is only about balancing the state budget?
 
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Perhaps you missed where I quoted the contract on work days? Go back and read it.




1. A teacher who is employed after school is recessed for the summer and before school
commences in the fall, both relative to the school calendar as set forth in this Agreement at
his/her regular assignment is compensated by prorating his/her contractual salary from the prior
school year for each hour of such employment.

2. Any work performed in the summer which is an extension of work performed during the school
year, and which by its very nature, cannot be completed by the end of the school year will be
compensated as outlined in paragraph 1 above.


I found this. :shrug:


Seems that if the school year can not be completed due to other teachers pretending to be "sick", then they will be compensated for extra time, over the normal schedule at a pro-rated amount


You really don't have to be so reluctant here. If you truly have the information, prove me wrong, quote the document.
 
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As I understand it, they have agreed to all the financial concessions in Walker's bill and this is entirely about the public worker's rights to negotiate with their employer. Since this has nothing to do with balancing the budget, why is Walker so set on breaking the union?

The most logical conclusion? So, the state of Wisconsin will not have the need to go through this same dog and phony show in a continual progressive loop every time the budget needs adjusting, as the PEOPLE do run the state, not a handful of UNION thugs as much as as the communist ANDY STERN and his "workers of the world" unite mentality propagandize. The people are not under the thumb nail of these THUGS. This entire thing is being manipulated for political purposes. Civility? Right..err...left............it appears the Prez simply does not like the Republicans riding along side him in the front seat, this is the second STATE Government where he has no business sticking his Federal Nose that he has openly sided with the opposition against the PEOPLE, First Az., Now Wisconsin. What are We the People to conclude.....Vote the way the Prez wants or I will send my brown shirts to visit?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSllsTLkBsw
 
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Good. Public employees shouldn't be allowed to unionize in the first place. Oh, BTW liberal's hero FDR made it illegal.


j-mac

That's nonsense j. Just like in the private sector, both sides can negotiate. No one has a gun held to their heads. Both can fight to win their position. The public sector is no different. But I have seen this talking point repeated a lot this weekend. Do they send out a memo? ;)
 
I found this. :shrug:


Seems that if the school year can not be completed due to other teachers pretending to be "sick", then they will be compensated for extra time, over the normal schedule.


You really don't have to be so reluctant here. You have the information, prove me wrong, quote the document.

No. You are confusing SUMMER SCHOOL with the REGULAR SCHOOL year.

I gave you the language on the calendar and the contract gives you the annual salary. It is just as how I described it. The work is ALWAYS completed as I said it is and the contract calls for 194 days in return for the annual salary. The only possible way this could be in jeopardy would be if this stoppage lasted for more days than are available on the calendar where school is not now scheduled.

In the early 1970's we were on strike for six weeks and made up days into July. I remember it well since it was my birthday and i was working.

So far, they missed just a few days, less than one week. Come back and voice your concerns in three months and then you might have a point.
 
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If they have agreed, where is their press release? They haven't agreed to jack ****. It's all rhetoric at this point. And what is wrong with his other demand? --That any raise larger than the CPI must be voted on by taxpayers? Oooooooooo, trying to break the unions!!! In fairness, he also wants to take away their union right to negotiate benefits. Can't blame him for that. Taxpayers are going freakin' broke.

What I don't understand is that the governor gave notice that as of March 16th their contract wouldn't be valid (all legal, and as per contract terms, btw). So I don't see what difference it makes....next contract? Just don't give them these things. I must be missing something...anyone know? Please, no rhetoric as an answer-- I'm trying to actually LEARN something.

then do some reading maggie......they HAVE agreed to the financial concessions. he want to take aways their rights, NOT save the state. this has very little to do with the budget.
 
The most logical conclusion? So, the state of Wisconsin will not have the need to go through this same dog and phony show in a continual progressive loop every time the budget needs adjusting, as the PEOPLE do run the state, not a handful of UNION thugs as much as as the communist ANDY STERN and his "workers of the world" unite mentality propagandize. The people are not under the thumb nail of these THUGS. This entire thing is being manipulated for political purposes. Civility? Right..err...left............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSllsTLkBsw

Then Walker should be clear on what he is doing. He should stop pretending that this is about "balancing the budget" and indicate that he wishes to strip state employess of their basic organizing rights.
 
No. You are confusing SUMMER SCHOOL with the REGULAR SCHOOL year.

I gave you the language on the calendar and the contract gives you the annual salary. It is just as how I described it.



Incorrect. Read it again.



1. A teacher who is employed after school is recessed for the summer and before school
commences in the fall, both relative to the school calendar as set forth in this Agreement at
his/her regular assignment is compensated by prorating his/her contractual salary from the prior
school year for each hour of such employment.


1.Any work performed in the summer which is an extension of work performed during the school
year, and which by its very nature, cannot be completed by the end of the school year
will be
compensated as outlined in paragraph 1 above.


Not summer school, which is I believe an "extra-duty" as per your document.


per your document":

3. Teachers who will be employed after school is recessed for the summer and before school
commences in the fall to work with students with disabilities in vocational settings on site in the
regular summer school session shall be paid extended contract.


This is not the same scenario I previously quoted.
 
then do some reading maggie......they HAVE agreed to the financial concessions. he want to take aways their rights, NOT save the state. this has very little to do with the budget.

Where's a link to a union press release or any union document that indicates that? Without that, it's all puffery.
 
Then Walker should be clear on what he is doing. He should stop pretending that this is about "balancing the budget" and indicate that he wishes to strip state employess of their basic organizing rights.

If its NOT PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE and he has not stated his position...by what stroke of logic and lack of knowledge did you address the topic? Geeze......perhaps a little more CRITICAL THINKING? Like, where do you get the idea that its a basic right for a public service employee to have access to collective bargaining, when they work for THE GOVERNMENT not a private sector employee...just how do you negotiate with an act of Legislation? No right to organize is being taken away, if it is demonstrate the language in this law that describes as much. What the law clearly states is the fact that now Wisconsin Public Employees will have the fundamental right of CHOICE and not be forced in a most fascist manner to PAY TO PLAY.
 
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Not summer school, which is I believe an "extra-duty" as per your document.

the important port to note, Rev, is that it says "which by its very nature, cannot be completed by the end of the school year". If the reason it doesn't get completed is due to something outside the nature of the work itself, there would be no extra compensation. If the work is something that could not be completed during the regular school year due to the nature of the work, it would require compensation.
 
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teh important poar tto note, Rev, is that it says "which by its very nature, cannot be completed by the end of the school year". If the reason it doesn't get completed is due to something outside the nature of the work itself, there would be no xtra compensation. If the work is something that could not be completed during teh regular school year due to the nature of t ehwork, it would require compensation.



40% of the teachers lied and stated they would be sick. The ones that didn't won't be compensated? I like your reasoning, but do not see it in this document at all. It's rather vague on the topic open to interpretation.
 
40% of the teachers lied and stated they would be sick. The ones that didn't won't be compensated? I like your reasoning, but do not see it in this document at all. It's rather vague on the topic open to interpretation.

Even if they were sick or claimed to be sick, it wouldn't be "the very nature of the work" that led to it requiring extra time to complete. That "which by its very nature" means that the work itself has to be the reason for the extension.
 
Walker rejects unions



All they want is their basic organizing rights. Why is Walker so set on taking them away if this is only about balancing the state budget?


so they agreed to concede the financial provisions for this contract time period alone eh? And want to retain their ability to get it back later? Not much of a concession if you ask me.

Tell me why a government employee needs a union in the first place? Can you?


j-mac
 
Read the language that you claim is the key to being paid extra

1. A teacher who is employed after school is recessed for the summer and before school
commences in the fall,


If the 194 days are not yet gotten in, THERE WILL BE NO RECESS FOR THE SUMMER. The School year is merely rearranged, the days gotten in to the 194 required number and only then is school recessed and the language you are citing for exra pay then kicks in.

I have taught in July to make up the days and that was still part of the regular school year. It was NOT summer school and we had to get in the state mandated required days. That is how it works and is nothing new or special.
 
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Read the language that you claim is the key to being paid extra

1. A teacher who is employed after school is recessed for the summer and before school
commences in the fall,


If the 194 days are not yet gotten in, THERE WILL BE NO RECESS FOR HE SUMMER. The School year is merely rearranged, the days gotten in to the 194 required number and only then is school recessed and the language you are citing for exra pay then kicks in.




Read it again, one defines a situation where school is recessed and another where things required are not met, and then they must go into the summer, compensated at a pro-rated rate.
 
Even if they were sick or claimed to be sick, it wouldn't be "the very nature of the work" that led to it requiring extra time to complete. That "which by its very nature" means that the work itself has to be the reason for the extension.



Do you think these teachers expect to work into the summer without being paid more? The language is ambiguous...
 
Do you think these teachers expect to work into the summer without being paid more? The language is ambiguous...

I think that teachers who take certain actions such as striking or "sick-outs" expect there to be some extra work to take care of upon return.

Of course, what they expect and what is the reality of that wording may be totally different. That wording means that they won't get extra pay if the reason the work extends into summer is not intrinsically caused by the nature of the work itself.
 
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I think that teachers who take certain actions such as striking or "sick-outs" expect there to be some extra work to take care of upon return.



this is the paragraph in question"


2. Any work performed in the summer which is an extension of work performed during the school
year, and which by its very nature, cannot be completed by the end of the school year will be
compensated as outlined in paragraph 1 above.


So can a teacher who did not lie and participate in a sick out, be compensated under this point?
 
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