Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

MaggieD · Feb 21, 2011

haymarket said:
I took my name from the crusade for labor rights in Chicago and the unfortunate event you mentioned is but a small part of it. If you go to Chicago today, there is a memorial to the event. A Jewish/German cemetery in a Chicago suburb also has a monument to the people who died fighting for labor rights.

Don't forget the eight policemen who were killed...one by a pipe bomb thrown by a demonstrator...

ReverendHellh0und · Feb 21, 2011

MaggieD said:
Don't forget the eight policemen who were killed...one by a pipe bomb thrown by a demonstrator...

It was a terrorist act, that is now celebrated as a labor protest. Yes, where is the statue for the 8 policemen killed by this domestic terrorist attack.

MaggieD · Feb 21, 2011

liblady said:
the union has said they would compromise, it's walker who is rejecting them. he wants to bust the unions, period. that's what this is about. they've agreed to the monetary terms.

Where is an official press release from the union, then? They have agreed to nothing except lip service.

Erod · Feb 21, 2011

haymarket said:
No they will not. If you look at any contract of a Wisconsin public school teacher you will see that they have a yearly salary which does not change and they must put in the required days. They will put in all those days. It is those days of work they are paid for by contract.

I was involved in four different labor stoppages during my 33 years as a teacher. Once we were out for six weeks. Not one child missed one day of state mandated instruction that year. Nor did any child miss any days of instruction in the other labor stoppages. It merely was a shuffling of days and there are plenty available for that purpose.

And while you were skipping out on work for six weeks, what did working mothers do with their kids for those six weeks?

And explain this: how can almost 1/3 of Milwaukee teachers afford to send their kids to private schools if they have it so bad?

29.4% Of Milwaukee public school teachers send their own children to private schools

The link is old, but I'd bet that number has gone up if anything.

Erod · Feb 21, 2011

MaggieD said:
Where is an official press release from the union, then? They have agreed to nothing except lip service.

The head of the union actually said that the teachers should go back to work. Translation: the polls show that Wisconsin folks aren't behind us, so we'd better get back in the classroom pronto.

MaggieD · Feb 21, 2011

Erod said:
The head of the union actually said that the teachers should go back to work. Translation: the polls show that Wisconsin folks aren't behind us, so we'd better get back in the classroom pronto.

Any well-informed Wisconsinite isn't behind them. Property taxes are breaking the backs of working people throughout the state. Their pension deals and health insurance benefits are sweeter than any private company. All financed at taxpayer expense. I hope they are being their own worst enemy as they shine a bright light on their ridiculous defined benefit plans.

Iron River · Feb 21, 2011

No child will be denied one hour of education. There is no "punishment".

What makes you think that the teachers who skipped school all last week will put in four extra days at the end of the year? Some of the teachers took their kids to the capital building and the kids were not having fun. They had no idea why they were standing around all day.

The teachers’ union is telling them to be at work tomorrow and let the bused in union thugs keep the protests going.

Your right donc it’s “Barry” Soetoro but I spell it both ways to confuse liberals who can’t figure things out without a prompter.

haymarket · Feb 21, 2011

ReverendHellh0und said:
It was a terrorist act, that is now celebrated as a labor protest. Yes, where is the statue for the 8 policemen killed by this domestic terrorist attack.

There was one outside of the Chicago police Museum. But it kept getting vandalized. I think they either moved it inside or into storage.

This books discusses all the various statues and monuments

http://www.amazon.com/Death-Haymark...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1298316592&sr=1-1

it is quite excellent and the best source available on the entire affair.

I'm sure you can link me to this claim.

I have posted the links in some of the Wisconsin threads. But rather than me be accused of finding a particular contract which agrees with me, all you have to do is google the name of any Wisconsin city and the teacher contract and you can research it for yourself. Its quite standard boilerplate language all over America. Teachers are paid a yearly salary and in return work a required number of days.

ReverendHellh0und · Feb 21, 2011

haymarket said:
There was one outside of the Chicago police Museum. But it kept getting vandalized. I think they either moved it inside or into storage.

I have posted the links in some of the Wisconsin threads. But rather than me be accused of finding a particular contract which agrees with me, all you have to do is google the name of any Wisconsin city and the teacher contract and you can research it for yourself. Its quite standard boilerplate language all over America. Teachers are paid a yearly salary and in return work a required number of days.

if it's that easy, you could then back up your claim. :shrug:

Notice in bold. in most cases, sick days are counted as work days, meaning the school is not technically closed, therefore, this is a paid sick day, meaning that if they have to work into the summer they got paid extra...

* Three months off a year.
* Retirement Benefits.
* Paid Sick Leave.
* Paid health, dental, and vision insurance.
* Increase in Salary for advanced degrees and years of service.
* Extra income for tutoring, summer school, and extra duty assignments.
* Tenure or protection against arbitrary layoffs.

Read more at Suite101: Teacher Employee Benefits While Working and in Retirement Teacher Employee Benefits While Working and in Retirement

since the school is not technically closed and these folks are "sick", this summer would be considered "extra duty"... .

Please provide links to the contrary. thanks.

haymarket · Feb 21, 2011

Iron River said:
What makes you think that the teachers who skipped school all last week will put in four extra days at the end of the year? Some of the teachers took their kids to the capital building and the kids were not having fun. They had no idea why they were standing around all day.

.

It is standard. Its a matter of both state law and the contract conditions. This is nothing new or controversial.

haymarket · Feb 21, 2011

Rev
her is but one

http://www.madisonteachers.org/ssa/School Security Asst CBA 2008-2010.pdf

All you have to do is read it - I will NOT do that for you. But for this one you should look on pages 6 - 8 for both the annual salary and the number of workdays. You will find it as I have described. Again, this is standard practice in a contract for teachers.

And you can then google any Wisconsin city of your choice along with teachers contract and do even more research.

This is nothing new. Teachers get one annual salary and work a defined number of days. In case of missed days for the system, they are placed elsewhere on the calendar. This is standard operating procedure for school districts.

since the school is not technically closed and these folks are "sick", this summer would be considered "extra duty"... .

No it would not. Never has been either.

j-mac · Feb 21, 2011

Erod said:
The head of the union actually said that the teachers should go back to work. Translation: the polls show that Wisconsin folks aren't behind us, so we'd better get back in the classroom pronto.

Absolutely...See the thing is that Americans and Wisconsin residents are growing awfully tired of this elite entitlement attitude from people who are failing at their jobs to teach.

Our schools are not getting the job done equitably or properly. We have a real serious problem in this nation when those in charge of our children's education just leave that business to march in favor of breaking the states budget. Care for the children? Yeah, not so much. I have yet to see someone answer why it is so wrong that these teachers, and other government employees refuse to contribute to their HC, and retirement.

If these teachers were doing such a bang up job, it may not be the question it is today.

j-mac

liblady · Feb 21, 2011

j-mac said:
Absolutely...See the thing is that Americans and Wisconsin residents are growing awfully tired of this elite entitlement attitude from people who are failing at their jobs to teach.

Our schools are not getting the job done equitably or properly. We have a real serious problem in this nation when those in charge of our children's education just leave that business to march in favor of breaking the states budget. Care for the children? Yeah, not so much. I have yet to see someone answer why it is so wrong that these teachers, and other government employees refuse to contribute to their HC, and retirement.

If these teachers were doing such a bang up job, it may not be the question it is today.

j-mac

wisconsin has pretty good schools overall. and it's not that the teachers are refusing to pay for some of their insurance, they are refusing to give up their bargaining rights. let's not misunderstand this, walker's aim is to bust the unions.

haymarket · Feb 21, 2011

from Maggie

Property taxes are breaking the backs of working people throughout the state.

If you want to get rid of property taxes, I am all with you. In fact, I have been a delegate to many AFT national conventions where the subject of the evils of the property tax system were discussed and there is overwhelming support within the educational community to get rid of them.

So we have some common ground.

Erod · Feb 21, 2011

j-mac said:
Absolutely...See the thing is that Americans and Wisconsin residents are growing awfully tired of this elite entitlement attitude from people who are failing at their jobs to teach.

Our schools are not getting the job done equitably or properly. We have a real serious problem in this nation when those in charge of our children's education just leave that business to march in favor of breaking the states budget. Care for the children? Yeah, not so much. I have yet to see someone answer why it is so wrong that these teachers, and other government employees refuse to contribute to their HC, and retirement.

If these teachers were doing such a bang up job, it may not be the question it is today.

j-mac

And.....this clash might just end up being the "Tunisia" for many more clashes to come. Finally, the American people have a a person in Walker that is taking on the union to its face.

I think the Wisconsin teachers union is finding out that they have limited support at best, even in their own blue state. Many of those protesting aren't even from Wisconsin.

This could be the precipice of some serious union clashes to come, and much like Gaddafi and Ahmedenijad, the unions won't leave a bullet in the chamber the rest of the way. The unions will be fighting for their very existence.

Or so I hope.

ReverendHellh0und · Feb 21, 2011

haymarket said:
Rev
her is but one

All you have to do is read it - I will NOT do that for you. But for this one you should look on pages 6 - 8 for both the annual salary and the number of workdays. You will find it as I have described. Again, this is standard practice in a contract for teachers.

And you can then google any Wisconsin city of your choice along with teachers contract and do even more research.

This is nothing new. Teachers get one annual salary and work a defined number of days. In case of missed days for the system, they are placed elsewhere on the calendar. This is standard operating procedure for school districts.

No it would not. Never has been either.

uhm did you read your own link?

governing members of the
School Security Assistants
Collective Bargaining Unit

The Board of Education recognizes Madison Teachers as the exclusive collective bargaining
representative for all regular full-time and regular part-time school security assistants (SSAs)
employed by the Madison Metropolitan School District, but excluding managerial, supervisory,
confidential, substitute, temporary and all other employees.

this is for the security guards. :doh

Oh and they get paid extra if its over 200 days as far as I can see. :lol:

Erod · Feb 21, 2011

liblady said:
wisconsin has pretty good schools overall. and it's not that the teachers are refusing to pay for some of their insurance, they are refusing to give up their bargaining rights. let's not misunderstand this, walker's aim is to bust the unions.

Or....might Walker be trying to give those teachers that don't want to be in the union a chance to save their $500-1000 union fees for other purposes?

j-mac · Feb 21, 2011

liblady said:
wisconsin has pretty good schools overall. and it's not that the teachers are refusing to pay for some of their insurance, they are refusing to give up their bargaining rights. let's not misunderstand this, walker's aim is to bust the unions.

Good. Public employees shouldn't be allowed to unionize in the first place. Oh, BTW liberal's hero FDR made it illegal.

j-mac

haymarket · Feb 21, 2011

from the Rev

uhm did you read your own link?

like I told you rev - the best thing for you to do is for you do your own research. You find your own contract. You read the parts you want to read. this is on you - not me. I taught for 33 years and had a contract each and every year. I helped negotiate contracts. I attended national conventions and was in working sessions on teacher contracts. I don't need the info. If you want it - I told you how to find it.

I suspect you DO NOT WANT IT.

I do not know why I am so big hearted

http://www.madisonteachers.org/teacherunit/Teacher CBA 09-11.pdf

it has the teacher salary schedule - which you will note is a yearly salary. It has the Yearly calendar

The school year shall be 192 days (38.4 weeks) and is delineated for teachers in their first year
in Madison as follows:

Those 192 days must be worked for the annual salary.

Gill · Feb 21, 2011

ReverendHellh0und said:
uhm did you read your own link?

governing members of the
School Security Assistants
Collective Bargaining Unit

this is for the security guards. :doh

Oh and they get paid extra if its over 200 days as far as I can see. :lol:

No wonder Haymarket has been posting numbers that don't match anyone elses....... :3oops:

He's been fighting for security guards instead of teachers. :lol:

ReverendHellh0und · Feb 21, 2011

haymarket said:
from the Rev

But like I told you rev - you do your own research. You find your own contract. You read the parts you want to read. this is on you - not me. I taught for 33 years and had a contract each and every year. I helped negotiate contracts. I attended national conventions and was in working sessions on teacher contracts. I don't need the info. If you want it - I told you how to find it.

I accept this concession. given your "33 years" this ought to be something easy for your to prove.... Just like when someone gets on me about things I know about, it's quite easy to hammer them with facts.

all you have shown, is that the security guards get 200 days in thier salary before they get overtime. :shrug:

I suspect you DO NOT WANT IT.

Please refrain from ad hominens.

CriticalThought · Feb 21, 2011

As I understand it, they have agreed to all the financial concessions in Walker's bill and this is entirely about the public worker's rights to negotiate with their employer. Since this has nothing to do with balancing the budget, why is Walker so set on breaking the union?

ReverendHellh0und · Feb 21, 2011

haymarket said:
from the Rev

But like I told you rev - you do your own research. You find your own contract. You read the parts you want to read. this is on you - not me. I taught for 33 years and had a contract each and every year. I helped negotiate contracts. I attended national conventions and was in working sessions on teacher contracts. I don't need the info. If you want it - I told you how to find it.

I suspect you DO NOT WANT IT.

I do not know why I am so big hearted

http://www.madisonteachers.org/teacherunit/Teacher CBA 09-11.pdf

Oh an edit... Well thanks, it would be helpful if you could show me where in this document your case is make that would be great...

liblady · Feb 21, 2011

CriticalThought said:
As I understand it, they have agreed to all the financial concessions in Walker's bill and this is entirely about the public worker's rights to negotiate with their employer. Since this has nothing to do with balancing the budget, why is Walker so set on breaking the union?

EXACTLY. walker is lying to the public.

Erod · Feb 21, 2011

CriticalThought said:
As I understand it, they have agreed to all the financial concessions in Walker's bill and this is entirely about the public worker's rights to negotiate with their employer. Since this has nothing to do with balancing the budget, why is Walker so set on breaking the union?

Why should state-employed people who are paid entirely by taxpayers and create no profit or revenue stream be allowed to have a union?

Do Wisconsin legislators belong to an organized labor union?

Wisconsin Governor to Missing Democrats: Do Your Job

MaggieD

ReverendHellh0und

I don't respect you.

MaggieD

Erod

Erod

MaggieD

Iron River

Active member

haymarket

ReverendHellh0und

I don't respect you.

haymarket

haymarket

j-mac

liblady

pirate lover

haymarket

Erod

ReverendHellh0und

I don't respect you.

Erod

j-mac

haymarket

Gill

ReverendHellh0und

I don't respect you.

CriticalThought

ReverendHellh0und

I don't respect you.

liblady

pirate lover

Erod